GRIEGO: Lessons at a school for moms
By Tina Griego, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published February 21, 2008 at 12:30 a.m.
Photo by Javier Manzano / The Rocky
Rep. Larry Liston talks with teen mothers at Florence Crittenton School. Liston, who recently called teen parents "sluts," told the girls, "I regret it. I am sorry."
Photo by Javier Manzano / The Rocky
Liston, a Colorado Springs Republican, peeks into a child care area at Florence Crittenton School, where the lawmaker spoke with teenage mothers.
The state representative from Colorado Springs arrived at the school for teen mothers right on time, which, as it happened, was the moment 16 students returning from a field trip walked up.
Is that him? Since he was most likely the only man within blocks wearing a pinstriped suit and a tie emblazoned with tiny American flags, it seemed a safe bet. "Larry," one of them called in a burst of familiarity, and so Republican Rep. Larry Liston entered Florence Crittenton School amid teen mothers, a group he had labeled "sluts" two weeks earlier.
He carried with him letters they had faxed him. The letters that said he should have thought before he spoke, that he knew nothing about their lives or how they were trying to be accountable for their decisions by staying in school.
It's hard to say what moves a person. What's genuine. Upon hearing Liston had agreed to visit Florence Crittenton, the young mothers wondered whether it was a political stunt. Maybe he's just trying to make himself look better, they said.
Be polite, their teachers told them. Be respectful. The fact is, he is visiting, and when someone looks you in the eye and hears what you have to say, that can change everything.
Everyone is a little awkward. Liston, Principal Donna Campanella, Jelyssa, the 17-year-old mother of 16-month-old baby boy. Jelyssa is the tour guide. She's good at it, though bashful around Liston, her eyes darting up to meet his and then sliding away again. As soon as she can, she tells him she will soon graduate and attend college and then law school.
Read: I am no slut.
"The law is my passion," she says.
"You can become an attorney," Liston says. "My wife is an attorney. It's an honorable profession, despite what people say."
Jelyssa laughs. About 170 teen mothers attend Florence Crittenton. It is also school to 60 of their babies from 3 weeks to 3 years old. Jelyssa shows him the early learning center and fills him in on her recent parent-teacher conference.
She shows him the offices of the counselors and the art therapist. "Art therapy?" he asks.
"They're working through many things," Campanella tells him. "A lot of our students have suffered tremendous loss."
"What kind of loss?"
"Family members who have died or been killed."
"Really?"
"The children who are here are trying to overcome great odds," she says, adding later that nearly all of them, if they finish school, will be the first high school graduates in their families.
Liston peeks into a social studies classroom. Sixteen girls stare back. Come in, the teacher says. Earlier that day, the teacher had taken some students to the Capitol, where they met Rep. Stella Garza Hicks, a Republican legislator who had leapt to the defense of teen mothers.
"I heard the announcement you were there," Liston says, with a big smile. "You're welcome to return any time, and if you'd like to come to the floor, I could arrange that."
Silence.
They stare at him, not rude - measuring, skeptical. The House hot seat is a picnic compared to a room of ticked-off teenage girls.
He asks if they have any questions about the legislature, which is not what they want to talk about. "I can answer any questions," he says. More silence. Finally, one hand goes up. "After seeing our school, has your opinion about us changed?"
"Oh, yes," he says. "I didn't know your school existed until a couple weeks ago. If a picture is worth a thousand words, a tour is worth thousands more."
He holds up the letters. "I did get your letters. I want you to know I did read them."
Another hand. "When you were referring, well, the comment you made, were you referring to the increased number of teen parents or the fact that some, after they get pregnant, rely on social services?"
The increase in teen parents in Colorado, he says. "I uttered a word which I regret and I apologized for. It's a word I don't use. Scout's honor. I never use it. I regret it. I am sorry."
It's a little easier after that. They want to know what his wife said about his comments and he says she lit into him, which gets some smiles. They ask if he was nervous when he ran into them outside the school. No, he says, "I just heard someone call, 'Larry,' and I wondered who it could be." The girl who shouted blushes, then covers her face with both hands. "Don't worry," he says. "I've been called worse. And I do have sweating fingertips."
He says he's concerned about teen parents getting caught in a cycle of poverty, and that he believes the fathers of their children have a "moral, ethical and financial responsibility" to the families they helped create.
"I understand you're trying to improve your lives . . ."
"And it's hard," a mother of twins interrupts.
"And it's hard," he says, choking up then as he describes his gratitude to his wife for the work she did raising their daughter.
"So, we're no longer considered 'sluts?' "
"No," he says. "Absolutely not . . . It's an education process for me. I commend you for being responsible in the way that you are, and quite frankly, I'm proud of you."
The idea is not to persuade anyone teen pregnancy, particularly among single parents, is a good idea. It's a hard life. Poverty is a real concern, and on that, Liston and the mothers of Florence Crittenton can agree.
It's hard to say what each will take away from the encounter, but after Liston leaves - telling Jelyssa she will do well - most of the girls in social studies decide he was, in fact, sincere. His nervousness told them it wasn't easy for him to be there.
"I think it went well," Liston says in the parking lot.
"I think it went well," Principal Campanella says outside her office. "I think a door was opened."
What do you think? I ask Jelyssa. He made an ignorant comment, she says, and then took a step in the right direction.
"You can't change someone's mind in a day," she says, and then heads to the children's wing to pick up her son.
griegot@RockyMountainNews.com
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February 21, 2008
4:39 a.m.
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Pagen writes:
A little bit of humbling goes a long way! We all judge before we see the truth, the question is are you big enough to see the truth. I agree that poverty is a concern but if you have good programs like this one , maybe it can help to change their lives in the right direction. When I went to high school in the 70's all my friends got pregnant. There were only 2 of us that did not. Thank God my parents were realistic enough to talk to me about the responsibility of having sex. The amazing thing is though, all these girls worked really hard to give their kids good healthy lives and they are all fine and not on welfare. What happens to the responsibility of the boys? They should have to work as hard and help raise that child also and it is the responsibility of the parents of these teens to talk to them and lead them in the right direction about sex and about parenting.
February 21, 2008
6:36 a.m.
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vudumom writes:
What Mr. Liston said was totally innappropiate.That word should never be used.However he brought up a very important subject.What do we do with girls that are getting pregnant?What do we do with the fathers of these children?I am between scolding this program for making it easy for them and loving this program because it will help them ,hopefully their children will have a better life.I certainly would be extremely angry if even one of these girls got pregnant again.With all they have been given,all the opportunities,all the support,all the love and all they have ahead of them.That is my worry.Are we making it too easy for them?
How do we turn the trend of teenage pregnancy around,especially in Denver?I think these girls should have to go to area middle schools and high schools and talk to other kids who are having sex and have not become pregnant yet.If they want to give back,this is what is needed.If it makes one kid pick up a condem or starts a conversation or gets a girl to say no or be put on birth control,it would have been worth it.
I don't condemn these girls.I just don't understand in this day and age of the ease of getting birth control why these kids are still not using it and taking precautions.A discussion in the schools are in order about STD's and the threat of not protecting yourself now could be a disaster down the road of life when a girl wants to get married and have a family.The boys need to be talked to about this also.They need to understand that they could be carrying STD's and down the road give them to their future wives and alter their family.
I also think it's time to address and find solutions to ,Where are the father's of these children.There needs to be a law ,there are laws for juveniles,to track down these fathers,do a paternity test and find someway to make them support the children they helped create.I'm not talking about just money,I'm talking about having to support these children emotionally.To help feed them,change them,spend time with them etc...If they connect with their children maybe they will connect on how important it is to also protect themselves and pass a law that they will have to pay child support when they get a job.Not back child support,child support when they start working.Even if it's $20 a week and goes from there.Something needs to be done about fatherhood.I think it's about time we stop letting these guys walk away from their responsibilities.Then they can go talk to boys about how important it is to slip a condem on.
February 21, 2008
6:57 a.m.
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BirdonaWire writes:
Idon't have time to read the last essay..errr... post. The day we put stupid horny teenagers on a pedestal because they are still in school after popping one out is the day our expectations have sunk to nothing. Sure it was stupid to call them sluts publicly. I'd love to see more teens using a little thing called common sense.
February 21, 2008
9:13 a.m.
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primafacie writes:
So, a 17-year-old unwed mother wants to be a lawyer. You mean, lawyers can't be sluts?
February 21, 2008
11:45 a.m.
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Bookem writes:
I applaud Mr. Liston for looking these young women in the eye and apologize, and then to see what is happening in their world.
I think he was trying to bring light to serious problem: Teen pregnancy. I am sure there will be debates about how to address it, but I do believe it is in large part because the fathers of these children vanish, leaving the mothers to shoulder the burdern (and most of them do a darn good job of shouldering that burden, too!).
Not having a strong, male role model in the home creates a void that can not be replaced. Until men realize we have a very large, important role to play within our families and society I think the trend of single moms will only continue to grow.
There must be a way to hold them accountable for (at the very least) financial support.
February 21, 2008
1:58 p.m.
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Jimminy writes:
Your tax dollars at work,folks.Big $$ for people who enable child abuse.Liston was right the first time,and should never have apologized.
February 21, 2008
6:27 p.m.
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cpride writes:
I personally have a sister that attends this school and it is awful that a man of his caliber would even utter such inappropriate words. My sister has been through a lot and there is no reason for a person to make any kind of judgements or comments based on their own lives. It was very ethnocentric of him to not understand where these women have come from and what they are facing. He is making judgement based on his own culture and how he live his "republican life" I agree these girls should not be getting pregnant but for situations such as my sister people should find out more about the root cause instead of saying "oh lets stop teenage pregnancy" These girls are NOT getting pregnant because they are out "slutting" around these girls are acting based on survival mechanism. These girls are falling into a trap that is based upon the root cause for each individual young lady. Just because these girls did not grow up in a house hold similar to Mr. Lipton does not make it fair AT ALL to point fingers at these girls. 99.9 percent of the time these girls did NOT choose to get pregnant. We need to stand of our young people educating them about certain situations. Education is the most powerful weapon to change a situation such as this! Continue to educate the students of Florence Crittenton. AND EDUCATE OUR SO CALLED STATE REPS !!!!!!
February 21, 2008
9:06 p.m.
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Jimminy writes:
cpride,no one is saying we can stop teen pregnancy.We're saying that we can and should stop PAYING for it.We also think that to attribute bastardy,as you do, to some sort of ethnic behavior pattern is the vilest of race-based insult.As if African-Americans and Hispanics were less human than Whites or Asians and therefore incapable of monogamy or marriage.Representative Liston did not say that.You did.
"99.9 % of the time these girls did not choose to get pregnant."
Since charges of statutory rape are never filed in these cases,that means the intercourse was voluntary.Since Roe v Wade absolutely guarantees the right to abort,that means your sister,among many others,chose of her own free will to have a baby that she couldn't care for and now the rest of us are paying for her incompetence.That makes her EXACTLY what Representative Liston said she is.
February 21, 2008
9:15 p.m.
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Kar_ina writes:
People that agree teen girls are "sluts," should probably go to Florence Crittenton and see how we work hard and do get our education. I am a senior graduating this year at Florence Crittenton, and I think people should verify what they say before they speak without knowing. I want to say that we have gone to middle schools arround our community to talk to the younger girls. We have talked about our experiences as teen moms and our struggles. Some of the girls in school do get the support from the baby's dad and their families, so I think people shouldn't lable us all.
February 21, 2008
9:54 p.m.
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Jimminy writes:
Well,Ka_rina,millions of young people work hard and get their education before starting families.Perhaps you could get your case manager to come on here and tell us how much has been paid for your premature soujourn into parenthood.I'll bet the ranch you'd be amazed.
Ka_rina,the worst of it is that whatever money YOU get out of the government is nothing compared to what your case manager,your pediatrician,Florence Crittenden,and a host of other supposedly caring professionals are getting out of the government for telling you how it's all somebody else's fault you have the difficulties you do.They're getting rich off your mistake.You won't.
February 22, 2008
4:16 p.m.
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wow writes:
Some how, I'm not surprised to hear Jimminy criticizing Ka_rina and grousing about this "problem". If its not abortion, its unwed mothers, right fella? Ya just can't make some people happy. Contributing something other than bile would be too much to ask of him, I know, because it takes a bigger man to admit that his way of thinking is grounded in cruelty and smug self righteousness.
I can't even believe that any supposed "mom" would "wonder if they're making it too "easy" on these girls...what would your definition of "easy" be then? Having the husband to work his fingers to the bone to support you while you pop out baby after baby covered by his employer's insurance, I suppose, is the "easy" way for some of us to parent, but not every one can be so lucky, dear heart. Some young women don't get to marry for love and have the fairy tale... Shame on you for even speaking.
Back to my pal Jimminy---Supporting child abuse??? You twinkie brained fool---- these mothers ARE CHILDREN. It's ok for you to advocate having them barefoot and pregnant if they are lawfully wed to any old jerk, but heavens nooo, not if they are alone without a MAN to finish raising them and his offspring. You make me want to throw up. Child abuse?? You are a prime example of not only the attitude that engenders the behavior, but also the result of it.
And BTW CONDOM. Not CONDEM. You have spelled it wrong in every single post "mom".
February 22, 2008
4:40 p.m.
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Kar_ina writes:
Let me just tell yous that I don't really care what all you think of me because I am GLAD and happy to have my 2 year old (3 in March) by my side. Every morning I wake up to her smile and her laugh, which make my days filled with joy. I am so glad she is with me and I NEVER regret having her so young. What would you do as a parent if your child ever gets pregnant at a young age? Make her get an abortion? You know nothing and you have never experienced nothing so I suggest you not comment on this.
February 22, 2008
4:57 p.m.
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ZD writes:
Personally, I found this article enlightening. Teenage pregnancy isn't new to me, but this is the best example I've seen in a long time of a community's response to the issue. As I read, I was amazed by three things: 1) The determination of these young women to continue their educations and forge a new path for themselves and their families. 2) The wonderful response of this program to counteract what really is a crisis. 3) A politician willing to humble and educate himself to make up for an extremely ignorant comment, rather then simply issuing an apology statement and leaving it at that.
And then, I read the comments and was generally disgusted. Rather than being inspired when faced with courage and teamwork, or even thankful that people are working to end the cycle of poverty, I saw several people going out of their way to be rude. What a severe lack of class and basic human decency it shows to pass public judgment on young people who are working so hard -- and, by extension, anyone who helps them.
February 22, 2008
8:42 p.m.
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cpride writes:
First of all, Jimmy my sister is not depending on none of the states tax money. She is doing very well receiving her education just the same as any other teenager would do! She just is very grateful to be able to take her children with her to school and still be able to continue the dream that many other students in the state of COLOR RED enjoy!! The situation is not about tax payers paying money for this school JIMMY its is about tax payers paying their money to schools in which students ACTUALLY LEARN AND GO OFF TO COLLEGE !! AND STILL RAISE A FAMILY. I think you and Mr. Lipton comments were very ignorant and my twin nieces will hopefully grow up in a world where they don't have to put up with comments like this, maybe even not having to worry about learning values and morals because the school would have already taught this to their mother (my sister). You can call it what ever the hell you want to call it SLUT ,TRAMP, or whatever, but the fact of the matter is... these girls or SLUTS as you call them are going to grow up and become very success and one day will RUN THIS STATE if not this country!
And as far as my sister and many of these girls choosing to have a baby is a whole other issue. Most of these girls are growing up in a home to where they are not educated enough to even have the knowledge for the real world. YOU HAVE NO NO NO IDEA AND I AM SO SO SO SORRY I CAN NOT GO INTO DETAIL ABOUT OUR PARTICULAR SITUATION, but JIMMY you and your people need to really THINK before you speak! Grow up and apart of growing up is using better word choice regardless! The mouth is a powerful body part and people should learn to not speak based on their own lives but in the consideration of OTHERS. On top of that situation my sister continues to take care of her children and will some day become the pediatrician that will be taking care of yours.
February 22, 2008
8:52 p.m.
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Jimminy writes:
Ahh....how the Left loves redemption.And freeloaders.....
One is tempted to point out that while couples wanting to adopt have to go to Communist China at enormous expense and then pay equally enormous adoption fees(actually bribes) to that country's bureaucracy,we have young Ka_rina saying "F*ck you,whitey.You're paying for my anchor baby".In broken English.
Don't you suppose that an accredited high school could require proficiency in the language of the taxpayer as a condition of graduation? And don't you suppose that our cash-strapped state government might figure that some of their fiscal difficulties come from young Ka_rina and all the highly paid professionals working with her? And that some of those China-bound prospective adoptive parents would rather do their adopting here-and pay handsomely for the privelige.Seems pretty dumb to pay the incompetent for something as important as the well-being of the next generation when the competent would be delighted to pay US while they do a better job.
February 22, 2008
9:10 p.m.
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Jimminy writes:
Well,I guess I'll have to say it again for the benefit of cpride and anyone else who's interested.Everything I've said comes from decades of experience as a welfare caseworker,and I've seen tens of thousands of cprides and Ka_rinas.They and their whitebread proxies at every level of government have been running a trillion-dollar scam on the American public since the sixties.
February 23, 2008
1:25 a.m.
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wow writes:
Jimminy, you should retire now, if you haven't already done so. You certainly can't be accused of ignorance, but you are a mean spirited, jaded, cranky old cuss. Why is it always left, right, black, white with you, never the resonable middle?
Jimminy---The cartoon cricket that presumed to be the conscience of another, and failed miserably.
February 23, 2008
10:05 a.m.
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Jimminy writes:
wow-it's been said that your enemy is your teacher.Stick with me, and you'll earn a triple PhD.Now I have a question for you:Your post of 4:16 PM yesterday indicates(to me anyway)that you have little use for marriage as a worthwhile behavior in general and you seem convinced that its benefit to anyone,particularly children,ranges from unproven to non-existent.How do you feel about gay marriage?
February 23, 2008
11:16 a.m.
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cpride writes:
Jimmy I totally understand what you are saying I have seen the welfare fraud as well but the fact of this matter is that these women are actually becoming independent and not having to depend on the system because of schools like this. These girls are growing up and not having to be on welfare because the school is teaching them that the low classification of life is not their only option. My sister does not want to be on welfare because we have seen people in out neighborhood playing with the system. The students of florence are becoming better women and in return will push them to raise their children to be better. It not about them being on welfare these student will be the ones who are no on welfare. Its the one you see on the 16th street mall and at the other malls during school hours with their kids... those will be the ones on welfare. These girls are getting an education and seeing a way out!!! They wont have to depend on the father ( by the way some GOOD fathers have even got killed) or welfare or comments because the education they recieve from this school will motivate them to live a much better life better than the one they grew up in !
February 23, 2008
1:41 p.m.
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Smiles writes:
Roe v Wade guarantees the right to have an abortion but last I checked the Republican party was anti-abortion. So the message as I see it is, "thank you for not participating in abortion, congrats, your now a S**T". A little hypocritical in my book.
Jimminy you say your opinion comes from years of working the system. How many abusers of the system were educated? How many took steps early on towards personal accountability? Let's face it, how many even bothered to take a parenting class? I don't understand how you can rail against a program that is working to prevent your biggest issue. Because your tax dollars are being spent? I never raised any children, and yet my tax dollars paid for your children to go to school. How fair is that???
I believe a HS education is a constitutional right in this country. It might also interest you to know that much of this schools funding comes from non-government sources. I applaud this school and the students. Now, I am off to find my checkbook so I can do more than applaud….
February 23, 2008
3:56 p.m.
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Jimminy writes:
Smiles-focus a little.Our position on abortion and bastardy are entirely consistent with each other and reflect the conviction that both behaviors constitute the most egregious sort of mistreatment of the next generation.A truly enlightened society would outlaw such abuse.
One would note that all the services provided at Florence Crittenden are rendered to the already-inadequate parent,not the child,who gets the same level of service that he/she would receive in foster care.
Charlie-An old urban legend holds that men who celebrate feminism may anticipate being rewarded in a most personal way.Back at the Department the name is "welfare-lady man".
February 23, 2008
5:07 p.m.
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Jimminy writes:
Charlie-
A:What sorts of attributes might characterize the best kind of cynic?
B:Nearly all posters here,including you,post anonymously.Any reader upset at what is said has the option to respond-or not.As I recall,there is no legislation exempting young women-or President Bush,for that matter-from legitimate criticism.
C:So you DO like a system that wastes resources on the behaviors being discussed?
I'll repeat that getting flamed by Charlie B. is an accolade.Nobody is anybody around here until he cranks up that brilliant(if sometimes unfocused)intellect at them.
February 23, 2008
6:52 p.m.
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Smiles writes:
Bastardy is mistreatment of the next generation? I wonder if Christian organizations around the country are aware of this Republican stance. Or would it be the other way around? It seems unlikely since Christian organizations help fund and operate the bulk of homes for pregnant and parenting teens around the country... I don't know who to call first my church or my congress person.
And yes, YES... By all means, let us go back to the days of enlightenment where we rip the babies out of the arms of unwed mothers and place them in homes where they are to never know their roots, their name, or women who loved them enough to give them life. And then, since we have outlawed such behavior, let us gather up all these fallen women and brand the scarlet letter to their chest or better yet, let us throw them in the street where they can be publicly flogged and stoned. Then, at the end of the day, we can all sit back and pat ourselves on the back for a job well done and truly call ourselves enlightened.
Ugh wait… Don’t we accuse other nations of human rights violations when they practice this same enlightened form of crime and punishment for pregnancy out of wedlock? Yup.. So I guess we should just put them in jail. No tax dollars spent there.
You might consider building a time machine and zapping yourself back to the 18th century. You may actually fit in. Heck, you might even get elected Senator.
February 23, 2008
8:18 p.m.
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Jimminy writes:
Bastardy IS mistreatment of the next generation,but it isn't a Republican stance.More's the pity.It is,rather,an idea whose time must unfortunately wait.Just as was,say for example,alternative energy fifty years ago.
Smiles' Hawthorne-esque scenario of the consequence of outlawing bastardy is as far removed form reality as is his/her suggestion that time travel is possible.As I've said before(although not lately)neither gender has an intelligence advantage over the other and any person is capable of choosing to avoid unhealthy actions.I'm certain that the bastardy epidemic will abate once those who do that behavior have to pay its real cost.In that connection,I refer the reader to a trend in the African-American community:for some time before 1996,the bastardy rate in that group had been a fairly constant 90%.In that year,welfare laws were changed so as to require an applicant/recipient to go to work or go to school,and there was little to no exception.The bastardy rate in the African-American community began immediately to drop and is now down to 70%-statistically a very significant decrease,and one that can only make life better for a group whose fortunes could use an uptick.
February 23, 2008
8:19 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
One thing you'll never get accused of Jimminy is having any class at all.
Never thought I'd agree with Chuck B , first time for everything
February 23, 2008
8:48 p.m.
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Jimminy writes:
Well,I HAVE been accused of making invidious comments about the Emperor's New Clothes.I suppose that's rather declasse.
February 24, 2008
8:03 a.m.
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vudumom writes:
So according to WOW,a couple who has been married for alsmost 25 years to one man, planned their family,paid insurance for many years,had their children when they could afford it,( yes birth control really works),are raising their children without any government assistance,has paid taxes all these years,been hard working ,think raising our children without daycare,or subsidized daycare,has never asked for a handout,chose to not have children at an early age,(we met when I was 17),practiced birth control until we were ready,did not pop out baby after baby on the employer's dime,my husband and I have paid a long time into our insurance and guess what we should be able to use it to pay for hospital bills after we had our 2 children.I'm the bad person?WOW,is all I can say.I guess what these girls and millions of others getting welfare and benefits on the tax payer's dime is the right way to go.Thanks for letting me know this ,WOW.
I guess my husband and I did wrong by getting married ,working,planning our family and not being on welfare.Sorry to disappoint you.Should I be educating my daughters to get pregnant because the government will take care of them? No CONDOMS for them?
February 24, 2008
11:22 a.m.
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Jimminy writes:
You didn't disappoint ME,vudumom.I made a point of telling my Department colleagues that we worked for the taxpayer.Got a lot of dirty looks and smarmy comments for it.Just like here.
February 24, 2008
12:06 p.m.
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vudumom writes:
It's kinda funny Jimminy,People who work their whole lives,never ask the government for anything,have children they can take great care of,raise responsible children in a loving 2 parent home,provide for the children and work for everything we have,get slammed.However if you start having children at the age of 12 and up and live off the tax payers money,free medical,free food,free education,free daycare,after having access to free birth control,this scenerio is a better one for who?
So a girl has a child at the age of 14 and she is given alot more in tax payer dollars than the things listed above,she is continueing her education,that's a good thing,but how does a 14 year old who has a child,have the education to educate her child ,who when the girl turn 19 has a child going into kindergarten?What happens to that child?Is this a good situation?You've worked for the system and you and I both know these girls cannot continue their education and raise a child without lots and lots of help and aid from where?The tax payers.So even when these girls graduate and if they try to go to college,who is going to pay for the childcare and all the other stuff that goes along with raising a child?The tax payers.This program seems good on the surface,but if you look deeper it actually teaches them what you did is fine,someone will always be there when you mess up.Quite a few of these girls will more than likely go on to have more children and once again not be able to support them without the help of ,who?The tax payers.
Yet I'm the bad person for being married and having children and not relying on the government.
I'm hoping this new trend fades fast,for the children's sake.
February 24, 2008
1:34 p.m.
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Smiles writes:
I believe you are mistaken. The national peak was 70% for African American in 1994 (Never 90%) and is now down to 68%. Very little difference and probably not at all attributable to welfare reform. Interesting also, is the fact that other ethnic groups are up since 1994 so again, I find your welfare analogy flawed.
One thing I agree with you on is that children born to poverty will likely continue the trend. This is why I applaud these young women for their effort to break the cycle. Certainly most of them could have chosen NOT to finish their education and their chance for a successful outcome for their children would be close to zero.
No one here is saying teenage pregnancy is a GOOD thing - I am positive that not one parenting teenager out there would recommend it as a way of life. At least not one who is struggling to get their education. If you aren’t going to be part of the solution by encouraging teenage girls to better themselves then you are a part of the problem by ensuring that their children will follow the same path.
My guess is that ALL of us have made irresponsible choices in our life. And quite frankly, more people are lucky than smart in this world when it comes to an unplanned pregnancy – AND THAT INCLUDES MARRIED PEOPLE. If you have sex, birth control or not, prior to being financially or emotionally able to parent a child, you have no right to stand in judgment. PERIOD. Birth control DOES fail up to 5%.
February 24, 2008
1:50 p.m.
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Smiles writes:
And by the way... Again I point out that my tax dollars went helped pay for YOUR child’s education - I never had children of my own - Is that fair in your world? My parents put 5 kids through private school while still paying for other's children in public schools – Again I ask is that fair?
My answer is YES - We are paying for the constitutional right of all children to a high school education in the country. Yes this school gets government money because they are entitled to it just as any other school in America. And from what I can tell on their financial statements, they are not getting any (or much) *bonus* tax dollars.
The bulk of their funding comes from private donations. So rest easy... Your tax dollars are safe.
February 24, 2008
5:28 p.m.
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Jimminy writes:
Take it up with the Rocky Mountain News,Smiles.They published the 90% stat.And the National Association of Social Workers published an article in the early '80s in their trade publication "Social Work" about how a strong lobbying effort should be put forward in favor of more bennies for "non-marital" children-well,their caseworkers,actually.Bastardy puts a lot of bread on a lot of tables,although the kids so abused seem to get the day-old variety,and those who claim to be helping said kids seem to get the high-buck stuff.
February 24, 2008
5:38 p.m.
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Jimminy writes:
"No one here is saying teen pregnancy is a GOOD thing."..... Oh yes they are.They're just not saying it where anyone can hear.
February 24, 2008
5:45 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
There are those who strive to better themselves and those who complain about how bad life is in the good ol' U.S.A.,
(usually dollars and cents). I've seen plenty of girls like Katrina use the fact that she has a child as an excuse to not get an education and live on welfare her whole life. So regardless of the grumpy ol' geezers who hate youth, minorities,women and equality, get your education Ladies, even if you make mistakes and wrong choices in life. Once you get your education it can never be taken away from you. If your child see's you graduate from college, there is a greater chance they will too. Keep your head up and be the best you can be.
February 24, 2008
5:52 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
I would have think for one to become a welfare case worker, that you would have a passion for helping people who need it. So with all your education Jimbo, why did you settle for that? You seem like to much of a mean ol' cuss to have a desire to help anyone at all. Besides yourself that is.
February 24, 2008
7:16 p.m.
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Jimminy writes:
ONEman-Hey,kids are wonderful.I used to be one.And the helping-people biz wasn't too bad,either.Until Uncle Ho's kids got hold of it and decided to use what up 'til then was the claims department of government's social insurance division as a funding source/indoctrination center for the Left.
Sure,you can flame me for telling you what I've seen and what I know.I'm positive that surviving fugitive Nazis didn't much like Simon Wiesenthal,either.
February 25, 2008
4:28 a.m.
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BirdonaWire writes:
Damn Karina, going bareback at the age of what, 14? Glad you stayed in school but maybe you'll find out childcare is EXPENSIVE!!! From the responsible taxpayers I say to you... you're welcome.
February 25, 2008
8:58 a.m.
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ONEman writes:
Give us break with the tax payers song and dance already. Do I need to que the worlds smallest violin playing a sad, sad song to go with your heart wrenching tax saga? Either way we don't see dime one of our taxes back in our pockets so stop complaining about money you'll never see or know for sure where it goes.
February 25, 2008
9:12 a.m.
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mytwosense writes:
I usually don't put much stock in politicians' "apologies". But, I honestly believe Liston is genuinely sorry for uttering that word, and not just because of the possible political fallout, but because he realized it was a hurtful thing to say (with a little help from his wife!)
This was a step in the right direction for him, for sure, and one that doesn't compromise that teen pregnancy is a serious issue for him. Maybe he learned a few new things that can help him come up with better ideas to make a difference on this issue.
February 25, 2008
11:57 a.m.
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wow writes:
Vudumom,
The other day, I implied not that you were a bad person, but that you are a narrow minded one. You have the "ideal". You are proud of that, and rightfully so. But you are merely lucky. You are no more intelligent or gifted than any other mother merely because you were able to plan your family with success. In my opinion, that should not be the basis for your judgment that girls who were not lucky as you have it "too easy". Is it "easy" to be a mother who is "lucky" enough to be home with the kids?? No, you say?? Even with all the benefits of a solid family, child rearing is still a tough job??
Well, then...it might be a tad harder if you had to go to high school while you do it, huh? Or college, or work. Maybe you are the one who has it easy, afterall, and maybe your pedestal is no place to stand in judgement.
And BTW...For Jimminy and any one else who'd like to know...I have a nice tidy nuclear family complete with husband and 2 very well raised teens, started at the ripe old age of 21. I have been "lucky" enough to have had a supportive husband and family, and still been able to keep my head out of my a** long enough to empathise with the hardships of others who are not as blesed as I am.
Maybe you need to get out more mom, and volunteer to help some teens who could really benefit from your example.