KRIEGER: Trades in offing for capitulating Rockies
By Dave Krieger, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published July 2, 2008 at 11:13 p.m.
Updated July 3, 2008 at 1:04 p.m.
Photo by David Zalubowski / Associated Press
Colorado's Garrett Atkins, right, is congratulated by Matt Holliday after belting a three-run homer against the Padres in July. Atkins and Holliday may be candidates to be traded in the offseason.
What should the Rockies do with their current roster?
Let's talk trades. The Rockies are.
If putting Jeff Francis on the disabled list Wednesday was not their white flag, it was pretty close. Francis could have continued to pitch through an inflamed shoulder, but the way he's pitching and the Rocks are playing, why risk it?
"If I was 9-4 instead of 3-7, I don't know if we'd be having this conversation," Francis admitted. "If I was being effective with pitches and getting people out, there wouldn't really be any concern. I could battle through it."
This is now a team with Mark Redman and Jorge De La Rosa holding down two of the five spots in the starting rotation. The unfathomably weak National League Worst still provides the illusion of contention, but let's be honest: it's not happening.
So here are the top candidates for this month's trading block: Closer Brian Fuentes, third baseman Garrett Atkins and left fielder Matt Holliday.
This is principally because all three are on a track for free agency - Fuentes after this season, Holliday after next season and Atkins after the following season.
"If we have a shot to stay in this, there's no reason to trade," Fuentes insisted. "I mean, you're still playing for this season. Let's not worry about next season or who you're going to get for me. Let's try to win. I think I can help this season probably more than anyone they're going to get."
The Rocks have not tried to sign Fuentes long term, which may be all you need to know. They've tried and failed with Atkins. He knows trade rumors are an inevitable result.
"If we're here and the Rockies want us, that's great," Atkins said. "If we're not, we understand that's the nature of the game, when you've got guys making pretty good money and your team's in last place. There's not too much you can do about it."
I am now operating on the assumption that Holliday, a close friend of Atkins, is in the same category. After he signed a two-year contract in January that takes him to free agency, the Rocks indicated they would try to clarify his long-term status sooner rather than later.
A cone of silence has since been dropped on the subject, which suggests to me the Rocks made their best offer - something on the order of $100 million - and Holliday and his agent, Scott Boras, turned it down, knowing his free-agent value to a big-market team in a year and a half could be twice that.
Holliday has every right to go after the most lucrative deal. In fact, his hiring Boras telegraphed that he would. By the same token, the Rocks have every right not to offer him a contract few mid- market teams could afford. I can't afford a Lamborghini. That's life.
So here are my odds on these three veterans being traded by the July 31 nonwaiver deadline, relevant because none of them would clear waivers to facilitate a trade after that date.
* Fuentes: 1-2. The veteran reliever is more likely to be traded than not. If he walks as a free agent this winter, the Rocks get a pair of draft picks in compensation, so they have to do better than that to make a deal. It says here that some contender - maybe the Rays, Marlins, Mets, Phillies, Yankees or Cubs - will make it worth the Rocks' while.
* Atkins: 2-1. Two facts would make this relatively easy for the Rocks despite Atkins' offensive credentials. One is the presence of ready replacements in Jeff Baker and Ian Stewart. The other is that Atkins is gone sooner or later anyway.
His three-run homer Wednesday night was well-timed. The Angels, Dodgers, Phillies, Rays, Marlins and Yankees could all use a corner infielder with power. Even the Twins might take a shot.
* Holliday: 4-1. Odds are against it before July 31, only because it would take quite a package - probably including a rotation-worthy starter, now or in the future, and top offensive player or prospect as well. Such a blockbuster might be easier to pull off in the relative calm of next winter.
The Rocks will wait most of the month to get other teams' best offers. If they suddenly reel off 10 in a row and climb back into the race, they can always step back and play the hand they've got, as Fuentes said.
But the state of their rotation suggests that's unlikely, and shutting down Francis when they didn't absolutely have to suggests they are beginning to look to the future, which only makes sense, given their record.
General manager Dan O'Dowd has not pulled the trigger on a major trade since the Jason Jennings deal a year and a half ago. By the end of this month, I'm guessing that streak will be over.
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July 3, 2008
12:36 a.m.
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Vulions writes:
Do what it takes to sign Atkins and Holliday...obviously if they want obsene money than there is nothing we can do about that...but at least try.
As far as Fuentes, trade him now! If we trade him by the deadline it will be two years too late in my mind.
Brian Fuentes = worst 3 time All Star ever.
July 3, 2008
5:43 a.m.
Suggest removal
RockiesWin writes:
Quit talking about Ian Stewart as a viable replacement. The dude is NOT even close to Atkins!!! He has so many holes in his swing. Sign Atkins and Holliday....we fans have supported you in bad times, now its time for ownership to pony up the dough!
BTW, if one leaves, both will leave as they are very tight friends.
July 3, 2008
6:11 a.m.
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dj80long writes:
If it's July, it must be time to blow up the team and start all over again.
July 3, 2008
7:17 a.m.
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GeeTee writes:
Kreiger -- why are you even making a living writing about baseball when you obviously know very little about it.
Trade Atkins when he is THREE YEARS from free agency?! What kind of GM would do that? Stewart is a AAA-level player AT BEST -- too many strikeouts. Atkins is one of the most under-rated players in baseball and we will not come close to getting his value in any trade.
And why blow up the team anyway? Trades and silly signings are NOT the answer, but if I remember correctly, you also supported the Avs signing Forsberg this past season and declared that would make the difference in the playoffs -- forgetting, of course, that we had that sissy goaltender.
July 3, 2008
7:29 a.m.
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sickandtired writes:
Gee, GeeTee - maybe because Atkins laughed in their face when they made him a long-term offer. Maybe because he told them he's gonna "Holliday" on them when the time comes.
Maybe because he's lazy. Maybe because the Rockies are within 1-2 games of being the worst team in baseball WITH him. Maybe because he's great with no one on base, but stinks when there is.
Maybe because both he and the club know he's gone when he's a FA, unless they pay him Yankeee/Red Sox money.
Maybe the Rockies figure they better at least get something for him while they can.
As far as the Avs getting Forsberg goes, signing him and Foote DID make a difference in the Avs making the playoffs and winning the first round. And it paid off financially for the Avs. And most Avs fans were thrilled to see Foppa back.
How many fannies does Atkins put in the seats?
July 3, 2008
7:47 a.m.
Suggest removal
fjv1026 writes:
We cannot let Holliday OR Atkins leave via free agency or even worse...trade. They are the corner stones to this franchise. Yes, get rid of Fuentes (well, most of the 'pen, really), force Helton to take a pay cut, and fire Hurdle and his inept coaching staff. THAT would be a step in the right direction.
July 3, 2008
8:25 a.m.
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athought writes:
fjv: Trade is MUCH BETTER than free agency. At least with a trade, you have a chance of getting decent value for the players you are giving up. Free agency just gets you off the hook for paying a player and nothing else. From your comment, you appear to be the guy or "fan" who just watch's SportsCenter highlights to see who hit a home run that day. Helton's pay is fine, Hurdle's staff built the team and did a fine job, and the bullpen got us into the playoffs and World Series last year (little to no hitting in the playoffs from the Rox). Please do the real fans a favor and learn more about the game. Baseball may be slowly returning back to the good ol' days where team chemistry and composition are of a factor. The Rox made the Series last year on a shoestring budget and young players. Tampa is looking to do the same this year. If more teams go back your way, we'll have Major League Steroidball again and nobody want's that. I can say nobody want's that as attendance and ratings are going upward now that teams can't just mishmash a bunch of high paid free agents and win anymore. Even the BoSox had to let things stew for a year or two before winning their first World Series this century.
July 3, 2008
8:53 a.m.
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RedSoxDave writes:
Dave, do you really think the Rays and the Yankees are in the market for a corner infielder with power? The Yankees have the best player in baseball at third, and a guy (Giambi) who has hit 18 HRs and batted in 52 runs at first. Hard to imagine them sitting either of their $20M+ corner infielders for a guy with 11 HRs and forty-some RBIs.
As for the Rays, last I checked (a minute ago), they have the top rookie in baseball at third, with fifteen HRs and 50 RBIs since he was called up in mid-April. Meanwhile at first Carlos Pena has the same number of homers as Atkins despite three weeks on the DL, coming on the heals of his 46 HR 122 RBI 2007 season.
So what exactly makes you think these AL East contenders are looking for corner infielders?
RedSoxDave
July 3, 2008
9:11 a.m.
Suggest removal
fastnloose writes:
Sickandtired,Atkins puts real baseball fans in the seats.Every year we hear of these great new prospects only to see them fizzle out(Stewart).Also,if Atkins is lazy,when he decides to hussle his numbers will be out of sight.I'm being sarcastic here.The only fire sale that needs to happen here,is Krieger to a local high school newspaper.
July 3, 2008
10:43 a.m.
Suggest removal
rickus writes:
Man, there must not be much out there in terms of decent story leads if Krieger joins the list of local columnists who are decrying the end of the Rockies season, IN JUNE! and only 8 games back! I guess there must of been several column inches that needed filling before press-time and tripe was all that could be found.
July 3, 2008
10:49 a.m.
Suggest removal
cj1030lee writes:
You all are wanting to traden fuentes, but not holliday and atkins. Trade holliday or atkin! Don't trade fuentes. The formula for winning baseball is pitching. Trade holliday or atkins and hook helton and cash in the deal for a solid #3 starter and a prospect. That way one of them will stay with the team, and management can pay them with helton's ridiculous salary. Holliday's or Atkins' number can easily be replaced with stewart or baker. Holliday had holes in his swing when he came up too, and aktins wasn't all that great in minors.
July 3, 2008
11:07 a.m.
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BoostHard writes:
Fuentes has to go.Too much money for not enough talent. As far as trading Holliday, it's not really up to us. If Holliday will not re-sign this winter, then we should get rid of him now. Keep Atkins, although it sounds like his future with the team is not long-term. Ian Stewart is still young, he has a lot to learn, but will be able to replace Atkins, maybe in a couple years. Seth Smith is the same, has the talent and the potential, but still has a lot to learn.
The team does need to do something this month! RS-- runs scored. Rocks have given up over 400 runs in the first half!!!! Thats unacceptable. We obviously need a starting pitcher!!!
July 3, 2008
11:38 a.m.
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BoostHard writes:
Traading Fuentes and possibly and infielder for a quality starting pitcher is an idea!!
25 year old RHP in Colorado Springs, Steven Register,
Kid has 14 saves, a very good strikeout to walk ratio. with an ERA just above 3.
Im not saying this kid can/will replace Fuentes, but he is still young and has been performing well.
July 3, 2008
12:20 p.m.
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Hambone writes:
Morons, Helton can't be forced to take a pay cut. The union would NEVER let that happen, just ask A-rod.
Morons, I watch as much Rockies baseball as almost anyone, and I understood that last year was a fluke. Yes. A fluke. Teams don't win like that, especially this one.
Stewart is not the only one that can play 3rd. Baker is already up in the bigs and has played awesome. If Atkins can be traded for a quality arm, do it.
Fuentes defenders, do you watch when he pitches. Every inning he puts guys on. It is amazing that he hasn't blown more saves already. Buchholtz is the best arm in teh bullpen, give him teh job until Corpas pulls his head out.
Finally get rid of Hurdle and Apodaca. This orginization let Bob MCClure go, and look at the staff in Kansas City.
July 3, 2008
12:29 p.m.
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wonderboytyre writes:
I think some people on this board fail to realize that signing Holliday and Atkins both is probably not even an option. That would take Red Sox or Yankees money, especially since we are paying a max contract to the worst clean up hitter in the league. Helton is the problem here he has 29 RBI and is hitting .260 and he is making 17 million a year. If Helton wanted to win so bad he would take a pay cut to keep one of these guys here, but we all know that is not going to happen. We could have gotten alot more for Fuentes last year then this year, but once again poor management becomes evident. Call me crazy dont other then Tulo I dont think we have a guy that is willing to do anything to fire this ball club up included Hurdle. When was the last time someone went on a rant about losing or got ejected from a game? My point exactly this team is just going through the motions.
July 3, 2008
12:32 p.m.
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fastnloose writes:
People always say we need to pick up a quality starting pitcher,unless Wal-Mart just recieved a new truck load of unwanted quality starting pitchers,who is going to give you theirs?If we had a 17-20 game winner,would we give him up just because another team had a need.I think not,if a team is willing to depart with a year in and out winning pitcher someting is wrong.That leaves you with 8-12 game winners and they are always a gamble.
July 3, 2008
12:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
Jamaro writes:
I think it is inevitable that Fuentes will be traded. with Buccholz being able to step into the 9th the way he has been pitching. Also next year Weathers should be close enough to being a staple in the pen. Want to talk about bad moves, Luis V. Hard to expect that much out of a guy who has pitched in the amount of games he has over the last few years.
As for Ian, no way can anybody write him off, yes he has things to work on but if you watch this guy he has loads of talent, is young and will get his shot sometime.
Atkins seems tricky, but as for Holliday why not pay him? Helton will not be around forever, even if you have to put up and pay a couple big contracts for a few years, Holliday then can step up into that main guy along side Tulo.
If eveytime you develope a good player and the owners don't like to spend then the Rockies will be doing this every other year. Trading away talent for future talent that they will trade.
Its not like this team is so bad that this is the end forever. This year is a dissapointment but they will still play baseball next year! Make Holliday, Tulo cornerstones, who knows maybe Hawpe or Atkins as well and build around them; as well as Cook, Francis, Ubaldo, build a staff!
July 3, 2008
1:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
blm69 writes:
I don't think anybody including Holliday is worth over $100 million. At one time Helton was putting up numbers that exceeded what Holliday has done. We signed him to a big contract and now he's mediocre at best. It's too risky to mortgage your entire team for one player. I see the Red Sox buying Holliday at the end of his contract with the Rox to replace Manny.
July 3, 2008
1:58 p.m.
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warrengfunk7 writes:
If teh Rockies want to talk trade, they should be trading Joe Kochanski, Clint Barmes, Johnathan Hererra, and Todd Helton in a package for a starting pitcher such as Roy Holladay. Even thrown in Brian Fuentes if you have to, just go get Roy Holladay. The Rockies have so much minor league depth, they could give Toranto Todd helton, Brian Fuentes, Joe Koshanski (1B), plus a great SS/2b and/or a Center Fielder like Dexter Fowler.
Are you kidding? Toronto wouldn't be able to resist such an offer! And the Rockies? They could easily still win the division THIS SEASON with that move. Not to mention challenge for the NL's best record in 2009.
July 3, 2008
1:59 p.m.
Suggest removal
fastnloose writes:
The difference with giving Holliday a boat load of money vs Helton,is Holliday has several more very productive years in him.Helton had been around a longer time when he cashed in.Matt is just now coming into his prime,unless he pulls the trigger on Colorado, you keep him.
July 3, 2008
2:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
mkcampin2 writes:
TODD HELTON..
ARE THE BRAVES GOING TO SIGN MARK TEXIERA???
HELTON WOULD BE A GREAT FIT WITH THE ATLANTA BRAVES...
July 3, 2008
4:07 p.m.
Suggest removal
fastnloose writes:
Being realistic,a new team might be willing to give Helton 8-10 million a year.Rockies eat the rest of his contract,can you say Mike Hampton.
July 3, 2008
7:37 p.m.
Suggest removal
BoostHard writes:
Mike Hampton?
This guy went 21-23 in two years with Colorado. '01 & '02
And you wanna pay him $8-$10 million.
He's been in the league for 15 years
Lets get Greg Maddux while we're at it.........
July 3, 2008
9:55 p.m.
Suggest removal
fastnloose writes:
BoostHard,are you out in left field or what?I didn't mean get Mike Hampton to pitch for us.After we dumped him we paid for years to make up for the big contract his new team would not pay for.Thus we would be stuck paying for Helton's contract if his new team did not fulfill all the money we signed him for.WOW! I guess I really need to break it down for all the rookies out there.
July 5, 2008
2:52 a.m.
Suggest removal
warrengfunk7 writes:
Here's the deal the Rockies should present to Toronto Blue jays...
SEND:
-Joe Koshansky, 1B (big-time power, major league ready)
-Dexter Fowler, CF (5-tool player is emerging as teh Rockies TOP Prospect)
-Clint Barmes, 2B/SS (Toronto needs a 2B and Barmes is just what they need)
-Jason Hirsh, RHP (still has great potential and needs to workout mechanics in AAA, definitely worth Toronto taking a chance on)
RECEIVE:
-Roy Halladay (a TRUE ACE, a Denver native who grew up pitching here and a strikeout pitcher. Can't hit Home Runs if they can't even ht the ball. He is 31 years old, Wins games, eats up innings and doesn't have health issues.)
Toronto is in last place and a move like this would pump a future into their organization. It is definitely good value for both sides of this deal.
July 5, 2008
12:33 p.m.
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fastnloose writes:
Warrengfunk7,wish I could get as excited about a 31yr old, probably starting on the downside of career pitcher, as you.You want to give 3 major league ready and one good prospect player for a possible 16-17 game winner, if the rest of our team plays very,very well.You sound like a local guy who knows Hallady and hopes you can see a few Rockies games sitting in his seats.
July 6, 2008
8 p.m.
Suggest removal
Jamaro writes:
Halladay is a great pitcher, the Jays will not let him go, he wouldn't solve all the Rockies problems over night, and to give up Fowler and Barmes two players that could be around and contribute for a while still would not be enough. The Jays would expect prospects and a major leauge ready player or established player. No way Halladay is traded. But sounds like a good idea in MLB 2K8.