SPEAKOUT: Anti-teacher charges untrue, don't help
By Ted Brucker and Barbara Piascik
Published February 29, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.
After reading Bill Moloney's Speakout commentary of Feb. 1, "American teachers unions: the fatal flaw," we are compelled to respond. We understand Moloney's frustration, but find that blaming the Denver Classroom Teachers Association specifically and teachers unions in general, as the major impediments to school reform, is counterproductive and simply not true.
Teacher unions continue to be a necessary force in protecting teachers' rights and sounding the alarm against unwise administrative policies.
Nationally, teacher unions are becoming more involved in school reform as illustrated by the formation of the Teachers Union Reform Network, made up of a number of progressive urban locals - both National Education Association and American Federation of Teachers affiliates. The goal of TURN is the exploration and development of school reform models that lead to the restructuring of unions so they will become more responsible for and responsive to projects that improve student achievement.
Locally, the DCTA, an active member of TURN, agreed to a pay-for-performance program for teachers - a school reform model noted by school districts and teacher unions throughout the country.
Despite well-intended school reforms and large increases in spending, academic achievement has not substantially improved in decades. This is the contention of McKinsey & Co., a global research company that problem-solves for more than 70 percent of Fortune 500 companies. McKinsey's study of the 10 best-performing school systems in the world was published in September 2007. The research did not focus on pedagogy or curriculum, but on the organization of school systems.
McKinsey discovered that there were several core principles that all these systems had in common: that the quality of a school system cannot exceed the quality of its teachers; that high performance requires every child to succeed; and that the only way to improve outcomes is to improve instruction. These principles transcend language, culture, tradition and even geography.
The company is now helping a select group of school systems around the world to incorporate these principles. While it is clear that full implementation might take years, positive results are already being noted. To learn more about these core principals and how they are being implemented in the top-performing school systems in the world, we refer Rocky Mountain News readers to the report, How the World's Best Performing School Systems Came Out on Top, which has been published on the Internet.
While we have made reference to the McKinsey report, we cannot be sure that it is the best plan for the Denver Public Schools. We are sure that Denver Public Schools, DCTA and the Denver community must create a comprehensive and practical vision that can create a high-performance school system.
It's time that we in Denver, in Colorado and in the United States stop looking at the trees and start looking at the forest. The futures of our children and our communities are at stake.
Ted Brucker and Barbara Piascik are retired DPS teachers.
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February 29, 2008
7:47 a.m.
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vudumom writes:
I realize the administrations of most area school systems are holding teachers down,by their rules,regulations,telling teachers what to teach,how to teach it and micromanaging everything a teacher does right down to the way they classroom desks are set up.
However the teacher's union has to address the weeding out of teacher's that are entrenched in our schools and cannot be removed if they are not performing or are just horrible teachers.Every child can learn,it's the way it is taught.In the younger children,creating an exciting and inspirational learning enviroment will help give children the extra incentive to do their best,no matter what the home situation is.This is often discouraged by the administators.All children by their rules they have set up must be taught the exact same way.Great teachers will not do this and individualize a way to get through to students who do not fit the stay within the lines approach to learning that has been set up for the teachers.
Teachers are like robots today.Some are great teachers and buck the administrations stupid rules by telling them how to teach.These teachers who are the best in the schools are often black sheep of the school,because they are not in lockstep with the administration and other robot teachers.I have personally seen this.
In my childrens school there are children who are as much as 4 grades behind their grade level and are being passed onto 6th grade next school year.The administrators have instructed teachers not to give failing grades ,but to give them Satisfactory so they can be passed onto the next grade.Even though some of these students have never gotten above a D on any test or graded paper.Never!Yet the teachers are forced to not let the parents really know their children are failing miserably.The parents don't seem to care either.If your child is in 5th grade and can barely read a 1st grade book,cannot ever get any spelling words correct on a test and can't write a complete sentence.You have a problem!
When the teacher's union can come up with a plan to get rid of bad teacher's,I think they will get more respect.Just because a person becomes a teacher does not automatically mean they are a good one.The poor teacher's must be removed and nobility can be restored to a profession that was once held to a higher standard and respected.I would like to see these issues addressed and the teacher's union taking some of the blame for the dumbing down and allowing children to be pushed along like cattle to slaughter.
You stand up for the rights of teacher's ,how about standing up for the rights of children?
February 29, 2008
8:24 a.m.
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farsidefan writes:
Moloney needs to go back to Maryland. He was hired on a split vote by the state board of education because they couldn't agree on the top two candidates. He was a terrible Commissioner of Education and drove the dept. into the depths. He could care less about people and kids.
He is all show and no go.
February 29, 2008
8:37 a.m.
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sschow writes:
For those of you who missed it, here are the three factors that determine a school's success:
1) The quality of its TEACHERS
2) In order to perform, all students need to succeed (That's like saying in order to be rich everyone needs to make a lot of money. Of course this is true. It's just answering the question with a question. "How do you get schools to succeed?" "Well, every child needs to succeed!" ... "But how?")
3) Improving instruction (i.e. TEACHING) improves outcomes
Ted and Barbara have the audacity to claim that teachers aren't the problem?!? Let's stop tip-toeing around the situation and put the blame where it belongs. Those who go into teaching have a sub-par grasp of the subjects they teach, which is why as American students grow older (i.e. harder subjects) they drop off in the international rankings of intelligence.
February 29, 2008
9:05 a.m.
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kathyM writes:
sschow, You said, "Those who go into teaching have a sub-par grasp of the subjects they teach...". I'll remind you that K-5 teachers teach ALL major subjects: reading, math, writing, science, social studies. The college curricula attempt to cram the equivalent of 5 majors into a four-year degree. It's really difficult to be expert in all, even for the brightest teachers.
Maybe it's time that elementary teachers also specialize, like their middle school and high school colleagues. Our children will then have several additional teachers (besides music, art, and PE). This would require school districts to vastly increase their staffing, which doesn't come cheap. Are you ready to put your tax money where your mouth is?
February 29, 2008
9:36 a.m.
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Shaupeen writes:
sschow, how do you have audacity to say "Those who go into teaching have a sub-par grasp of the subjects they teach?" You are wrong. I know plenty of teachers who are experts in their field! What an ignorant, flat-out incorrect comment for you to make! There's no way you can back that claim up, so I'm not even going to ask you to cite your source, unless your ass, from where you speak, counts.
February 29, 2008
9:46 a.m.
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freethinker07 writes:
kathyM makes several errors.
The most egregious is her ludicrous notion that specialization would require more teachers. All you would have to do is group classes into groups of four and have the students change classrooms every period. The student teacher ratio would not change in the least.
A notion she misses is the goal that everyone should have a middle school grasp of all subjects. Obviously in the middle school you would need specialized training to be ahead of all the students, but anyone who graduates from college should have subject mastery up to grade 5 in math, English, social studies and science. They might need review, they might need to look things up, they may need refresher courses, but they all should have grade 5 mastery of the basic subjects in order to graduate from college.
February 29, 2008
9:55 a.m.
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stuckiniowa writes:
vudumom -- perhaps the reasons that administrations are "strict" in their curriculum BECAUSE teachers are so bad. When you have sub par employees, management is forced to create structure. In general unions create this situation. They prevent the leadership from culling the herd. Notice that unions have never innovated anything, except how to raise costs (and prices) and reduce productivity. Unions do nothing but protect the worst, and hinder the best.
Kathy M - Elementary school teachers generally teach 5 subjects, because the teaching involved is generally less technical. You dont have to have a deep understanding of math to teach basic add/ subtract/ multiply divide. Middle and HS teachers on the other hand are teaching Algebra, Geometry, Trig and calculus -- all requireing a much deeper base. This goes for other courses as well. Teaching cursive vs teaching writing. Basic history (what happened) v the much deeper HS subject of What caused it, why, what is the result.
February 29, 2008
10:03 a.m.
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kathyM writes:
freethinker, According to your logic, an elementary teacher just needs to know what 5th graders know. Since you seem to believe teaching is that simple, then go teach math to some first graders. Or, teach some fourth graders how to write an essay. Or, teach some fifth graders the life cycle of a plant. Then test the kids and see how much they retain from your brilliance. You'll be unpleasantly surprised. Teaching is anything but simple.
February 29, 2008
10:20 a.m.
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Shaupeen writes:
OK, stuckiniowa (is that you Mike?) I'll agree with the first part of your statement--unions DO protect the worst, and I'm sick over that on a daily basis (we've all got stories about incompetent employees keeping their jobs--that's not limited to teachers), but I'd have to take issue with the second part. I don't think unions hinder the best teachers. I would like to think the best are the best in part at least because they don't allow for anything to hinder them. But I still don't understand how you think a union would be able to hinder a good teacher. Are you saying a union rep is in the classroom, not allowing a good teacher to reach the upper levels of Bloom's questioning strategies? Or what?
February 29, 2008
11:02 a.m.
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stuckiniowa writes:
I am saying that overall teachers could be better if the union did not exist. It is not the union directly that hinders performance. It is the guidelines and structure that are created by the administration because of the union that hinder a teacher.
The management create this bureaucracy and set curriculum, because the union demands it. Sure - are there a few exceptional teachers who sneak through and excel within these confines, by adapting to it .. sure. But they are an extreme example.
And no - I am not Mike, but I did survive the DPS.
February 29, 2008
11:33 a.m.
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Coco writes:
vudu,iowa,sschow - It's people like you who make teaching so difficult. Your arrogant, "I'm better than them", "They're sub-par, not me", "It's their fault, not mine" attitude is passed on to your little darlings, who are quite sure, per their parents' examples that they are better than the teacher and can't learn a thing from such a sub-par person. You are the type of folks who fairly p#@ yourselves with glee to learn of a way you can reinvent and generalize negatively anything that happens in the classroom.
Since you are all clearly such stellar, brilliant, individuals, why not share your gifts and become teachers?
February 29, 2008
12:59 p.m.
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stuckiniowa writes:
Coco --You are absolutely correct in that I think I am too smart to become a teacher. By that I mean I am smart enough to know that I would make an absolutely HORRIBLE teacher. (I had enough to know one when I see one.) However, the fact that I would make a horrible teacher, and am not one, has nothing to do with the fact that teachers unions are ruining the profession. They make it too easy to pass the buck FROM the teacher. Sure parents share responsibility in ensuring that their kids go to school and are pushed to learn. But teachers share that responsibility in that they are responsible for conveying what should be learned.
Another difference -- Teachers take on this responsibility voluntarily. The same can not be said for all parents.
February 29, 2008
1:05 p.m.
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psu96 writes:
Vudumom,
Please explain how you can speak in absolutes like that, you make a lot of assumptions yet I only heard you say that you volunteer in your kids school? God, You can't post without mentioning them.
Have you worked in the education field? Have you volunteered anywhere else? Differentating Instruction, I believe, goes on throughout the school systems.
I have worked in the field for 10 years now and our district is in no way similiar to what you blab about. As a counselor I can say that in some, if not most cases, retention of a child does more harm than good, although I do not agree with the philosophy of passing on a child that is not peforming at grade level, I do agree with passing them on socially and enrolling them in lower level classes or something similiar. DO you know what RTI is? NCLB? Giving your distorted rant I assume you believe every child will be proficient by 2012? Thats like saying to your HS Soccer team you need to win a championship every year and who cares what kind of athletes you have.
Sorry for the rant but I can not stand people who spend a munber of limited hours in one school and feel they can speak about education.
February 29, 2008
1:32 p.m.
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Shaupeen writes:
But psu96, vudumom KNOWS how it is because her child tells her. She cannot be wrong. That would mean her child is wrong, and, GASP, that could NEVER happen!!! One you accept this absolute, it makes reading her posts easier.
February 29, 2008
4:56 p.m.
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BetterEducated writes:
Maybe this is a little simplistic, but my math is different than the one used at DPS.
If you have 60,000 students and 15,000 workers, that means you have one worker for every four children.
How many workers does DPS support? How many children does it teach? Do the simple math and conclude what you will. My own conclusion is that somewhere along the line a terrific amount of waste is occurring. IMO, the union argument is a red herring -- as the reform argument is a red herring. The school district questioned in the article has only one true agenda: to retire its overpaid administrators, and keep itself in business so that can take place. Most parents and kids in the District would do just about anything to get away from its "schools." To the extent the union is just another beaurocratic layer and obstacle to the education -- so much the better.
Let us not forget that this school district VOLUNTARILY recognizes the union as the "exclusive representative" for teachers. It's not forced to do so, nor is there a statutory mechanism for it. All that needs to take place at DPS for the union to go away is for the Board to say good-bye. I'm not saying this is necessarily the best idea -- just that most people do not understand that the union is not a legislatively enforced component of Denver's "public schools." It's just a reflection of the mindset of people elected to the Board, that's all. If people in Denver don't want the union, they should elect other members to the Board.
February 29, 2008
5:12 p.m.
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BetterEducated writes:
I need to add a Postscript:
Someone once paraphrased my sig line as "Bitter Educated," and that was so true (if a little rude) that I'll adopt it myself:
I AM bitter about Denver Public Schools. Everybody who considers Denver their Home Town should be bitter. The more educated they would get about its operations, the more bitter they would become...until maybe, JUST MAYBE, some future generation could look forward to getting a safe, sound education in the grand capitol city of Colorado. Anyone who thinks closing a couple of schools or refinancing the pension plan is going to do this is kidding themselves, and probably doesn't have school-aged kids in the District.
March 1, 2008
7:13 a.m.
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vudumom writes:
I taught preschool for 13 years.I owned and ran my own preschool. I went to the kindergarten teachers and asked them what skills they wanted a child to come into school with. I ran a before and after school study and homework group.I am in contact with all my former students and all of them have graduated,went to college and are starting their own families.I moved here 13 years ago.I was a nanny for 2 boys.One I taught to read and be prepared for kindergarten.The other I was in the process of teaching him,when I began my own family.The mother of the child I was in the process of teaching to be prepared for kindergarten called me a few years later to ask my help with her youngest who was now in 1st grade and not reading at grade level or as well as his older brother that I had taught to read.Both children were in a $8,000 per child ,per year private school.So money doesn't always buy a great education.
I taught both my children to read and much more before walking into kindergarten.Both are high achievers and get awards for being well behaved children.I do not tolerate any disrespect of a teacher.I did have a kindergarten teacher tell me ,quote " you are being abusive to your child by allowing her to read above kindergarten level and teaching her math."This teacher has had over 100 complaints and is still teaching.Yet the school protects her.
So yes ,I have been teaching all my life.I have given many children including my own a solid learning foundation before entering public school.I have seen weak curriculums.I have seen the same curriculum taught the same way in the same weeks every year.I can teach the curriculum to my youngest by following my oldest child's papers she brings home.It has never changed since my oldest started kindergarten.
The teacher's I deal with are the black sheep of the school because they will teach outside the box. One is an engineer and one is a highly motivated teacher trying to teach to the student ,not to a class.Each child is different and each child has their strengths and weaknesses.She tries to teach each student individually not teach the box she has been given.
I grade papers for her and what I see these kids not knowing and going into middle school next year is frightening.I can't believe some of these kids are even in 5th grade.There are at least 5 working at a 1st and 2nd grade level.I asked the teacher how they got to 5th grade and was told they grade them on their level even if it is below grade level.Instead of an " F" grade they will get a satisfactory grade,so they don't get their feelings hurt.If they are in 5th grade and working on a 2nd grade level,they are graded at a 2nd grade level and passed on to the next grade.
This teacher has been reprimanded by the administration for changing the way her desks are set up in her class.Is this sane policies to you. Especially the ones that think I'm some mother who doesn't know what is going on?I have seen too much.I am disgusted by what I see.
March 1, 2008
10:08 a.m.
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BetterEducated writes:
On the first day that my daughter attended Edison Elementary as kindergarten student, the teacher -- about 22 years old -- pointed out that she had far too many children to control, and asked me to help.
The first-year teachers were assigned to the most challenging classrooms.
This seemed to stack the deck against education from the very first day.
Many DPS administrators are former DCTA members. One hand washes the other at DPS. But what bugs me most is the Secret Society part of the public school districts, which results in an unclear picture of exactly who is employed there and how much they are being paid. I call it Local Out Of Control! :-)
March 1, 2008
12:25 p.m.
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gmart writes:
PajamaPulitzer might be a misnomer- PajamaPutz is more like it.
The average teacher is a moron? How do you come up with that- probably the way most public school critics do- they drive by a school everyday, so they are automatically experts.
Please post about something you know about.
Also- everyone acts like the DPS is the only district with a teacher's union. What about all the other disrticts?
March 1, 2008
12:34 p.m.
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gmart writes:
Sorry- another rant..
For all of you out there that think the union protects bad teachers, sorry- you are mistaken. The administration at every school has a very defined way to rid themselves of teachers they feel are not good enough. Unfortunatley, the majority of thse administrators lack the spine or the dedication to do this. The union will not shield a teacher from this process. They will represent the teacher if asked and help them through any hearings or meetings. If the administrators have done their job and documented the inability of a teacher to perform their job, the teacher will be terminated or reasigned to a position where they can fulfill their duties.
March 2, 2008
10:14 a.m.
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gmart writes:
Vouchers are great, as long as all the kids get a chance to go to whatever school they want. Unfortunatley that will never happen as the elite schools will raise tuiton accordingly so that those who pay now for a private school will still be paying a similar amount plus their voucher. I was told this by the headmaster of one of Denver's private schools. They don't have the staff nor the wish to try and educate anyone that does not fit their ideal of a student. Free market is a myth in education.
March 3, 2008
7:04 a.m.
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vudumom writes:
psu96.I have been teaching children for 25 years,including my own.I have supplement my children's curriculum because the curriculum is weak in the schools.They will provide for the kids behind.They will teach the box to the mediocre kids,sending home 'A's" so the parent's think they are doing well.When A's mean nothing when it comes to what the child in elementary school actually knows.You are only a "counselor" in a field,I'm going to take your words literally,you don't know jack and accusing me of not knowing or seeing what is going on in my children's school gives you zero credibility.So you keep being a counselor in a field,because the schools need people like you.I don't care what school system your in.I can only relate what my children and I have experienced in their school.I'm not painting a broad brush against all schools or school systems.It seems like the only ones who see the chaos are the ones not working for the school system.Do the schools hand out blinders when they hire people?
March 3, 2008
10:25 a.m.
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BetterEducated writes:
"Do the schools hand out blinders when they hire people?"
What a ridiculous suggestion.
Everybody knows it's a contaminant in the drinking fountains. Sheesh!
March 3, 2008
10:39 a.m.
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gmart writes:
vudumom-
for teaching all this time, you seem to have a hard time with grammar. I am surprised a teacher would let you help grade papers.
March 3, 2008
10:52 a.m.
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vudumom writes:
gmart,You might want to check your posts for misspellings and puncuation.When I post I do not always check everything I write.No one is perfect on here when they post.It's not a letter writing competition.
So get off your high horse.Sometimes people have their noses so far up in the air ,if it rains they will drown.Luckily for you it doesn't rain much in Colorado.
March 3, 2008
1:41 p.m.
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gmart writes:
sorry vudumom,
My high horse must have had his blinders on...
I was not attacking but making the point that your posts don't read as though they come from a reading teacher and that I would wonder about someone grading papers that writes in the style you do.
That being said, you are to be congratulated for helping out at your school. I wish more parents would be involved like you are.
March 3, 2008
6:19 p.m.
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freethinker07 writes:
KathyM
I did not say that teaching was easy. I said that the subject matter is basic. Theoretically, teachers are taught how to teach in College. The subject matter can be reviewed.
I have taught middle school. I hated it and was not particularly good at it. I don't understand classroom management, lesson preparation, discipline, or any of the skills that would be taught in an Education Department at a good college. But the subject matter was not particularly difficult. And I had the teacher's manual with all the answers to review questions already provided.
March 4, 2008
2:49 p.m.
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kathyM writes:
freethinker, at least you have the guts to admit you don't understand half of what it takes to be a good teacher--classroom management, preparation, discipline. Teaching is like herding cats: very difficult but rewarding, even if you're scratched up in the end.