'Asian hate' writer suspended
By Heath Urie, Daily Camera
Published February 27, 2008 at 9:45 a.m.
Updated February 28, 2008 at 12:20 p.m.
Photo by Glenn Asakawa © University Of Colorado
Max Karson, who wrote the controversial column, listens to the rally proceedings.
Photo by Darin McGregor / The Rocky
CU students hold hands while singing We Shall Overcome during Wednesday's protest rally.
Photo by Darin McGregor / The Rocky
Torey Gannon, left, and Victor Hsu listen to speeches condemning an opinion column.
BOULDER — The author of an opinion column that garnered national attention for saying Asians "hate us all" and should be hated back was suspended from CU's Campus Press newspaper staff Wednesday.
"Max Karson's duties with the Campus Press have been suspended pending a restructuring of the opinions section," according to a statement posted on the student paper's Web site Wednesday.
Karson ignited a firestorm last week when his piece titled "If it's war the Asians want ... It's war they'll get," infuriated some students and past members of the Campus Press staff who said the piece was inflammatory and a failed attempt at satire.
The statement goes on to say that the publication's editors are in the process of organizing an "open, public forum to address diversity sensitivity in our news coverage" and are rewriting their ethics policy.
The announcement came the same day university officials said they're close to announcing major changes in the way the paper is operated and overseen.
Faculty members within the CU School of Journalism and Mass Communication met behind closed doors for more than two hours Wednesday to discuss how to best change the management structure of the Campus Press, a class that operates within the school, so that offensive content doesn't get published.
The Campus Press already has agreed to establish a Student Diversity Advisory Board, invite student organizations to meet face-to-face with the editors, adopt an "opinions policy," schedule a series of diversity-awareness workshops for the entire staff and host a series of workshops for opinion writing and editing.
More than a dozen student members of the Campus Press sat outside the faculty meeting room Wednesday waiting to hear what decisions were made about the fate of the publication, but no announcement was made when the group emerged.
Paul Voakes, dean of the journalism school, did release a statement from the faculty group that served equally as an apology.
"This (column) is the antithesis of what we're trying to teach in our school," Voakes said. "The faculty and I take responsibility for the offense that the Campus Press obviously has caused."
He called Karson's column an "editorial mistake" that should have been caught.
Meanwhile, Karson's column continued to spark anger Wednesday.
Boulder City Manager Frank Bruno released a statement saying, "Discrimination is not what Boulder is about."
Also, about 150 students gathered on the University Memorial Center south plaza for a rally and demonstration against the Campus Press.
Chris Choe, a 21-year-old senior and member of the Korean American Students at Boulder group who led the rally, said he hopes the university's administration fundamentally changes how content is reviewed before it's published by the class.
"I want to see responsibility," Choe said. "I want to see that this isn't being marginalized."
Later, the group migrated to a large auditorium on the campus for a forum among Campus Press representatives, CU officials and student leaders.
Federal mediators brought in by student organizers from the U.S. Department of Justice moderated the public meeting, in which students continued to call for changes at the online student paper and in which Campus Press editors offered apologies for any pain that Karson's column caused.
"The mistake that I made when I published the article was thinking that my reactions spoke for everyone," Editor-in-Chief Cassie Hewlings, who sat somberly through the meeting, told the crowd. "I am so incredibly sorry. I didn't want to hurt anyone.
"I've learned more this past week than I have my whole 22 years of life."
EARLIER STORY
Student leaders at the University of Colorado on Wednesday demanded the resignations of the online student newspaper editor and a faculty adviser for publishing a column that has created a furor among Asian Americans and other minority students.
A diverse audience of nearly 200 people attended a rally outside University Memorial Center before meeting with CU-Boulder Chancellor Bud Peterson.
The students carried signs that read "Stop the Hate" and "Responsible Journalism Now."
Several rejected the idea that the Feb. 18 column - written by student Max Karson - was meant as a satire and instead called it hate speech. It was titled "If it's war the Asians want . . . It's war they'll get."
The students also were upset about a column published a day earlier titled "No hablo Ingles," or "I don't speak English."
"The editors at the Campus Press should rename that opinion section as 'racist viewpoints,' said David Chiu, a CU senior. "Once again, the reputation at CU has been tarnished. The publication of these articles embodies institutional racism."
He called for the resignation of Cassie Hewlings, Campus Press editor-in-chief, and faculty adviser Amy Herdy.
Both Hewlings and Herdy apologized directly to the audience after they were prompted by the student government's diversity director.
"I am sorry, it was no one's intent to be hurtful," said Herdy, who noted that the paper also had published an apology.
When someone asked Hewlings what she was apologizing for, she replied, "I am so incredibly sorry. I didn't want to hurt anybody. . . . It was a mistake for me not to see how more people would take this. I've learned more in this last week than I have in my entire 22 years of life."
After the meeting, Hewlings said she did not intend to resign.
Charles Gilford III, one of the three leaders of the CU student government, said he respects freedom of speech but that it was no excuse for publishing the column.
"You have no right to isolate and marginalize certain people," he said. "You have no right to attack a member of our family, and that's what's happened."
Gilford suggested that campus officials evaluate the column in light of federal anti-discrimination laws.
Peterson listened and took notes during the meeting.
At the end of the 90-minute session, he said he would direct students and staff to examine if anyone's civil rights had been violated. He noted that he has directed the journalism department's chairman to re-evaluate the structure and supervision of the Campus Press. He also vowed to re-examine some measures that the campus promised to take two years ago after another student leader received a racially charged death threat.
--John Ensslin, The Rocky
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February 27, 2008
10:17 a.m.
Suggest removal
Elwood writes:
F*&^ ASIANS!!!
Is this better? What ever happened to free speech? Or is it only speech that doesn't offend ANYONE? Well people, you need to toughen up and not let your little feelings get hurt so easily.
February 27, 2008
10:21 a.m.
Suggest removal
Michael writes:
"Student editors defended the column as satire and said it is important to allow a variety of opinions in the campus paper for the sake of free speech and to encourage debate."
This argument is always accepted without much of a challenge when the target of the attack/humor/satire/parody is a member of any of the following groups: White, Male, Christian, Conservative, Republican, any member of the current administration, the US Military, The Minutemen, FOX News, US business and commercial interests, the oil & gas industry, the nuclear energy industry, Halliburton, KBR, or Wal-Mart. I might have missed a few but let any attack or satire be aimed at any of these groups and see if there is even a blip on the radar screen or any calls for more "tolerance" or diversity of thought training. Either ALL attacks are bad and NOT to be tolerated or ALL or allowable and everyone needs to grow some thick skin. The chickens have come home to roost on this issue.
February 27, 2008
10:33 a.m.
Suggest removal
rgb424 writes:
Michael: You are so right! But even more distressing is the fact that the 'protected' groups know this and use it to their advantage. Knowing the system and using it to your advantage is smart. This game is matured from the actions taken during the 60's. Unfortunately the system doesn't recognize it is being played. To a great degree the war on terror is a reason to finally wise up. People on welfare cheat, using the system to get more than they deserve, but this does not damage anything more than our finances. People working on Katrina construction projects cheat but at least some construction is happening and again, financial damage we can afford. But when Muslims use our own system, built based on the good will of Americans to the world, against us, creating a culture where they can plan and attack but we can not complain, that we can not afford. That we must not tolerate, that system we must change. This is a fine line because hate speech should not be the solution; no we should instead find a way to stop the freedoms allowed to the Muslims in creating hate plans against our culture, our people.
February 27, 2008
10:51 a.m.
Suggest removal
wow writes:
We need to be asking why the editorial staff thought the column made acceptable satire? All the writing critiques aside, is racial stereotyping funny? If so to whom is it funny? What is the appropriate venue for that type of humor? Who are these students learning from?
There is nothing wrong with approaching a sensitive issue in a news publication with a wry sense of humor, if the subject is treated with respect.
Stand up comics poke fun at racial differences, so does "The Onion". Finding the appropriate venue for that type of humor is easy. News publications are held to an entirely different standard, and should be. That is my understanding of what editors are for.
We don't need diversity training. We need better Journalism professors. If racial stereotyping is news, and it is, obviously, let's treat it like news, and discuss it constructively and informatively. This is not a free speech issue.
As for getting a thicker skin...well, maybe. But our tolerance of meanness is dropping, finally, and that is something to be celebrated. Disrespect for eachother has gone far enough.
February 27, 2008
10:59 a.m.
Suggest removal
Theoldguy writes:
Originally I was going to attack the two prior postings along with the article.
I've changed my mind.
I grew up in Chicago during the 50's and 60's. A veritable melting pot in the Midwest. What is now referred to as "disparaging remarks" were simply a shorthanded way of referring to someone. I heard enough comments about my ancestry to last a lifetime. Looking back at those days I see many different people, not much different from today, trying to get through the day and make ends meet. The difference is that political correctness has taken the vive la difference out of our lives. One size does not fit all. We all have the choice of who we associate with. Some mini-societies will always stay closed and distrustful of others. Human nature. So much has been forced on us that we are just now realizing how social engineers have tried to rewire us into a homogenous society easily manipulated as a whole. School children are naturally upset with the concept of losing their self or natural individual identity within a family group.
As hard as it is to agree with anything that comes out of CU I'll have to support this train of thought. We are individuals that have the right to use our words for good or bad. Right or wrong. PC and the thought police need to be put out of business along with the social engineers. Teachers need to teach and leave the raising of children to the parents. If that fails then there is the alternative, which I like. Rescind the mandatory education of children. Those that want to learn will be taught. Those that don't can easily find jobs in workhouses when the child labor laws are done away with.
Then, perhaps, the quality of education will reappear at CU.
February 27, 2008
11:28 a.m.
Suggest removal
American100 writes:
Wait a minute...did they say free speech should have limits?
Limits such as what? It's only OK to bash Americans? Especially white Americans?
It's not free speech if it has limits.
Where's that Austrailian PM speech about loving Austrailia or leaving it?
February 27, 2008
11:29 a.m.
Suggest removal
politwriter writes:
The sheepish University officials had better not make changes that in any way infringe on the 1st amendment freedoms of these student journalists or they will be facing the attorneys of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE), a Pennsylvania civil liberties legal foundation that has racked up win after win in the courts on matters just such as this.
It is outrageous and genuinely unAmerican that these leftist PC censors should try to spit in the face of the US Constitution and curtail the free speech rights of the student writers.
The protestors are the ideological heirs to the legacy of the book-burning Hitler Youth of 1933.
Further, how does a satiric op-ed piece merit the headline above the story?
Looks like some people in the Rocky Mtn. Newsroom need some 1st amendment sensitivity training.
February 27, 2008
11:41 a.m.
Suggest removal
amberspell writes:
What one person thinks is a casual and possibly humorous perspective is someone else's nightmare. As ridiculous as "catching people with nets" may sound to some people, doesn't it sound equally ridiculous to round up all the Japanese and if there is no where to put them, put them in a horse stable? Well, that is exactly what happened to my mother. She was rounded up with her two toddlers and newborn baby and put in a horse stable. She saw people get shot in the back, she had to continually warn her children to stay away from the fence lest they be shot as well.
She read this "satire" - and was alarmed and frightened. She should never have had to feel that kind of fear again living in this country. Shame on those of you who tell this 92 year old American born woman to get a thicker skin.
One of the problems with stereotypes is that they attempt to erase the most fundamental and truly beautiful aspects of who we are.
February 27, 2008
11:50 a.m.
Suggest removal
rs0420 writes:
Are you kidding me? These students should have better things to do than worry about someone's opinion. I hate to say it but the article about the Asian's has some truth to it. Not all but some. My thoughts, if you don't like what it says, DON'T READ IT!!! Duh! It's not that hard, that's why we have the freedom of choice to read whatever we want. "Free speech should have limits." Now that's an oxymoron right there. If it had limits, it wouldn't be free speech. These people should worry about their own education first. Typical Boulder people!!!
Amberspell- how about you tell your mother not to read the article? She has that choice.
February 27, 2008
11:57 a.m.
Suggest removal
Ottis writes:
No one owes anyone else "respect." You earn respect. Tolerance is enough. This is just the latest example of overreaction to something that mature adults would simply ignore. The writer's column says more about the writer than about Asians. Focus, people, and have some perspective.
February 27, 2008
12:11 p.m.
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kekepania writes:
It isn't the fact that people need to have a sense of humor about things and that all minorities need to have a thicker skin and not let their feelings be hurt so easily...it is a little thing called TACT. When it comes to race and religion there is a fine line between what people find as funny and what people are sensitive about. It is a fact of life when it come to these two subjects. Before you speak, think about your audience and their reaction! It is just a respect factor people.
February 27, 2008
12:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
Theoldguy writes:
amberspell
I wouldn't suggest that your mother get a thicker skin, that would detract from her femininity. Keeping a low profile would be more appropriate.
During the 30's and 40's Japan was exercising its muscle and feeling frisky after the Rape of Nanking. So "expansion" was in the air. The US was aware of this and sought to prevent even more Japanese spies into the country. When the Japanese set up housekeeping in Alaska that was a bit too much. The reality is that Japanese did look alike to Americans at that time. Germans couldn't be separated from the other white Europeans so they were left alone. You can bet that Hoover was having his FBI agents watching every move. The Japanese were subjected to the universal "one size fits all" routine that, looking back through history, was one giant, ignorant mistake. You'll also notice that the American Japanese were used in our Armed Forces and accumulated some wonderful awards and citations.
Since then we, as a culture, have been exposed to Bruce Lee, Jet Li, Jackie Chan and, my favorite, Sesshu Hayakawa. It would take a truly ignorant "round eye" to not see the difference between Chinese, Korean, Japanese and the other Asian countries.
Now that this country has been subjected to "Immigration extrordinaire" it will take some getting used to while things settle down. As you know Europeans are a raggedy bunch that need to be spoken to like a bunch of small school children. Eventually those at CU will graduate and move on. Hopefully others, a bit more intelligent and from families that were more selective with their breeding, will chose a path much smoother.
Until then be flexible like a bamboo grove and these fools will, in time, soon pass from the scene.
I'm sure your mother sees this country as one giant comedy and welcomes it for any reason other than the constant changing of who plays the fool. Along with a low profile I would also suggest getting a good seat.
February 27, 2008
12:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
rs0420 writes:
Kekepania- it's not about respect! It's about not reading what you don't like. It's that simple. "Mein Kampf" is a book about hating people but do you have to read it? No, you have a choice to read it or not read it.
February 27, 2008
12:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
zoos writes:
Man i hate white people
February 27, 2008
1:07 p.m.
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Theoldguy writes:
zoos
If you hate white people then why are you living where you're surrounded by them? This condition may be bad for your health.
February 27, 2008
1:08 p.m.
Suggest removal
SammyD writes:
"There should be limits on freedom of speech. This is a prime example."
Oh, THAT'S what we've fought for all these years. To have our freedom of speech taken away because someone was offended by satire. Jesus, people. Grow up.
I've got news: we don't get to choose when freedom of speech is allowed or not. Unless, of course, you want groups like the current administration to be able to control what you say and write.
February 27, 2008
1:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
HolierThanThou writes:
Free speech already has legal limits. Incitements of panic, violence, rioting, and other crimes is illegal.
How much of that did Max Karson's little jape incite?
About all I've seen is complaining.
Now we all know that there are college students who need education in civics 101, the Bill of Rights, and creative writing. I don't buy that Max Karson's stupidity should be cause for censorship. I would rather censor all those who say that he should be censored. You shut up first. Then we'll censor him. How about that?
If we go ahead with censorship then who gets to decide what's acceptable and what's not? I nominate Kim Jong Il. The man has experience in the job and knows how to shoot people who disagree with him. And he's Asian, which would be an added bonus for the people demanding censorship right now.
Now as for Max Karson, he is an idiot and should not be taken seriously. Does anyone honestly believe that Asians are going to be caught in large butterfly nets and forced to drink cheap beer or whatever it was that he suggested? Please...
Karson clearly has problems. If he knew anything about American history then he would not have written such an offense and moronic little piece of crap. Judging from his writing, I think it's clear he needs a program to help him with his substance abuse issues. Someone should take him aside and gently advise him to lay off the crack. Or maybe the exhaust system on his car has sprung a leak and his brain is deprived of oxygen.
If you don't like what he writes then disagree and criticize him. After all, there are probably idiots out there who are incapable of seeing through the ruse. They need you to enlighten them.
So, try growing some metaphorical testicles and apply your minds to the task instead of complaining that we all need a big nanny. Be careful, you might just get one.
February 27, 2008
1:33 p.m.
Suggest removal
Zinnia79 writes:
Freedom of Speech? How about Freedom of Color? People are so damn racist nowadays...how about Fu*k everybody! Fu*k Elwoood! There's a reason why a lot of people are pissed about Karson's article..it's hateful. So all you dumb people who says it's just freedom of speech...is just plain ignorant. Peace Out!
February 27, 2008
1:37 p.m.
Suggest removal
wow writes:
Ottis
In terms of dealing with some one, on a man to man basis, you enter into that association with basic respect for him as a person. You have respect for his personal space, his property, and his name when you remember it.
Having a basic attitude of respect for strangers you have nothing to do with is no different. It's not political correctness to avoid poking fun at an entire race of people...it's just good manners. In our reactionary stance against the rightly named thought police, we have abandoned common sense and good manners all together, and have become genuinely mean people.
That satirical op-ed piece was useless tripe with no meaning. Maybe Asians act wierd and are good at math...so, what's the point?
Are they arrogant? Lets talk about that idea. Lets make progress...but why be in the journalism business if what you really want to do is make off color jokes?
And why should any one be the target of off color jokes in a news publication created by thier own peers for their own consumption?
Racism is a reality that we all participate in, and to one degree or another it will always be with us. We need to speak respectfully to eachother about it. The op-ed writer didn't understand that, evidently, and now he's being schooled. His editors too. Rather than simply reacting, changing the subject to free speech, and who should grow a thicker skin, we should listen.
BTW---Freedom of speech does, and has always had limits. The first amandment is not being threatened in any way. The topic under discussion is the appropriate venue for racial satire.
February 27, 2008
1:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
fcatalina writes:
Just a reminder to all you "The leftist PC police have gone too far" types. Censorship is not a left/right issue. You are either for censorship or against it.
Many leftists are pro-censorship. This article gives us a prime example. The student who is quoted as saying this is an example of why limits should be placed on free speech is pro-censorship. Many of his compatriots would likely be marching if a (add diversity adjective here: gay, black, latino) book were banned at CU, rightly claiming censorship had wrongly occurred.
Many rightists are pro-censorship. Guiliani trying to shut down the art exhibit that depicted the Virgin Mary through the medium of cow dung springs to mind. Conservatives also like to censor news organizations from publishing information about secretive government programs and don't want children to read about anything having to do with homosexuality. These people, like the student quoted above, are pro-censorship.
Leftists and rightists can be pro-censorship. If you are against censorship, you are willing to hear things you don't like. This is not a political issue.
February 27, 2008
1:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
wow writes:
Polit-
The protesters in this matter are idiological heirs to book burning Hitler youth? Allow me to point out please that the Hitler youth never burned books written to make fun of the Jews. That would have been a bit silly, wouldn't it?
Amazing how fast Godwin's Law needs to be invoked on this thread.
Reductio ad Hitlerum---The argument is hereby refuted.
February 27, 2008
2:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
HolierThanThou writes:
MileHighGirl,
I know you're upset, but let's clear up the confusion between stupid speech and freedom of speech, OK?
Karson practiced stupid speech. Freedom of speech protects his right to show off how stupid he is. Freedom of speech also protects the right of those who take Karson seriously to show off how stupid they are.
Freedom of speech also protects my right to point out how stupid censorship is and to mock and poke fun at those who advocate it.
See the difference?
Let me know if you have any further questions.
February 27, 2008
2:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
ExploitAsian writes:
This is not an issue of free speech. "Satire" is not the issue. The issue is journalistic integrity. Nothing more. The Campus Press is trying to redefine and spin this issue because they know they have no journalistic integrity. They are just a wannabe paper with wannabe journalistic standards. Karson obviously wants to be a comedy writer rather than a journalist. So let him. Fire him. Let him write for the Onion. He'll make bank. As for Campus Press, fire the entire editorial staff, and get people who will focus on words like "journalism" and "truth" rather than wasting time trying to define "satire".
February 27, 2008
3:02 p.m.
Suggest removal
LadyArwyn writes:
Does no one understand that Max isn't making fun of Asians, he's parodying a "reasoned racism" argument! He's trying to make racists look stupid. Unfortunately he mangled it.
February 27, 2008
3:31 p.m.
Suggest removal
ExploitAsian writes:
Since everyone is having trouble understanding the real issue, here is how the article was READ. See it from out perspective:
“If it's war the chinks want…”
Since I transferred to CU last year, I've noticed some tension between the white students and the chink students. There's never any outright conflict, but I notice little things. Like, chinks always seem surprised whenever I talk to them. They stare at me for a few seconds as though I must have made some mistake, and once they realize I'm intentionally speaking to them, they aren't always thrilled.
On the other hand, white people are quick to ridicule chinks. They have no problem with making demeaning remarks about their looks, mannerisms, and accents-things they would never say about black people.
So when a chink refuses to make eye contact with me or dismisses me with a one-word sentence, I just say to myself, "Max, chinks are not evil cyborgs. They're human, just like you. And if you were a minority student in a sea of walnut-brained business majors and skiers, you'd be crabby, too."
But last week, I had an epiphany...
Contact Campus Press staff editor Max Karson at max.karson@colorado.edu
February 27, 2008
3:33 p.m.
Suggest removal
ExploitAsian writes:
I'm going to start calling up all the people who advertise with Campus Press and ask them why they support bad journalism?
February 27, 2008
3:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
rs0420 writes:
ExploitAsain- give me a break! Get over it!
February 27, 2008
3:59 p.m.
Suggest removal
ExploitAsian writes:
rs0420 - You're right. I should be the passive Asian person you are used to. You're right. I should be politically passive. You're right, Asian opinions don't matter. Only drunk college students who have nothing better to right should have the freedom of speech.
February 27, 2008
4:03 p.m.
Suggest removal
HolierThanThou writes:
ExploitAsian,
This is an issue of free speech because you're demanding that people be censored and/or fired for something that was published. So, stop your lying.
Such denials only make you look like Bush. Do you want to be like Bush? Giving censorship a pretty little euphemism like "journalistic integrity" certainly puts you in the same league as Karl Rove and Bush. But don't expect all of us to be so easily fooled. We've had eight years of that crap and only the stupidest 35% still buy it. And by now, a few of those probably have doubts.
Firing editors, reporters, columnists, and others because someone wrote something you don't like is still censorship.
So, here's my suggestion (politely rephrased from above): if you like censorship so much then start with yourself and STFU.
February 27, 2008
4:04 p.m.
Suggest removal
ONEman writes:
Boy you sure are an intelligent bunch a rednecks. Have we not learned anything about hate with the recent campus shootings. It starts off as free speech, then he shaves his head, with boots and swastikas to follow.Then he buys into the white men take America back for the "superior race" and all that garbage. If free speech promotes hate I say stick it up your A**.
February 27, 2008
4:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
ExploitAsian writes:
This is not about choice to read what you want. This is not about satire. This is not about freedom of speech. There are REAL problems that the Colorado Asian community is dealing with: rise of Asian suicides, immigration issues, health care issues, organization losing funds, illiteracy, etc. We don't need satire, we need journalistic integrity, we need truth. If you want satire, write for the Onion or the Daily. Karson is not a real journalist, he's a wannabe. And the Campus Press is a wannabe paper playing journalism. Like the typical college student, rather than report the truth, they want to have fun.
February 27, 2008
4:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
rs0420 writes:
ExploitAsian-
It's funny to me that what one moron writes in the paper gets your panties in a bunch. I think you should take a look at other issues in the world and quit worrying about this stupid article. All these issues you say are happening with the Asian community is happening to many other races as well. You make it sound like Asian's are the only ones with real problem and everybody else is imagining their problems. If the Campus Press is not a real paper than why is this even an issue? Obviously since they are not a real paper nobody reads it anyways.
February 27, 2008
4:17 p.m.
Suggest removal
ExploitAsian writes:
I am not demanding censorship. I want no goverment official. I don't even want them to retract the story, or fire Karson. I'm saying Karson, and the Campus Press needs to acknowledge that the article was just poor writing rather than hiding behind the shield of free speech. This is not a free speech issue. It's an intelligence issue. There are far more important things about the Asian community he could have written about, and I'm simply voicing my opinion about his opinion. And if the advertisers don't share my opinion, so be it. It's not a matter of free speech. The quality of journalism in general has gone down the drain lately, and the Campus Press is just another participant.
February 27, 2008
4:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
ONEman writes:
ExAsian are you really expecting this bunch of yahoos to be sympathetic to non-white American issues? Won't happen with hateful tater tots like the ones who post most of the time. What's with the chink word? If you don't want them to say it don't put it out there.
February 27, 2008
4:22 p.m.
Suggest removal
ExploitAsian writes:
rs0420 - You are one of those guys who refuses to see a problem unless it directly effects you. Yes, the problems that Asians face are being experienced by many other groups, but that does not make it irrilavant. You are basically saying that if a woman gets raped she has no right to complain because the woman in other parts of the world suffer. That is a ridiculous argument and you know it. And I'm only focusing on this issue as much as you are so you might want to pull your panties too :-) Look, I've always been advocacy of free speech. Again, that's not the issue. Journalist have standards. Karson followed none, and neither did the Campus Press. The CP even admitted they made a mistake. Ignoring problems and minimizing the issue may make you sound clever Rs420, but you're really not saying anything relevant...just like Karson :-)
February 27, 2008
4:23 p.m.
Suggest removal
rs0420 writes:
Oneman- Living in this world promotes hate. You see it everyday in one form or another. But we, as rational human beings, should be able to differentiate one's opinion from the truth.
February 27, 2008
4:26 p.m.
Suggest removal
ONEman writes:
never mind I see that was a quote from the article. Sorry. Poor journalism is an understatement.
February 27, 2008
4:26 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
ONEman - I don't know who these people are. I just know they care enough to post and discuss. I didn't say I don't want them to say "chink". I'm just saying that's how it was perceived. That's all I'm trying to convey: What my response is to Karsons opinion. He has the right to print what he want, and I have the right to talk to CPs advertisers, and rs240 has the right to say what he wants.
But this is all a distraction. CP lacks journalistic standards. Event they admitted in a press release today. The one thing I haven't seen, however is, what's this racial tension at CU that Karson was eluding to prior to the release of the article? Isn't that the real story? Is he referring to Virginia Tech? That to me is the interesting story, yet no one has published anything about it to date. Like I said, CP keeps dropping the ball.
February 27, 2008
4:31 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
rs0420 - thanks for agreeing that CP is not a real paper. But they can be. And when I went to CU, I loved the variety of opinions that the paper. Even if I disagreed with the opinion, I never wanted them to ban it, or censor it or anything like that. What I'm arguing for is better journalistic standards. Nothing more. Surely we can both agree to that. And you are right, there are important issues out there that many groups suffer from. Karson decided to ignore it and just make something up instead under the banner of satire. Like I said, typical lazy college student mentality: they find the truth too hard to report so they just make something up instead.
February 27, 2008
4:31 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
rs0420 Oneman- Living in this world promotes hate.
That is up to the individual promoting it(usually a lonely loser with no friends who need a reason to hate everyone else as much as they hate themselves. But I guess if that's how you wanna live this beautiful life, that's really your problem. Sad and pathetic to say the least.
February 27, 2008
4:31 p.m.
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rs0420 writes:
If the article wouldn't have gotten the attention it has, do you really think the CP would have said anything about it? And by the way, I AM ASIAN as well. I just don't think that what some young ignorant punk says in his own opinion has relevance. And I by no means said that the Asian issues don't matter. You are the one that made it sound like the Asian problems are the only thing to worry about. And don't compare this article written by Karson to a woman being raped. That's like comparing oranges to apples.
February 27, 2008
4:36 p.m.
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rs0420 writes:
ONEboy- So now it comes down to personal attacks, huh? Real mature, yahoo.
February 27, 2008
4:37 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
I did'nt mean you specifically I meant the hater at hand. Sorry.
February 27, 2008
4:39 p.m.
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rs0420 writes:
Apology accepted.
February 27, 2008
4:39 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
rs0420 - You're right. Karson's article has no comparison to a woman being raped. THAT's my point. There are more important issues to talk write about in a newspaper. He's ignoring real issues.
And I don't really care if you're Asian or not. I said you are the type of person who doesn't care unless it directly effects you. This article does not effect you therefor you are trying to minimize. But then why do you keep commenting on it? Hmmm. So I guess it's impacting you somehow. If this controversy was truly irrelvant to you, you would've logged off long ago. Regardless, this issue does affect me because I'm a journalist, and as a journalist, I'm appalled at the lack of journalistic standards at CP.
And I never said only Asian issues matter. I said there are more important Asian issues that could have been covered, but ignored by Karson and staff. Karson has the right to his opinions. He has the right to publish them. I don't care about those issues. CP should stop considering themselves journalists. And I take back what I said about Karson working for the Onion. I know folks at the Onion, and Karson isn't smart or funny enough.
February 27, 2008
4:43 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
I'm curious is'nt it a journalists job to give neutral information and leave the reader to make up their own mind. Or something to that nature, I thought I heard something like that in school once. Can you enlighten me a little Exasian. Thank you.
February 27, 2008
4:43 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
Rs0420 - As for attention, CP put out a timeline of how the article got published. They admitted they decided to go forward, not because it'll bring the racial tension issue out (which I still don't know much about) AND get them publicity through the controversy. At the same time, however, I think they were afraid because they don't know what kind of publicity it will give them. The average person may think there is no such thing as bad publicity, well, tell that to Howard Dean okay :-)
BTW - Does anyone know what this racial tension Karson was elduing to PRIOR to article being released? Or was that made up, too. Perhaps if Karson were a better writer, and CP team were better editors, I wouldn't have to ask this questions.
February 27, 2008
4:47 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
ONEman - Technically a journalist should be unbiased, and technically it's nearly impossible to be unbiased. This was a opinion piece. So we have to start there. So Karson can say what he wants, just like on FoxNews. The CP can technically print what they want in the name of opinion or satire, just like the Onion. That's NOT THE ISSUE.
This is just a case of bad writing and bad satire. He was the right to write bad satire, and CP has the right to publish bad satire. But that has nothing to do with good journalism.
February 27, 2008
4:47 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
The reason athlete/engineers like my cousin chose to attend Arizona better. Well and the weather too and to get away from Mom and Dad so he can party but still he mentioned the racism CU is known for.
February 27, 2008
4:48 p.m.
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rs0420 writes:
I keep commenting because your responses humor me so much. And the article being about Asians does effect me. I just choose to pick my battles over something just a little more important. But I do agree that the journalistic standards are far below par. I've seen it in real papers such as the Rocky Mountain News. It's media in general that need to get the facts straight and the real truth.
February 27, 2008
4:54 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
Are unbiased and one sided the same thing? Everyone has an opinion but nobody is always right. Should'nt journalists show more humility in their craft, I would think to honor the integrity of it. But that's just me. Whoever runs that paper must be a moron to think that would'nt offend people.
February 27, 2008
4:57 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
real papers such as the Rocky Mountain News. LMAO
What is "real"? If you are saying the RMN does it also, then I agree, watch anytime the news involves Hisapnics or Blacks. Front page with a mugshot no doubt.
February 27, 2008
4:59 p.m.
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rs0420 writes:
All news does it!
February 27, 2008
5:01 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
So I guess that makes it "ALLWHITE"(alright) then does'nt it?
February 27, 2008
5:01 p.m.
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rs0420 writes:
Thanks for the laugh.
February 27, 2008
5:10 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
Journalistic integrity has gone way down the tubes. Think about it. You can't turn on the TV all they talk about is what Paris, Brittney, and Bradgelina are up to. Or they cover a sound bite from a politician, but I have no idea what the actual policies they are pushing. Instead of having local journalist cover important stories, they're just barfing up what they're national affiliated, like Fox, are telling them to say.
Yes, I know, I know. Nothing new I guess.
As for fighting small battles versus big battles...I guess that's subjective, and I'll keep it at that ;-)
The CP issue is just a microcosm what what's happening in other parts of media field.
Asian issues, in general, are ignored relative to other minority based issues. Affirmative Action? Let's interview the black lady. Immigration issues? Let's interview the Hispanic guy. Ironically, the newscaster interviewing them is alwasy Asian (I know, I know. Sterogype).
Did you know, for example, Nielson rating only take into account what black, hispanics, and whites think about television. They don't even have a category for Asian. If you don't believe me, ask one of those freaks that ask you to watch movie trailers at the mall. They have the paperwork to prove it. That's right, Nielson believes that Asian opinions provide "significant data."
It is this same shared belief about Asians why Karson probably thought he could getaway with it. Same with CP. Since it is an opinion piece, there really was no obligation for CP to print it. It was just they're right. And with that right comes responsibilities. There were many issues that could have been given to that space (both Asian and non-Asian issues).
Karson deliberate chose to not to write about them, and CP deliberately chose to not print them.
And those are the only issues. Everything else is just spin from groups who want to attach themselves to this story, and I'm including the company I keep.
February 27, 2008
5:17 p.m.
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rs0420 writes:
Well said, ExploitAsian, well said.
February 27, 2008
5:30 p.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
ONEman,
Thanks for the made up rubbish about how freedom of speech foments mass murder. This let's us know that you're coming from a position of irrational fear. Not one massacre in the history of the United States of America can be solely attributed to the exercise of free speech. Massacres come from the exercise of insanity and a lack of critical reasoning when it rears its ugly head. So, more killing happens when people are not allowed to express their misgivings or choose not to in the face of collective insanity.
Murderers sometimes publicize their intentions prior to committing their crimes. But the speech alone is not the cause of their madness. It is merely one expression of it. Not all murderers publicize their intentions. So, there is no easy rule for judging the likelihood of a massacre based on casual speech.
If you would bother to read American history since 1776, you will find that there is only one group of people, and only one, who never had a significant grievance of one form or another during that time. Calling them white is not accurate. Try calling them wealthy families. Better yet, use their names. Let's be precise.
It doesn't matter what color skin you have. Everyone has some history of troubles and conflict. Some worse than yours and some not so bad. Irish weren't even considered "white" when they came. Germans were persecuted. Eastern Europeans were exploited in the Chicago packing houses. Many Africans came here in chains to be slaves. Native Americans were massacred and then had their culture nearly erased.
Even dumbass rednecks were exploited by their own ignorance in the Civil War. They fought for the rights of wealthy plantation owners to keep slaves, an evil luxury which precious few of those rednecks would ever have been able to afford. Many of them are still being fooled today. Look at all the Confederate flags. It's a badge of the exploited stupid, not "state's rights". Millions of them were maimed or died for the lost cause, which would have given them less than a handful of horsedung had they won.
Getting upset over a stupid joke will never help your cause. If anything, I predict that if you all get hysterical enough about Max Karson's piece of work then you could elevate his notoriety to the national stage.
I, for one, would rather not see that happen.
February 27, 2008
5:39 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
Did you know, for example, Nielson rating only take into account what black, hispanics, and whites think about television.
I would take that as a compliment ExploitAsian.
I actually think they play to the dummies who spend ALL their time watching TV who are mostly black and hispanic (I'm guilty). The stereo type is that Asians watch their own channel or are to busy working or pursuing something of substance such as an education,trade or perfecting an art.That's just how I perceive you as a people very peaceful and ambitious. No time for TV and especially not the mega-drama and crap that's on most of the time.
February 27, 2008
5:45 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
Holier thank for all your rubbish about how hateful freedom of speech somehow is a good thing and if anything divides us as a people. There is no good to come out of it. I was more saying that freedom of speech should be cherished as an honorable virue not a fork tongued viper. Do you feel me? Love not hate, light to the dark (thinking not skin color). It's something honorable why slander it with hate?
February 27, 2008
5:52 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
Oh and by the way I don't allow fear or hate to cloud my thinking. I have no fear of hate or it's cheerleaders. I'm just acknowledging the ignorance of it. And it starts with racist rantings and evolves into innocent people being hurt. But I also honor my right to bear arms so I have no reason to fear what I can shoot. Don't get it confused there guy.
February 27, 2008
6:07 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
HolierThanThou - Oh, my God. Haven't we heard this argument too many times: because others have sufferings worse than our our suffering doesn't matter. That's so illogical on so many levels.
If it doesn't matter to you, why are you commenting on it? It matters to me, that's why I'm commenting on it. See how logic works? ABC's and 123's are tomorrow.
I am not of the belief that because racism is not a "national stage" that the problem doesn't matter. I don't care about the national stage. What I care about are journalist wasting time writing jokes when, AS YOU SAID, there are more important things going around.
Stop spinning the issue and focus on what the actual story is. The writer thought making fun of Asians is good journalism/satire. The editor agreed, and decided to publish. There is a public outcry from the readers. I'd rather have active readers than brain dead ones, wouldn't you agree?
This is not hysteria. That is another red herring.
This is about journalism. It's about good journalism vs. bad journalism. I don't know how making fun of Asians, satire or not, is good journalism. And if you think it's good journalism...well, you're entitled to that opinion. That's right, no censorship. You have a right to say what you want, and Karson has a right to say what he said.
But it's still bad journalism at the end of the day.
Don't forget, these are student who made a big editorial mistake. Do you want them to go on and become real reporters with these so called journalistic standards.
I think both Karson and the editor should step down. They obviously don't know what they are doing.
February 27, 2008
6:09 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
And bad journalism does have immediate real life consequences.
February 27, 2008
6:22 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
Also, even Karson said that he didn't consider the article a joke. He said that he thought was a serious satire about racial tensions that was on campus (BEFORE the article came out). So it's not a silly little joke, and it's like a silly little article. THEY thought it serious, and "controversial" was the Campus Press used.
You should read on the current history of what's going on with THIS issue rather than trying to lead us into red herring, and trying to show off your so-called knowledge of American history.
There are problems we all suffer from regardless of race. There are issues, however, that are unique to each group. I don't think anyone ever asked an African-American if he knows how to speak English in a really slow and demeaning manner. On the other hand, Asians may not know what it's like for certain groups of blacks who are constantly pulled over for no apparent reason other than the fact they are black.
I don't know any issues that are unique to white people I'm not saying there aren't any, I just don't know what they are. I didn't realize that white people are more often than not rejected for a job because of race? I didn't know that white people are more often than night automatically accused of being a gang banger because of the way they are dressed. I didn't realize that white people always get confused for another white person at work. I didn't realize that white people are constantly asked if that's they last name or first name. I didn't realize that white people were so well versed on the plight of Asians.
I guess that's why Karson wrote what he wrote, and the editor approved it. They are experts on the minority plight. Thank you Campus Press. I would have written those articles myself, but I have you instead. Beside, my English not so good ;-D
February 27, 2008
6:29 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
If you don't understand why Asians are upset, the least you could do not trivialize racial issues. There is nothing trivial about racism or discrimination, in any form. Racism is like a mental cancer. It causes people to think irrationally, and therefor behave irrationally. I'm not saying racist thoughts lead to violence. I'm saying racist thoughts lead to racists action: discrimination based on color, race, gender, etc.
This specific type of irrational thinking leads to specific irrational actions. Like minimizing and trivializing the plight of others.
This article is not the most important issue of the world, or even of the hour. But it is important, as opposed to be being not important. And it's not of small importance. It is of great importance because these are future journalists we are talking about, who will go on working for major networks. And if you think being laxed about journalistic integrity has not impact, you haven't been watching the news....you've been brainwashed by it.
February 27, 2008
7:17 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
Here are excerpts from the original Karson article. Is this journalism? Is this funny? Should people who find this funny be university journalists?
Part 1:
"If it's war the chinks want…"
Since I transferred to CU last year, I've noticed some tension between the white students and the chink students. There's never any outright conflict, but I notice little things. Like, chinks always seem surprised whenever I talk to them. They stare at me for a few seconds as though I must have made some mistake, and once they realize I'm intentionally speaking to them, they aren't always thrilled.
On the other hand, white people are quick to ridicule chinks. They have no problem with making demeaning remarks about their looks, mannerisms, and accents-things they would never say about black people.
So when a chink refuses to make eye contact with me or dismisses me with a one-word sentence, I just say to myself, "Max, chinks are not evil cyborgs. They're human, just like you. And if you were a minority student in a sea of walnut-brained business majors and skiers, you'd be crabby, too."
But last week, I had an epiphany.
After my friend and I finished working our abs at the Rec Center, we decided to head upstairs to tighten our buns on the StairMaster. As we walked down the hallway, a rubber ball bounced out of one of the racquetball courts and landed at the feet of a chink in front of us. He picked up the ball and leaned over the railing of the court nearest to him.
February 27, 2008
7:19 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
Original Karson article part 2:
The chink stared at me blankly for another second, and then he looked back down into the court next to him and offered them the ball again.
"That's not our ball," the guy called up.
"Excuse me," I said. The chink whipped his head around and scowled at me. "I think it goes to that court."
He paused a few seconds, and then he said, in a perfect American accent, "Okay," and tossed the ball into the court next to me.
That's when it hit me.
The chink was so jaded by his experiences with the whitebread, brainless tree sloths of CU that even though three people had explained to him that he was trying to return the ball to the wrong court, it was inconceivable to him that we might be right.
And when he looked into my eyes, it wasn't just irritation and disgust that I saw-it was hate. Pure hate.
I'm such a fool for not realizing it sooner. I can't tell you how many times the chinks have treated me like a retarded weasel and I've forgiven them. But now I know that chinks are not just "a product of their environment," and their rudeness is not a "cultural misunderstanding."
They hate us all.
And I say it's time we started hating them back. That's right-no more "tolerance." No more "cultural sensitivity." No more "Mr. Pretend-I'm-Not-Racist."
It's time for war.
But we won't attack their bodies or minds. We will attack their souls.
The first step, or "Phase 1," is to find them all. Anyone who is interested in signing up to volunteer can do so by e-mailing me. Next Sunday at noon, we will all meet at Farrand Field. Each volunteer will be issued an extra-large butterfly net.
The hunt will then begin.
When I blow my whistle, we will scatter in every direction and catch as many chinks as possible. Make sure to pay special attention to the Rec Center, the UMC, the math and engineering buildings and Lollicup. If you're not sure if someone is a chink, give them a calculus problem to do in their head. If they get it right, net 'em.
Captured chinks will be dragged to my apartment on the Hill and hog-tied. Once they're all secured in my living room, "Phase 2" will come into effect.
The chinks' reformation will begin with a 100-round beer pong tournament. They will listen to "It's a Small World" on repeat while they play.
When the tournament is finished, the chinks will then be forced to eat bad sushi from Hapa-with forks. When all the sushi is gone, they will be permitted to sleep for four hours, but the entire time I will shout through a megaphone, over and over, "Why didn't you make enough Wiis?!"
February 27, 2008
7:19 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
Original Karson article: final part.
In the morning, the chinks will arrange themselves in rows, if they haven't naturally done so already. I will stand in front of them and hold up a card with the name of an emotion on it such as, "sad," or "surprised." The chinks must then make a facial expression to match the word on the card. Any chink who remains deadpan or makes the wrong face will be tickled until they pee. When all chinks make the correct face at the same time, the game will end, but then they will be yelled at for being conformists.
The chinks will then be allowed to play "Dance Dance Revolution." However, the game will be rigged so that the chinks will receive no points, regardless of how robotically they dance.
Any chink who tries to escape will be butterfly-netted and sent back to my apartment for another "Phase 2." Anyone caught speaking any language other than English will be kissed on the lips.
Once the chink spirit has been broken, "Phase 3" will begin. Before we let the chinks go, we will go to their homes and redecorate them in a traditional American style. We will replace their rice cookers with George Foreman Grills, their green tea mochi with fried Snickers bars, and their rice rockets with Hummers. And booster seats.
When "Phase 3" is complete, the chinks will be released.
Now, I understand that this plan may upset some of you chink readers, but the only other way to make peace would be to expel you. If you're smart, you'll turn yourselves in now, and it will all be over in a few days.
Besides, look on the bright side-we're not going to put you through anything we haven't put ourselves through, and we all turned out fine.
Contact Campus Press staff editor Max Karson at max.karson@colorado.edu
February 27, 2008
7:50 p.m.
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Oh_Wise_One writes:
ExploitAsian- this Karson should get the same punishment that the doofus at CSU got for his F*ck Bush. Hmmmm? Howz about that. Nothing. Free speech for thee but not for me.
February 27, 2008
8:10 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
Journalists love to scrutinize politicians and put their words under a microscope. Journalists don't seem to like it when the shoe is on the other foot.
February 27, 2008
8:21 p.m.
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Jim_in_Erie writes:
Choe and the others want CU to foster a campus that is "built on mutual respect for one another, and not mere tolerance."
The very idea that there be mandatory "mutual respect for one another, not 'mere' tolerance" is the truly frightening thing about this offended group.
That you will be vilified if you don't show "respect" for someone else, or their 'culture', is based upon the obviously silly notion that all persons, their ideas and culture, are equal. And who exactly is to determine when the "proper" amount of respect is shown is unclear, but I would guess that the "offended" group/person demands the right to that determination.
As others have noted, the liberal elements of this country, particularly in the 'higher education' institutions have used the free speech argument to bash President Bush for 7 years now.
Grow a skin, heck, grow up.
I can't stand the opinion's of Paul Campos.....SO I DON"T READ HIS CRAP.
See, it's not really all that complicated, is it?
February 27, 2008
8:21 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
Free speech with limits is UNFREE speech.
February 27, 2008
8:24 p.m.
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arby writes:
Man you guys are way out of control. Take a deep breath, all of you.
First of all a bunch of you stole my best line
" How can it be freedom of speech if it has limits?"
Does anyone know where the word "Chinks" came from? It derived from the Mandarin word for please "Qing" which is what the Chinese say in front of every request. And there were a lot of qings being said back in "the day" Whatever that means. I guess it means good old days if you're whitey. Bad old days if you're not. I've never seen any footage of American Asians burning the city they live in. Watts. I've never seen American Asians parading with another country's flag on some other country's non-holiday. Se Cinco de Mayo.
We are all Americans no hyphen and the sooner we get it together the better off all of us will be.
In closing I think the author of the CU article is a total ass but he has a right to be a total ass the same as you and me. BTW, I'm as white as the driven snow.
February 27, 2008
8:32 p.m.
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BillORights writes:
We do not need to limit free speech, but only need to counter it with -again- free speech.
You do not like what someone has written, write back.
unatly many people have not progressed.
Words If you disagree that what they say is true, then provide research facts, and figures to the contrary. freedom of speech, peer review are essential to an open democratic society.
Satire is a catagory of free speech, including racial issue satire.
In example, Archie Bunker was a satire of a working class white male, ex marine, and INCREDIBLE racist who was a Typical product of his time.
His son-n-law was a satire of a hippie intellectual perpetual college student and INCREDIBLE liberal who was also a complete product of his time.
The real joke was that they were really the same person.
If they were born in the others crib they would have used the same word and arguements only in the oposite mouths.
But what is different, what was isn't satire, are the very real experieces, such as a woman and her children being rounded up and put into a horse stable with her children while Archie Bunkers took shots for kicks into the stable from time to time because she and her family were of Japanise decent. This happened in the land of the free, while we were fighting Nazis in Germany. See above blog for that one.
Mel Brooks could make satire from that.
(Come on now, dont be a smarty, come and join the nazi party!)
written by Jewish New Yorker and VERY VERY anti Nazi.
feel free to satirize above lyrics in your best attempt at a Brooklyn Yiddish accent.
Laughing at racism is anti racist.
Bad satire can hurt.Even if the intentions are good.
Write better satire.
Writing well is hard work.
Real progress has been made. Regressions, such as Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay have also been made.
Rather than censure a satire, write, think, and hopefully progress.
February 27, 2008
8:38 p.m.
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BillORights writes:
I want to censure adverbs.
like the censure in Catch 22.
February 27, 2008
8:56 p.m.
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Heidi writes:
GWM, Where are you? We've lost jdub...
February 27, 2008
9:08 p.m.
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galty writes:
Bravo Chris Choe!
Ban words that are hurtful.
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but mean words are really hurtful.
We cannot tolerate hurtful words. We must censure and expel if necessary those who utter hurtful words. I'd prefer if we could do that quite nicely, though.
February 27, 2008
9:16 p.m.
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RegusPatoff writes:
What most folks in the People's Republic of Boulder seem to always miss is that Free Speech does not mean speech without consequence (remember F*+K BUSH?). When this type of garbage disguised as journalism or weak satire finally drives all of the revenue away (i.e. advertisers, university donors, et. al), then maybe the editorial staff will think twice about printing whatever comes their way. And if the University decides to implement restrictions, also known as standards, to nix this kind of garbage, it is not censorship or free speech violation, folks... it's simply smart. It doesn't involve any laws or legal ramifications, only ethics. The Univ. of Colorado needs to pull its head out of its rear end and get smart. This is not journalism.
The bottom line is that Free Speech must remain without limits, legally. However, all speech needs accountability. Just because you have the right to say and print anything you want (aside from treason), does not mean that you can do it without any consequence if you piss off a whole bunch of people. ANY attempt to legislate the issue is a blatant violation of the Constitution, which has been beaten and hacked to death by our society and special interests.
What part of "Congress shall make no law..." do you not understand? This applies to Free Speech, the right to bear arms and all of the other guarantees of the Bill of Rights.
This isn't a Liberal or a Conservative isssue --it's one of intelligence... something apparently lacking at the University of Colorado these days. If you're offended, then either write back, as some others have suggested, but do it intelligently. Or you can also contact the advertisers of such publications and tell them you're no longer going to patronize their businesses... but STOP WHINING and READ the Constitution, for crying out loud and quit bastardizing the poor document.
February 27, 2008
9:36 p.m.
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EastVail writes:
Limitations on free speech. Ha!
While it is interesting that folks might propose that, fortunately the constitution trumps their idiocy.
February 27, 2008
9:47 p.m.
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mocus1 writes:
"We will no longer tolerate anyone who does not embrace diversity".......do you folks realize the Orwellian nature of this absurd statement?.......in other words,the folks who proclaim themselves the most "tolerant" are the most 'intolerant" of all......
February 27, 2008
10:26 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
I have the following questions:
1. Were there any more relevant, Asian/racial/campus stories that Karson could have chosen to write about? YES.
2. Could Karson have written better satire? YES.
3. Is Karson's world view old news? YES.
First, there are many people who want to try to minimize/trivialize this issue. There are people who want to spin this into dozens of other topics. At the end of the day, this is about journalism.
The reason why there is so much bad journalism today – constant obsession of mainstream news covering celebrity gossip for example – can all be traced back to poor journalism at the university level. That is why I’m so upset over this story.
This is not about free speech or limiting free speech. That's what the Campus Press wants us to believe. This is about good journalism versus bad journalism. Bad journalism is indefensible, and that’s what the Campus Press doesn’t want us to focus on.
I don't know if Karson is a racist, and I don’t care. He can believe whatever he wants just like the rest of us. Campus Press has the right to print what it wants.
That’s not what upsets me. What upsets me is when they try to defend bad writing and poor editorial decisions behind the banner of free speech. What upsets me is when they try to pass of Karson’s beliefs as showing “a diversity of opinions.” There is nothing diverse about his opinion. I’ve heard it all before, except normally there is a burning cross behind him.
Karson's writing is not going to win any awards, and he knows it. And how dare he compare his writing to The Daily Show or The Onion. Not even close bud. Karson’s rant is high school diary at best.
The editor knows it’s not great writing either, yet he still gave it a greenlight. This lack of judgment alone is enough question the editor’s journalistic standards. . There is nothing new about Karson’s point of view, it doesn’t explore any kind of truth, and doesn’t really say anything relevant. Is this really the best Campus Press could have written that day? It’s an online piece. Couldn’t they have said, “Karson, we think you can write better than this.”?
So what does Campus Press do? Instead of writing about the so called racial tension that allegedly sparked Karson’s rant, they write an article about the definition of the word “satire.” Um. You’re on a college campus, I think everyone either has a dictionary or knows about Google. Again, wasted printed space to defend bad journalism rather than focusing on important issues. Hey, can you look up the term “red herring”?
February 27, 2008
10:27 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
Oh, BTW. By defending it as a satire, they are admitting they found the material funny, or how could you call it a satire? Wow, a newspaper that admits making fun of Asians is funny. Is that good journalism?
It’s not about free speech. It’s not even about race. And it’s not about apologies. Right now, I have a hard time trusting any words that come from the Campus Press. Actions speak louder than words. Until Karson and the editor voluntarily and immediately step down from their position, I’m going to have a hard time trusting any words that come from the Campus Press.
February 27, 2008
10:32 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
Oh_Wise_One - I barely remember the F#CK BUSH incident at CSU. I was against it because, 1) it was an opinion piece by a very self-righteous wannabe editor, and 2) it had the F-word in the title.
Like I said, this is about journalistic responsibility, NOT about freedom of speech. One is about a professional responsibility, the other is inalienable red herring :-)
February 27, 2008
10:52 p.m.
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BillORights writes:
Charles Bukowski wrote much worse in weekly paper, including the rape of a nine year old by a drunk guy who lived alone and sounded disturblingly like...Charles Bukowski.
Rather than bitching about this article, write your own damn stuff.
or get over it.
February 27, 2008
11:16 p.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
I expect the truth from journalist, as naive as that sounds. I expect them to report something that is true, accurate, and relevant. I don't care if it comes in the form of a comic strip, a blog, or a story in The Onion. I think The Onion has more integrity than the Campus Press to tell you the truth; talk about good satire and good writing.
February 28, 2008
1:42 a.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
Wow. Comparing Karson to Bukowlski? Really? Karson equivalent to Bukowlski? Really? Bukowslki was a writer...no, a God. He was not a de-evolved journalist.
February 28, 2008
1:42 a.m.
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ExploitAsian writes:
MAX KARSON’S PET PROJECT: A SATIRE
I was walking out of Illegal Pete’s the other day, when I happened to see Max Karson come out of the women’s restroom.
I didn’t say anything. I figured Max Karson has a right to do what he wants. It’s not like he’s violated an actual law. So I decided to do the stereotypical Asian thing, and just keep my opinion to myself.
“Hey, aren’t you Max Karson?” I asked.
“Wow, I’m so glad you recognized me. I’ve worked very hard to get recognized in public,” Max bragged.
“So…where ya headed Max?” Not that I actually cared. Just making polite conversation.
“Well, coincidentally, I’m off to buy a dog,” giving me a little nudge.
“What do you mean, ‘coincidentally’?” I nudged back.
“You’re people are experts on dog, no?”
I was about to say something, but then I decided he had a right to his opinion, and once again, I decided to do the stereotypical thing, and just keep my opinion to myself.
“Why are you getting a dog?” I diverted.
“Well, let me ask you this: do you think if I put peanut butter on my butt, and made the puppy lick me, would that be controversial?”
Did he really ask me that? I couldn’t have heard that correctly. How would one not know if that would be controversial?
“Sure.” I said I my most non-judgmental voice. After all, he’s only talking about it. It’s not like he’s actually going to do this, right? It’s just talk. So, he has the right to say what he is or is not going to do. So I said nothing.
“So you think it would get a lot of attention?” Max asked.
“Definitely. Especially with that recent Arvada dog case,” I said.
“What dog case?”
“You know. Rolo, the German shepherd that might get euphonized?”
It’s been all over the papers. I don’t even own a dog, and I know about it.
Max just had a blank look on his face. Then his face lit up as if he had just reached enlightenment.
“That’s perfect!” he exclaimed, “I can say it’s a satire about putting animals down. And it’ll get a lot of press, which means more people will know about me,” he explained.
I was going to tell him that perhaps he should rethink his position, but that would be self-righteous of me, wouldn’t it? I mean, it’s just satire, right? It’s not like he actually DID anything. It’s just talk, right?
Max turned around and went back into the women’s restroom, “I need to think about this more.”
I wanted to stop him, but who am I to tell him what’s right and what’s wrong? He’s entitled to his opinion. It’s not like he actually DID anything. He’s just talking for now, right?
So I decided to do the stereotypical Asian thing, and just keep my opinion to myself.
February 28, 2008
2:50 a.m.
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politwriter writes:
You WILL be tolerant and you WILL embrace diversity ----OR ELSE!!
February 28, 2008
5:58 a.m.
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Oh_Wise_One writes:
ExploitingAsian- This Karson thing is exactly the same thing as the 'F*ck Bush', the only difference is the number of words. You're offended by the ridiculous "satire", I was offended by the CSU incident. But, they both have the right to offend me, and you. They lowered the standards of the press to new lows and I didn't think that was possible.
I do agree that those editorials should never have made it into the college papers but what do you get with minimum wage? ? Exactly.
February 28, 2008
6 a.m.
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Oh_Wise_One writes:
ExAsian- Before you think I am agreeing with you, let me clarify. Those editorials should never have made it past the editors but once they were printed, you should shut up.
February 28, 2008
7:02 a.m.
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italiaboy9 writes:
This is what happens when you piss off the people that own us. Shoot, I hope they dont sabotage my japanese car on my way home from work (oh wait, I drive American..hehe).
February 28, 2008
7:48 a.m.
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Ottis writes:
wow -
Sorry, I disagree. Respect isn't assumed. What you term respect isn't that at all. You're basically describing inertia, that is, you meet someone, you don't do anything untoward (steal their stuff, call them names, attack them), you move on. Nowhere in that interaction is "respect" required. I can't respect you if I don't know you. If a judge called you into court, pointed at a convicted murdered whom you didn't know and knew nothing about and said, "do you respect this man," you canot say "yes" and if you did because of some odd understanding of the word "respect,' you would soon learn how wrong you were. True respect is earned. It isn't automatic. And in the case of this column, it is not about respecting anything ... it is far more about taking offense and demanding someone cater to what you perceive as an offense in the NAME of respect. That's a guise that has been used for decades by some groups, and it's an easy knee-jerk reaction that the media feeds on. But in this case, it isn't applicable.
February 28, 2008
8:30 a.m.
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O_TRAIN writes:
BillORights - thanks for the Bukowski reference - perfect. If anyone knows Bukowski - they would know he wrote with truth/integrity from his experiences and it was not "politically correct" and I'm sure offended many, but I LOVE it. He would be the first to tell anyone offended to get a manual typewriter and join in.
exploitedasian - you call Bukowski a god - yet spelled his name wrong three times. Freedom of speech comes with responsibilities - the very least of which is correct spelling.
Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness...
February 28, 2008
8:32 a.m.
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gwats writes:
I was wondering if the young man had some bad experience with Asians that made him lump billions of people into a single group he wanted to go to war with. His speech is protected under the Constitution but what a poor choice in people to offend. Perhaps some little Asian Coed turned him down for a date because he needs to shave and bathe and learn some manners.
Better make sure this kids doesn't buy any new weapons. Shooting his mouth off on this racist rant his been harmful enough already.
February 28, 2008
8:36 a.m.
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politwriter writes:
Max Karson: Contact the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education www.thefire.org.
You have a lawsuit. You may just have won the lottery due to the despicable anti-American behavior of the mob on your campus.
February 28, 2008
8:45 a.m.
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buffsblg writes:
Exploitasian
Yes this was terrible journalism and the editor and adviser of the paper as well as officials of the University have acknowledged that and made changes. The piece never should have been published.
However, that does not seem to be enough for many protesters. They want Karson and the editor fired and the newspaper to enact rules to be sure than no minority is ever offended again. That begins to move dangerously toward censorship by the mob. The faculty is already moving to policies "so that offensive content doesn't get published". If a journalist cannot offend he cannot write. An article about a bad teacher offends the teacher, an article about a crooked administrator offends the administration. My guess is that Nixon was a bit offended when journalists called him a liar and a crook. Good journalism may require offense and that is being thrown out in the tempest over this stupid article.
Finally, it seems the outrage here is a bit manufactured. Anyone with a brain that read the article, as poorly written as it was, would have known that Karson was not actually urging people to round up asians with nets. It was certainly not funny, but for protesters to claim they were frightened by it is a load of cr*p. Everyone has a right to stand up and say that Karson is a no talent hack who aspires to be a shock jock and that the editor was either ignorant or deliberately looking to offend. However when you and the others claim a "right" to live in a world where you will never be offended, you show yourselves as censors.
February 28, 2008
8:50 a.m.
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Beau writes:
I was a college debator and we had to take each side of a topic and defend it furiously. I found myself defending communism once, which made me gag down to my toes. But I wasn't there to argue what I believed, I was there to learn HOW to argue. Defending the indefensible was a great way to learn.
College is a place to learn, to take silly positions and get them taken apart, to be humiliated, to be stupid, to learn why some ideas are stupid and some are really good.
By suspending this student the University is being cowardly and un-academic. His anti-Asian rant should be a great opportunity to explore racism, culture issues, our melting pot, and the best way to deal with problems that are real and problems that are just made up. Other students should have felt free to "take his side" and argue his main points, only to get them beaten down, as an academic exercise.
Where I went to college, my debate teacher would have made me take the same side as this student, to try and defend racism, and someone would have argued the other side, and we all would have learned a lot about how bad ideas can propagate, and how to take them apart and destroy them.
Sadly, CU isn't that kind of academic institution, as they have proven today.
February 28, 2008
8:54 a.m.
Suggest removal
rickg19611 writes:
CU = Censorship University.
At CU, you can practice free speech all you want.... as long as it meets the censorship committee's criteria for acceptable speech.
February 28, 2008
9:20 a.m.
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PonchoVia writes:
Hate speech that is meant to incite upheaval and violence is not protected speech under the first amendment. It is right that this kid should be suspended. No reasonable person reading the article would consider is satirical or humorous as the author claims it was intended. Rather, any reasonable person would consider the article to be a call to violence against people of a particular race. That's hate speech - not protected.
February 28, 2008
9:24 a.m.
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dani4a writes:
Ok, I'm usually incredibly supportive of the media. However, this headline is incredibly misleading to unknowing readers. Max Karson is the opinion editor at the Campus Press. The Opinion section is undergoing restructuring. They will not publish opinions until this revamping is complete. As such, Max Karson does not have any work to do, so his responsibilities are suspended until the Opinion section is back. He was not suspended from the publication. He was not suspended from the class. And he was not suspended from CU. The headline is an exaggeration, and is very misleading.
You have an obligation to your readers, and lying is not the way to gain their trust.
February 28, 2008
9:28 a.m.
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buffsblg writes:
Come on poncho. Do you really think that Karson expected people to read his column and then immediately go out with butterfly nets and round up asians to feed them bad sushi? There was no incitement or intent to incite, there was only a stupid attempt at satire and also a childish joy in shock words. This kind of overreaction actually hurts your position. karson is an ignorant moron but to equate this to "hate speech" minimizes real issues.
February 28, 2008
9:29 a.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
Evidently, CU Boulder is intent on raising a new crop of politically correct fascists in America.
As if the last bunch hasn't caused enough trouble...
Thank you Dear Leader, Choe Jong Il.
February 28, 2008
9:32 a.m.
Suggest removal
joeblow writes:
PC? What an easy curtain to hide behind. Those who use it are disingenuous at best, (choose your own word) at worst.
In either case, it's a pretty lame excuse for stupidity!
February 28, 2008
9:33 a.m.
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aeb1barfo writes:
At CU
You can IGNORE traffic lights and cross the street whenever and wherever you want.
At CU
You have the situation where ANIMAL HOUSE can live on and the DELTAS survive...
At CU
Tolerance is practiced as long as it bashes the United States; other countries are OFF LIMITS...
The name BERZERKELEY EAST might be a mild description.
Karl Marx Universitat might be a better one...
Or Che Guevara People's Re-education Center...
February 28, 2008
9:55 a.m.
Suggest removal
PonchoVia writes:
buffsblg: correction to my earlier post - the category of speech is actually "fighting words", which is not protected. As to your question, I think reasonable people could disagree as to what the author's intent was. A reasonable person could conclude that his intent was for people to harm Asians. In this case, the school has a right too suspend; but, after reading someone's earlier post, apparently the reason for suspension was not the article after all.
February 28, 2008
10:01 a.m.
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amosnbear writes:
I just read the piece and the one thing that stands out is the utter ridiculous nature of it. In fact, it was so ridiculous that I'm very surprised that the faculty and CU community took it so seriously instead of for what it was...bad writing.
I'm sure Max thought he was being clever and funny but I'm easily amused and it came off as stupid.
Maybe I should be offended that he referred to whites as retarded weasels and whitebread. I don't see one rally being held for that...but than the vocal masses who are calling for suspensions and resignations would probably label that racist too since we all know what happens when whites gather together to rally for their own color...
This is only "national news" because someone in Boulder labeled it Hate Speech instead of the extremely poor attempt at satire that it was. I didn't need to have a label at the top of the page reading SATIRE to realize what it was, but apparently a vocal minority do.
People need to get over it.
February 28, 2008
10:11 a.m.
Suggest removal
zoos writes:
hey theoldguy
So what you're saying here is that Max Karson should be able to write about hating Asians, but if i say i hate white people, you basically tell me that I should be careful of white people? Sounds rather like a threat to me old guy. I'm not old and I can handle myself, and if threatened with physical violence, I defend myself. Simple as that. I agree with free speech but do you honestly think that his article was worth printing for any reason other than to be controversial? I don't believe that it is worthy of print in a University paper on it's own merit as an article.
zoos
February 28, 2008
10:37 a.m.
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ruckus writes:
*Begins to play the worlds' smallest violin*
So racist satirical hate is called free speech? Hate breeds hate so don't be surprised with all the back lash. Max Karson sounds like a pompous little b!tch that needs his ass beat, the Asian community should not let it bruise their pride. Lets face it, Boulder has always had racially charged dilemmas. Max wants tons of attention (which he is receiving) due to his controversial article. Sure he has his own opinion to which he is entitled to but don't go thinking there is no consequence for his unprofessional free speech. CU made the right choice to suspend him.
February 28, 2008
10:40 a.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
The real reason for the suspension is that the political speech police at CU can't take a joke.
It was a bad joke but still just a joke.
Such persons like Choe (Chris) Jong Il and his ilk have no right to call themselves liberal or even American in my opinion. They're nothing but thin-skinned fascist hypocrites.
They preach love and tolerance while forming an ever-widening damage path through our liberties. I believe love is a good thing. But enforced love is nothing but rape. It's actually fertile ground for hate, real hate, the kind of hate that you get from excluding dissenting voices and people who say things you don't like from the national dialog.
Some students at CU are a national disgrace and a stain on the good name of American liberalism.
Like other ignorant mobs throughout history, they've terrorized their own journalists into submission and unwarranted apologetics. It's disgusting to watch.
In a perfect world we'd buy them tickets and bundle them off to North Korea where they can live in a perfect society and kiss butt all day long.
February 28, 2008
10:53 a.m.
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tunaman65 writes:
One more reason not to send my kids to CU.
February 28, 2008
11:03 a.m.
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Alive writes:
Hey Ruckus,
So you think that guy needs "his ass beat". That kinda sounds like HATE to me. Are you a HATER rucky boy? It sure sounds like you are. Maybe when you grow up you will understand what hypocrisy means.
February 28, 2008
11:35 a.m.
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ruckus writes:
Alive,
There is a difference between hate and discipline which his parents obviously didnt do enough of. The definition of hypocrisy goes hand in hand with your "Im-An-Arrogant-Prick" attitude. Maybe when you grow some balls and some brains you can step it up as well until then use some vagisil.
February 28, 2008
12:01 p.m.
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O_TRAIN writes:
Oh Ruckus...
First - they start by wanting to censor racial based bad satire at a local college paper....next thing you know they are censoring local blogs by internet tough guys who resort to groin references.....where does it end??
Hypocrisy indeed
February 28, 2008
12:33 p.m.
Suggest removal
redwhiteandBLUE writes:
What's this "si, hablamos ingles" have to to with Asian problems? What's the point?
Trying to get your agenda in?
February 28, 2008
1:04 p.m.
Suggest removal
JYP3500 writes:
If Karson goes, then so do the morons at CSU that wrote/published the "F" Bush article. Both are examples of ignorant journalism. Until we start holding people accountable for their actions, this will continue & get worse. Where are the managers / editors of these newspapers, and why don't they apply professional editorial standards to their work? I say "fire 'em all", let them focus on getting an education, growing up, finding real jobs and paying taxes!
February 28, 2008
1:05 p.m.
Suggest removal
FightingWords writes:
1st Amendment: Freedom of Speech
○ Safeguards freedom of speech
○ Includes corporate political speech and symbolic speech
○ Unprotected speech:
Fighting words- words which by their very utterance are likely to inflict harm on or provoke a breach of the peace by the average person to whom they are directed
Hate speech that is defamatory or causes incitement to violence
The article was not satire! I wonder what ethnic background everyone is that is saying it is and that it is freedom of speech? Hmmm...please if you are going to say anything about freedom of speech know your s**t.
February 28, 2008
1:10 p.m.
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ruckus writes:
I'm not sure where it ends O_TRAIN, we're living in a world of hypocrisy what else is new? So I responded with "grow some balls and some brains" with a side of vagisil to an insult, what of it? It makes me an internet tough guy now?
So Max got what he deserved and everyone is on the defense. You all want fight hypocrisy? start with the current administration, start with the church, start with being aware of your own ignorance then take some advise from FightingWords...
February 28, 2008
1:18 p.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
Number of fights that broke out over Max Karson's joke: 0
Number of arguments won by censorship advocates: 0
No wonder they want censorship. They can't hold their own in a real debate.
February 28, 2008
1:31 p.m.
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ruckus writes:
HolierThanThou,
LOL
February 28, 2008
1:39 p.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
Disputing censorship and defending freedom of speech always presents a touch of irony to me.
Here I am defending speech and opinion construed as racist. Racism is something I hate but censors and self-appointed speech police invariably put me in a position where I defend the rights of racist idiots to spew their crap. Max Karson's bad joke was racially charged but, to me, has every appearance of being self-deprecating. It even ends with a punch line that should reveal its sarcasm down to the 10th percentile of simpletons.
But silencing the dissenting or unpleasant voice is every bit as odious as the racism it pretends to refute. Groups who beg for protection from their big nanny only prove that they are inherently weak in the brain and too feeble minded to mount an effective verbal defense of their position. Therefore, they form a howling mob and plead for their nanny to silence the irrefutable voice that disturbs their fragile little minds.
February 28, 2008
1:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
Denver_Conservative writes:
To "FIGHTINGWORDS":
Sorry but you and your politically correct pro-censorship crowd are WRONG in claiming that offensive speech is not covered by the 1st Amendment. Refer to R.A.V. vs City of St Paul (1992). There is no such thing as a "right" to not be offended. The fact that rap lyrics are full of anti-white slurs which are not prosecuted should have clued you in long ago on the constiutionality of banning offensive speech.
February 28, 2008
2:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
Zinnia79 writes:
Wow. They actually printed a picture of Karson. Probably not too smart since he has pissed off so many people.
Of course Asians has a right to be angry. If it was about Mexicans, they would be mad. Blacks...expect a riot. Whites...bring out the KKK. Whatever.
Karson wanted controversy...oh, he's got that alright. Now his stupidity has rippled into a lot of drama and consequences. He got his freedom of speech..now get ready for freedom of punishment. You reap what you sow.
February 28, 2008
2:58 p.m.
Suggest removal
O_TRAIN writes:
Ruckus,
I may not agree with what you say or what Karson says or Bush or Dr Dobson, etc.....but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
I think censorship is not the answer - once we go down that road we all lose. I think it is the same principle as due process of law for ALL - including serial killers, molestors, etc. For us to be free we occasionally have to put up with the "bad" stuff.
Hey - at least CU should be proud Karson didn't plagiarize his story.
February 28, 2008
3:07 p.m.
Suggest removal
buffsblg writes:
Remember that the "fighting words" exception is very limited. That may only prohibit speech that is likely to result in an immediate breach of the peace. Offensive and even hateful speech is not included. I simply must disagree that the column, no matter how stupid or offensive, was anything like fighting words or a call to immediate breach of the peace. The only action proposed was to catch "Asians' in butterfly nets and feed them bad sushi. Anyone who viewed that as an immediate threat needs mental help themselves. Outrage to this makes sense, but to claim you were in fear is a manufactured overreaction.
February 28, 2008
3:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
HolierThanThou writes:
MileHighGirl,
Do you still not understand the difference between stupid speech and freedom of speech?
I explained it all above and invited questions if you had any.
So, Max Karson deserves punishment for making a bad joke? Being censored by suspension is not enough? What would you suggest is a punishment befitting his troublesome little jest? Jail? Beating by a mob? Firing squad? Gas chamber with all others who make wise cracks you don't like?
Change your byline to MileHighBimbo. You belong in North Korea with Dear Leader Choe Jong Il and the rest of the self-appointed speech police.
You really don't get what true liberalism or America is all about. You, my little chickadee, are just another fascist pig.
February 28, 2008
4:55 p.m.
Suggest removal
gcrez writes:
OneMan-
A bunch of skin headed rednecks are shooting up schools? What was the race of the V-Tech shooter? I don't remember any "white power" tattoos. This is America folks! I am of asian, german, and native american ancestry, and I'm a REDNECK!!! Only in America my friends, only in America!
Just be happy we are able to speak our minds!
February 28, 2008
4:59 p.m.
Suggest removal
Zinnia79 writes:
Holierthanthou,
I do understand what freedom of speech and stupid speech mean. Obviously you don't realize what sarcasm is. I didn't say he should censor his opinion. By all means, let it out. Karson's article was filled with hate and racism...hiding all that behind the disguise of "satire" is plain ignorant. Anyone can clearly see through his shield and interpret his true intentions. So if he had the balls to write such an article, he should expect the repercussions that comes with his actions. I am not a violent person, but there are plenty of Asian thugs who would beat the crap out of him if they ever saw him. That was why I was shocked that they would print a photo of Karson... it could potentially put him in danger. I certainly don't think he deserves physical harm in any form...this scrutiny and public embarassment is enough.
It is my freedom of speech to vent my disgust and anger towards him. His article was probably very humorous to you. I should move to Korea..America is number one in censorship. Everything here is censored, unlike Europe and most of the World. Wake up!
You know nothing about me to be calling me a fascist pig and childish names. Reading your comments, you're just an arrogant know-it-all with a narrow mind. You should change your screen name to Hollowmindedthanthou.
February 28, 2008
6:54 p.m.
Suggest removal
HolierThanThou writes:
MileHighBimbo,
I did not find Karson's joke all that amusing. Nevertheless, it was clearly written to be a joke. As another writer so eloquently stated above, anyone who takes it seriously after reading it has mental problems.
One of the points I made earlier is that every ethic group on Earth has suffered its own troubles. But now come the Asians and whoever the Hell wants to be included in that catch-all group of chest-thumping victims. Asians aren't even a valid ethnic group. What the Hell are they? Chinese? Japanese? Koreans? Or some other tribe that's been murdering its neighbors for the past two centuries? Asians have no real grievance. Asians are frauds jumping on the victim bandwagon here. Compared to Jews or Native Americans they're a bunch of wimps who have a pathetic imaginary grievance.
This is one of the problems with the high cost of university education. Working people cannot afford to go to attend university anymore. The student body is composed almost entirely of spoiled brats who never worked an honest day in their lives. It they had, they might have grown thick enough skin that a joke wouldn't be a big deal. Some would have grown up with parents who did hard work and saw what a real grind is all about. They would be less likely to get sucked into a big pity party about a lame joke. They'd have bigger issues on their minds.
I'm not the reason that you're a fascist. You make yourself into one with what you write and by joining the fascists at CU Boulder in their cause. Like I said, calling censorship "journalistic integrity" doesn't fool most of us. It fools only idiots who just can't wait to hop on that big old pity-poor-persecuted-me bandwagon. Karson was kicked out his position by a howling mob for a joke. That's the sum of it no matter how you try to parse the ensuing incident.
You are not who you say you are just because you say so. If you support a fascist cause and celebrate harm done to someone for making a harmless joke then you are a fascist indeed just like the rest of your lot. I'm just calling it like it is.
February 28, 2008
8:36 p.m.
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incognitoboy writes:
voices of reason:
ottis @ 7:48am
buffsblg @ 8:45am....again @ 3:07pm
BonR @ 8:50am
amosnbear @ 10:01am
HolierThanThou @ 1:39pm (regressing some thereafter)
voices of reactionary b.s. :
too numerous to recount!
IMHO
February 28, 2008
9:43 p.m.
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kelrob07 writes:
I don't understand why Amy Herdy, the adviser is being attacked and asked to resign. Under the COLORADO STUDENT FREE EXPRESSION LAW, she could not have censored the article even if she wanted to because student editors have all the power.
Section 5A of this law says: (5) (a) Student editors of school sponsored student publications shall be responsible for determining the news, opinion, and advertising content of their publications subject to the limitations of this section. It shall be the responsibility of the publications advisor of school-sponsored student publications within each school to supervise the production of such publications and to teach and encourage free and responsible expression and professional standards for English and journalism.
Herdy could have discouraged the publication of these articles, but ultimately the responsibility and blame lies with the student editors.
February 28, 2008
10:09 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
Like a wise old lady once told me, "if you can't say anything nice , don't say anything at all." I'f you get your ass beat you probably had it comin." I'd like to see you tell someone about your right to call them a chink or a wetback or the all to famous N -word because the constitution gives you the right. See if that hepls, I'd pay to see that hillarious spectacle. But hacks like that only write tough words. War my ass, don't make me laugh.
February 29, 2008
12:34 a.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
How do you make a bunch of CU students happy in their old age?
Tell them a joke when they're young.
A CU graduate had trouble finding a job and the trust fund wasn't quite meeting expenses so she set up shop as a fortune teller. Her first client was a pregnant lady. She stared deeply into her crystal ball and announced, "You are going to have a child!"
The woman asked, "A boy or a girl?"
She answered, "What are you? Some kind of sexist pig?"
February 29, 2008
12:48 a.m.
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Denver_Conservative writes:
On leftist-dominated college campuses, nobody cares when such screeds are written about white people. Where was the "anti racist" crowd when Churchill was shooting off his mouth? Where were they when the civil rights of the Duke Lacrosse team were being trampled? Where are they when whites in South Africa are slaughtered because of their race? Nowhere as usual because they believe that there is no such thing as a white victim, and that in the Marxist dialectic whites represent the oppressor class, and its always open season on the bourgeois in the eyes of the left. David Horowitz, who speaks against such anti-white racism, was harassed on CU campus a few years ago for his words. Had this man said, "Hate Whites!" instead, nobody would care, including the Rocky Mountain News because media are dominated by the same kind of hypocritical leftists that dominate college campuses.
February 29, 2008
1:05 a.m.
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happymike44 writes:
If you do not let a journalist report what they feel.Then we fail to have a free press.First Amendment allows freedom of speech.If you do not allow this.Then you have communism,where you are told what to say and think.I am from a generation of people who was allowed think for themselves.This means to come to your own conclusion.Also if you don't agree with this, that is your right under the First Amendment.So when you give up that,then what is next ask yourself that question.Just a thought what do you think?
February 29, 2008
1:17 a.m.
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politwriter writes:
The photos of immortal satiric journalists H.L Mencken and Mike Royko grace the halls of the Medill School of Journalism at Northwestern University.
Had they had the misfortune to have studied at CU in 2008, they would have probably been run out of town by the PC Boulder yahoos.
February 29, 2008
8:28 a.m.
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happymike44 writes:
To the asian gentleman,How quickly you have forgotten the attack of pearl harbor.My father went to the phillipines to fight in World War 2.Many of the americans we knew have always been upset over the asian communities treatment.When many of these people were rounded up,it was for their own safety.Because of Pearl Harbor many of the japanese were no longer safe.The expression was the only good Jap is a dead Jap.How the world has changed in sixety some years.Many of the asian are here today because American G.I risked their lives to give you your freedom.I guess you forgot the chinese who marched into Shanghai and many other places and committed wholesale murders of whole communities.To me these are not just storie in a history book.You are here today because so many American G.I.s died for your freedom.Remember that when you bad mouth so many of your fellow Americans.You are a American first Why because you do not live in Asia do you.My family has fought in every major war since The Revolutionary War.So I am proud to be an American.I hope all who read this feel the same way. God Bless America and each and everyone of us for being fortunate enough to be born here.What do you think,just my thoughts.
February 29, 2008
10:48 a.m.
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gwats writes:
This boy should have remembered the lesson of Ward Churchill and toned down his rhetoric. CU has no tolerance for differing points of view, right or wrong. He's in school. The school is CU, Boulder Campus.
CU is not the real World where you can have any crazy points of view you can defend. CU has a rather narrow definition of proper speech and behavior. He violated that and he's going to get smacked down.
Personally I don't understand or agree with his take, nor does my Filipina Bride of 17 years.
Why take on half the planet's population in a disagreement you can't possibly win? For a college-educated lad, his move was pretty dumb.
My Suggestion is to finish college quietly, get your degree, and think very carefully before you sit down in front of a keyboard and offend anyone again.
perhaps CU should offer a new course next year entitled "Good Common Sense"?
February 29, 2008
12:13 p.m.
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DonWyatt writes:
As a veteran journalist and top editor at news organizations, I support Mr. Karson's right to publish his column, titled “If it’s a war the Asians want ….”
But as an Asian-American man, I'm saddened that he so badly botched an opportunity to initiate a campus conversation about race and diversity in a more thoughtful way.
I just have to ask: Dude. What were you thinking?
Imagine what the column could have been if he had spent more time and energy thinking about a constructive way of telling the story about racial tension on campus.
For example: Take four students to Starbucks, a pair at a time. Start with two friends (one white, one Asian). Then two strangers (one white, one Asian). Let them know what you want to talk to them about beforehand so they can explore their feelings. Buy them lattes then put the issue on the table and let them discuss it.
What's the problem? What do they say? What words do they use? How does each feel? What was their body language? Are they concerned? What’s their solution, if any? What was left unsaid?
Talk to others who care. Are relations getting better or worse? Why or why not? (For example: are student populations changing so there is more diversity on campus today than before?) What effect, if any, does this have on campus or community life? Student interactions? What impressions is he left with? What questions remain unanswerable? After doing the legwork, how does Mr. Karson feel about it all?
Would the resulting piece have been a more powerful and honest way to explore the issue? Instead, Mr. Karson delivered disrepectful stereotypes and caricatures, shallow logic and simplistic writing. His column reads as if it was written on the back of an envelope between classes. What a wasted opportunity.
Mr. Karson has a lot to answer for, of course, but his editors and advisors must share the blame. He is a beginner. As such, he deserved the time and attention necessary to turn his raw emotions and idea into a probing piece of work. The editors and advisors let Mr. Karson and the CU community down by not challenging him to develop the column more fully. The fact that it was not labeled as commentary or as satire, as noted in an apology, is a red herring. The campus deserved was a better column. Period.
I'm not talking censorship here. Let's focus on the missed opportunity to teach and learn a craft. And let's face it: Even pros have trouble writing about race.
Is Karson a racist? Misguided, maybe. Unfeeling or uncaring? Maybe. Irresponsible? You decide. But racist? Bigot? Despite his not-so-humorous statement in the column -- "No more, Mr. Pretend-I'm-Not-Racist" - I don't believe he is one. At least I hope not.
You don't get mulligans in life, but I'm hoping he gets a second chance to show what he has learned from this teacheable moment.
Don Wyatt
editor, Springfield (Mo.) News-Leader
March 1, 2008
12:44 a.m.
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Denver_Conservative writes:
You liberals are hilarious. Practice what you preach. You always pull the switch-the-standards routine when it comes to white people. Go away.
March 12, 2008
3:39 p.m.
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PuckX3 writes:
RACISM RULES, YOU B—CH-A$$ MOTHAF--KAS!!!!
…Do I have your attention now? Good, b/c I’m sure anyone dedicated enough to read this far in the thread would rather watch Heidi Montag’s video debut on repeat than read another post about free speech, racism, humanity’s inherent evils (successes?), or the hard-knock (worry-free, blissful?) life of White, Conservative, Christian Americans.
….I’m assuming that this is sort of how Max Karson felt when he chose to open his inflammatory article in the manner that he did: we are all so used to the same debates, no one will listen if I don’t write something CRRRazy! …The problem is, Max never really got to his actual point in the original article (see his follow-up in the DP: http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/c...). Max chose [poorly] to target the entire article at a single minority group, thus sacrificing “the few”— feelings of security, acceptance and equality of millions of Asian Americans—for the betterment of the man.
What’s really sad about this is that had Max not written his ridiculously over-the-top, incendiary article, most of us would never have heard of him, let alone his very nascent and relevant warning of the impending institutionalization of racism in this country (specifically within its higher education system). Max, we all heard you; unfortunately the resulting din and bullsh*t-pitching made it impossible to listen
“SO! WHOSE FAULT IS IT?” Dammed if I know. But I’m pretty sure the answer is: EVERYONE. You, me, Max, the CP Ed board, the CU administration, the postman, ryan seacrest, racists, lovers, bigots and friends. It’s everyone’s fault because everyone IS the “problem”. The United States is filled w/so much diversity and freedom-to-do-as-we-damn-please in response to such diversity, we are beside ourselves. We all [mostly] have the same fear of being ostracized or unaccepted, so we tend to turn against others rather than try to take responsibility.
This is not intended to be some cop-out Kumbaya Bullcrap my cyber friends. It’s just the truth. Hide behind some debate about “free speech” or “who is part of the most pissed-upon racial/ethnic/religiousgroup” and you miss that we are all essentially alone here in our uniqueness. Or together in our loneliness. However you like your glass of water.
SO WHAT DO WE DO? Dammed if I know. Not b/c I’m apathetic, but b/c I’m not you. Do whatever makes you a happier person and less willing to be a d-bag to others; hug a Teletubby, take Jager Bombs until the kid at the bar next to you looks good enough to take home, read “The Giving Tree”, write rageful Emo poetry, watch Flavor of Love 2 re-runs, find me and yell at me for wasting so much of your time in writing this post, whatever. Then, if you have any energy left over, do something that will make someone else happy. Just try not to be so frickin’ judgmental and jaded and maybe listen when people say stuff about being jerks. And then try not to be a jerk.