Bullied 8th-grader was beaten, called a Nazi
By Jean Torkelson, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Originally published 07:08 a.m., February 19, 2008
Updated 05:58 p.m., February 19, 2008
Photo by Darin McGregor
Adrian Ulm, 14, and his father Heinz sit in their home as the eighth-grader talks about the ongoing harassment and bullying he has faced while a student at West Middle School in Greenwood Village.
CENTENNIAL — Many would say Adrian Ulm has more seasoned tastes than the average teenager. He likes the Beatles, Broadway musicals — and even his dad.
Since moving here from Germany in 2005, the precocious eighth-grader has learned English from scratch and has already started looking ahead to a career as a professional actor.
But right now, he's exposed to a more painful side of public life: He's become the target of some bullies at West Middle School in Greenwood Village.
"They've asked, 'Is your dad a Nazi? Did he ever shake Hitler's hand?' said Adrian, 14, who lives with his father, Heinz, the owner of an information technology company. The two talked about the harassment Tuesday in their Centennial home, which is furnished with a relaxed, bachelor-style air.
Father and son came to America in 2005. The elder Ulm says he has full custody of Adrian and that the boy's mother remains in Germany.
Adrian said he has a lot of school friends and only about "two handfuls" of enemies. But those two handfuls make life hard. Every day when he wakes up, "I try to stay positive," he said. "But I wonder what's going to happen and if they'll call me a Nazi today."
Last November, the harassment escalated to a physical fight with a boy who, until two years ago, was his friend, Adrian said. Adrian sustained a broken collarbone and other injuries. His father said the medical bills came to nearly $2,000. The teen says he was also a victim of theft, after other students stole a $100 calculator, markers and pencils.
Ulm's attorney, Gregg McReynolds, said the family is considering a lawsuit that would invoke the traditional bodily injury statute and also a suit for punitive damages using the newer hate crimes legislation.
All this is taken seriously by the Cherry Creek School District, which is known as a leader in developing programs to combat the phenomenon of school bullying.
The student involved in the November fight was expelled, said school district spokeswoman Tustin Amole. The incident was complicated because Adrian agreed to confront his assailant. But he says he was beaten up before he had a chance to defend himself.
A rumor that the expelled boy is returning to school is unfounded, Amole said, adding he hasn't even submitted the required paperwork to be considered for a return.
Four other boys who taunted Adrian as late as last week also have been ordered to sign "contracts" promising not to have any contact with Adrian, Amole said.
Time was lost in solving the harassment problem because Adrian stopped reporting ongoing incidents, Adrian's father conceded.
"I didn't tell partly because people started to make fun of my dad," Adrian explained. "I didn't want to hurt his feelings." He says his portly father was jeered at for his "belly" and dental plate.
"Maybe I made a mistake," Heinz Ulm interjected. "I told him — 'Ah, it's crap, ignore it.' That's when he started to digest it inside himself."
The elder Ulm said he originally considered settling the November incident for $5,000, mostly to cover medical bills and attorney's costs. But since the harassment incidents of last week, he's again considering legal action.
"I'm not trying to sue for 40 million dollars," he said. "I want public awareness. I want parents to talk to their kids. Maybe they don't know what their kids are doing."
For his part, Adrian has agreed to report each incident to the school district — while he tries to move ahead.
"I'm trying to think of the good stuff," he said. "About how many good friends I have, what a great dad I have, and how many people are on my side."
Information from Bazi Kanani and Jeffrey Wolf/KUSA-TV, www.9news.com
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February 19, 2008
7:21 a.m.
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Eric writes:
Name calling and a fight happened at a local school? Why is this even in the news? This is so petty.
February 19, 2008
7:38 a.m.
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sls writes:
well maybe someday close minded people will stop teaching there children racism. Children know what they are taught. we all bleed the same color.
February 19, 2008
7:53 a.m.
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DahmersCookbook writes:
Well he probably has one of those mustaches. Remember the one kid in Middle School that did, he got all the babes. For this kid the shave of the mustache coupled with the accent is his demise.
February 19, 2008
7:55 a.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
Oops.... looks like the RMN reported a story that was supposed to be in "The Onion" instead. What next? A news story about a guy who showed up at the office with his shirt untucked?
February 19, 2008
8:05 a.m.
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mytwosense writes:
Well, I do consider this news. The public is routinely assured that school districts have a "zero policy" on bullying, yet now we hear of even another case. What this kid has had to undergo should never have gone this far.
February 19, 2008
8:06 a.m.
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DahmersCookbook writes:
Or khakis without A crease.
February 19, 2008
8:21 a.m.
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stella writes:
It's always interesting to see that other school districts have problems too. I grew up here and always maintained that I would never send my kids to Cherry Creek HS, fabulous school or not. The taunting and bullying even back then was ridiculous.
February 19, 2008
8:36 a.m.
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Squatch writes:
Well is he? A Nazi.
February 19, 2008
8:37 a.m.
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kimm1970 writes:
You know it amazes me those of you who believe this is a non-issue. You probably would have said the same thing right before Columbine happened.
This is the sad fact people, kids are vicious and if we allow them to continue bullying and being bullied without stepping in, we will have more violence. Some people need help, let's try taking our heads out of...the sand and attempt to stop something before it has a chance to fester.
Had this child been black or of a different race would you have been more sympathetic?
February 19, 2008
8:49 a.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
Evidently, West Middle School in Centennial is for retards. They sent Adrian to the wrong school. They should try one where the focus is on scholarship.
Until they change schools, Adrian could use some extracurricular studies in karate.
February 19, 2008
8:50 a.m.
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sls writes:
squatch, youre an idiot. you are in every blog you write in, or should i say type in, is that more youre level?
February 19, 2008
8:50 a.m.
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fatroon writes:
Get over it. Kids have and always be bullied. I was bullied as a kid. Kids need to learn to fight their own fights. That's the problem with this world...people refuse to accept it's not perfect and never will be. If kids don't learn to deal with bullies on their own they will have a difficult time the rest of their lives when they encounter them. As for the Columbine thing, please. When will parents take responsibility? It's not the state's responsibility to raise a child.
February 19, 2008
8:54 a.m.
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mytwosense writes:
kimm: "Had this child been black or of a different race would you have been more sympathetic?"
I couldn't help but wonder that myself. And I'm glad the RMN doesn't use only those qualifications when reporting cases of bullying.
HolierThanThou: "Until they change schools, Adrian could use some extracurricular studies in karate."
No kidding. If the school districts clearly are only paying lip service about bullying, then parents need to make sure their kids can defend themselves, as apparently there is no other choice. (And from what I understand, reputable martial arts instructors teach kids to use what they've learned only in self-defense, never to become bullies themselves.)
February 19, 2008
8:58 a.m.
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DenverVol writes:
I don't think anyone is questioning whether or not racism is an issue, kimm...rather, is this story news worthy or not. Are we going to have an article every time some kid gets called a name in school. Honestly, come on RMN.
February 19, 2008
9:08 a.m.
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mytwosense writes:
DenverVol, did you read the article? A lot more than name-calling occurred. The kid was subjected to physical attacks, theft, and continuous harassment. This is plainly written in the article. The point is our schools are supposed to be safe places to learn. School districts tell us they have a "zero tolerance" policy on this kind of garbage. For those of us who don't have the luxury of sending our kids to a private school - or are ideologically in support of public schools - this is a serious matter.
February 19, 2008
9:11 a.m.
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Spencer writes:
I'm with you Eric, what is this the Mayberry Gazette?
February 19, 2008
9:26 a.m.
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kimm1970 writes:
DenverVol maybe you and others here would prefer another school shooting story, because we (society) didn't take an interest at the start of a bullying incident. Kids these days are vicious and they can't grasp how to "release" the build up from that viciousness. To often we ignore these "non-issue's" then question why it all happened when some psycho shoots up his/her schoolmates.
Either way, it's pathetic to pass judgement just because it doesn't fall into your catagory of news.
So were you a bully or the bullied? I've seen what bullying does from both sides and something needs to be done. Just sad that people are too apathetic to show an interest.
February 19, 2008
9:29 a.m.
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hakj writes:
Man in my day I just learned to fight, and fight well. I moved around every 3-4years, non-military. My dad was a computer contractor, systems analyst for mainframes, and in high demand. Kids are some of the meanest and socially inept animals on this planet. I had to prove myself at every new school I went to. After a few "after school activities" I had no more problems with the exception of some kid having a bad day and wanted to prove himself.
February 19, 2008
9:36 a.m.
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aeb1barfo writes:
It is time to stop the PC GARBAGE that is the INFOTAINMENT that is called NEWS these days....
How about LEVELING the REPORTING field? REPORT ALL THE NEWS OR NONE OF IT!
So if you have a story, use ALL of the "W"s of good reporting.
Don't play favorites and slant by omitting....
This story is an example of REPORTING a SERIOUS PROBLEM.
Oh, yes, there is discrimination and bullying that has been happening to WHITE PEOPLE too.
But you never hear about it...because it has been NON-PC to REPORT IT.
And deal with it before it become headline news...does COLUMBINE ring a bell? How about the JOCK bully problem?
Or does M$M still favor MINORITIES?
" Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it "
-Santayana
February 19, 2008
9:41 a.m.
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sls writes:
jdub88, maybe you and squatch should get together and reproduce, maybe you could raise the next hitler
February 19, 2008
9:46 a.m.
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fcatalina writes:
Kids will make fun of each other, and, gasp, even fight sometimes. Schools should punish kids when they are caught doing this.
Adults will speed in their cars, and, gasp, even fight sometimes.
The police should punish them when they are caught doing this.
Front page news? Nothing could be more common and universal.
Next RMN headline: "Sun rises spreading warmth, light over Denver area"
February 19, 2008
9:51 a.m.
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Talance writes:
OK, so many of us (including myself) were bullied as kids. It's a practice that's been going on for decades - probably centuries. The question is, how many school shootings were there in the 70s? 60s? 50s?
Not that reducing or eliminating bullying is a bad idea, but tying that to school shootings just doesn't hold water.
February 19, 2008
10:02 a.m.
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Eric writes:
hakj has a point. The world is not perfect...or fair. Grow some thick skin and adjust.
sls...you are a hypocrite. You do not like bullying but are taunting JDub and Squatch.
February 19, 2008
10:24 a.m.
bookwerm writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
February 19, 2008
10:31 a.m.
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fiesty writes:
"petty"? "non-issue"? "grow some thick skin and adjust"?
Are you all crazy??? This goes FAR, FAR beyond the bullying or fighting that is normal for children, into the realm of a hate crime and harassment.
I guess children of african-descent historically should have "grow a thick skin and adjust" to slurs like "n*gger", and it's "petty" of Jews or Muslims children to complain about insults (like "terrorist") or harassment! I guess harassment, prejudice, racism, and bullying in schools is a "non-issue"...
February 19, 2008
10:33 a.m.
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Jeff writes:
To put in my two cents,
Yeah, unless there's more to this story, it all kind of baffles me why this article is here.
As for the previous poster who expressed amazement that such a thing could happen with the much-touted "zero tolerance policy for bullying," such a bureaucratic feel-good policy won't prevent bullying from happening just as it has for past generations.
I guess the schools will have to pass a nothing-bad-or-even-remotely-uncomfortable-will-ever-happen-to-your-child-at-school policy, to keep all parents happy.
February 19, 2008
10:35 a.m.
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Eric writes:
jdubb....I'll hold bookworms head if you flush the toilet!
fiesty...we know what the slurs are...you don't have to write them. Those are offensive.
February 19, 2008
10:46 a.m.
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Squatch writes:
Maybe they should have called him a wetback then it would have been okay. Since we dont care what people call people with brown skin and spanish last names.
February 19, 2008
10:47 a.m.
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mytwosense writes:
Jeff, that's kind of my point. If this kind of extended harassment is still happening to children, then it really is nothing more than a "feel good policy" with little enforcement. And there's not much incentive to enforce it if the public's attitude is largely "this is no big deal, grow a thicker skin." Thankfully, that doesn't appear to be (most) of the public's opinion. I applaud the RMN for their efforts in keeping us aware that these "Feel good policies" are not being fully enforced.
February 19, 2008
10:48 a.m.
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fiesty writes:
Jeff- you're wildly overexagerating. There's a difference between unrealistic expectations in the school environment like you cite, and active, abnormal harassment and hate crimes.
Eric- interesting values you have. You find one term "offensive", but believe another is okay, despite the fact they are both ethnic slurs. Both are unacceptable, both legally and morally.
jdub88- let's hope you're never the victim of a hate crime or harassment, or that someone stands by with your mentality. Wonder if you'd consider it "WAHbulence" if it happened to you??
February 19, 2008
10:52 a.m.
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fiesty writes:
mytwosense- the posters on this board can't seem to differentiate between normal childhood teasing, bullying, and active harassment/hate crimes. The first is to be expected, the second expected but not tolerated, the latter is a crime and completely unacceptable. Instead, they want to lump ALL into the category of "oh, mommy don't want her baby to get hurt". So-called "feel-good" policies are one thing, enforcing our laws on hate crimes another.
February 19, 2008
10:56 a.m.
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Squatch writes:
sls
Dont confuse me with Sasquatch. JK
February 19, 2008
11 a.m.
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fiesty writes:
You know, if what happened to this boy (ethnic slurs, harassment, theft, and physical assault) happened to an adult, whether in the workplace or public or home, it would qualify as a hate-crime and the victim could sue and the victimizer prosecuted. Why then does Jeff, Eric, jdub88, and their ilk believe that a child deserves LESS protection under the law?
February 19, 2008
11:04 a.m.
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fiesty writes:
jdub88- it doesn't matter whether you're white, black, purple, brown, green, christian, muslim, atheiest, american, german, or from Timbuckto- hate crimes are WRONG, no matter who they happen to! Just because you've had a bad experience, you think we should just tolerate it and people should just "get over it". With that mentality, women, blacks, and indians would still be considered sub-human and second-class in this country. I, for one, am glad we have equal protection under the law, and the right to expect to be free from harassment and hate-crimes.
February 19, 2008
11:07 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Sounds a lot like Klebold and Harris, and the school always absolves itself of the culture, that leads some to be bullied to the fringes, of the social enviroment we call education. Sad when they strike back, and to think it might have been preventable. The butt of everybody's jokes, till the body count comes in, and then it's too late. You can beat him, steal his school supplies, belittle him...until he turns and strikes back. Then you cry out, but it's too late. Do those who work in our schools with our children ever see the big picture, or are we fated to another sad event where children pay the price? They can change security measures, but are they able to change the heart? Till then, don't be supprised.
February 19, 2008
11:18 a.m.
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OhBrother writes:
wow...no wonder this kid got bullied to this degree, look at more then half of these post from ADULTS(although it seems like some of you are under the age of 10) and it's easy to see why this is a problem.
would you rather hear a bout a pop star going to rehab, a ball player jucin up, polticans arguing over issues that won't be resolved, or WHAT IS ACTUALY HAPPENING IN OUR SCHOOLS TODAY?!?! I don't think anybody said they want a school to promise that nothing bad will ever happen to there kids-thats unrealistic, but when is enough a enough..." get a thicker skin, get over it, stand up and fight" WHAT!?! he did fight, it looked like he got his head stomped! He did get over it, he went back to school *gasp* to learn and the other kids wouldn't let it go..but maybe we should not say anything and ignore the situation, nothing bad can happen right? Not like it's a place to get an education or anything, why wouldn't this kid be ready to throwdown, shame on his parents for not teaching him how to bust heads by age 14..
1 last peice for you r-tards that said if he was black or mexican and white kids had beaten him up then everyone would care...hello, he is white, centenial is a good area and IT MADE THE NEWS. You already won, if it was a poor kid regardless of color then nobody would care. Regardless of color and class-this is improtant. Not front page material but still valid in todays world
February 19, 2008
11:22 a.m.
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Eric writes:
I'm an cracker Pollock. They are just words. Go ahead and call me that...I won't sue you.
February 19, 2008
11:26 a.m.
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Brain writes:
Interesting that a good portion of the posts here think this is not worth reporting on. For articles that are new today it is leading in comments (47).
February 19, 2008
11:27 a.m.
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Eric writes:
48 now!
February 19, 2008
11:31 a.m.
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Eric writes:
Jdub! I'm appauled! haha.
February 19, 2008
11:36 a.m.
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OhBrother writes:
jdub88
your right, when white kids get bullied by minorites it isn't a hate crime. They just grow up, join the klan and blame every downfall on society on other races.
Oh your not part of the klan? I wonder why I thought that...
"we must secure the existance of our people and a future for white children" 1488
Gee, you did a remarkable job at "getting Over" being builled in school by minorites, doesn't sound like you hold a grudge or anything
February 19, 2008
11:37 a.m.
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mytwosense writes:
fiesty & ohBrother, well said!
February 19, 2008
11:38 a.m.
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Squatch writes:
Hey eric
Im a Dirty mexican greaser wetback cabbage picker illegal alien
do you wanna hang out? All names I have been called in my lifetime.
All my friends are pollocks.
February 19, 2008
11:44 a.m.
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reddog writes:
Kids will be kids. If the kid were fat they'd probably tease him for that. Have you ever heard the "saying kids say the meanest things" Doesn't seem very news worthy to me.
February 19, 2008
11:52 a.m.
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hakj writes:
Bookwerm and Talance
You are both correct. There were no school shootings in our days in school. The population was less. As a society we’ve matured a bit and have become less tolerant. I think over all this is good. Our kids should feel safe about going to school, at all times at any school. Kids do need to suffer the consequences of their actions just like adults do.
However, kids will be kids. They will fight. They will say some pretty mean things and not realize it. They will fight some more. I taught each of my kids to defend themselves. I taught my kids to respect others and to respect life. My kids don’t cause fights and will do everything in their power to avoid fights. But all of my kids will use force and intervene when a smaller kid is being bullied. I’ve also taught my kids that if they fight they more than likely will be suspended whether they caused the fight or not.
February 19, 2008
12:01 p.m.
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Eric writes:
Squatch...I'll bring the Keibasa if you bring the Nachos!
February 19, 2008
12:01 p.m.
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Talance writes:
So, wait - why is this a hate crime again? Because some kid called another kid a Nazi? If they just call him stupid, fat and ugly, do the kids who're saying those things deserve less punishment?
And do these kids really know what a Nazi is? They have to before they can be accused of a hate crime because that's what hate crimes are all about, right? It's about what the person felt and was thinking when the crime was committed rather than the crime itself, so..... if the kids don't fully know the history of the Holocaust and how terrible the Nazis were, can they be accused of a hate crime?
February 19, 2008
12:04 p.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
SEND IN THE SWAT TEAM!!!!!! The Thought Police and Courtesy Patrol will follow them to mop up the miscreants.
February 19, 2008
12:27 p.m.
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Theoldguy writes:
Adrian is quickly finding out how ignorant American kids are. Good ol' Cherry Creek may be the next school to be visited by a person with a score to settle. Getting a "thicker skin" really isn't the answer since he may grow to become a lawmaker with a score to settle which is more harmful than a deranged killer. School is for learning and the kids at Centennial middle school are now skating on the perceived affluence of their parents and in the near future they will be attempting to find a niche in the workforce and find themselves lacking. As for Adrian? Hopefully he'll move back to Germany and get an education fitting a scholar. You people just don't get it.
February 19, 2008
12:51 p.m.
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Talance writes:
Theoldguy -
I agree overall with what you're saying except the part about "how ignorant American kids are". You don't think there are bullies in the schools in Germany? The kids picking on him were ignorant, to be sure, but let's not make it sound like this is some problem only we in the United States have.
February 19, 2008
12:52 p.m.
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bookwerm writes:
Eric and Jdubb, trust me, you don't want to touch an angry 230 lb man able to do serious harm.. and I bet you ARE smaller than me.. so it is ok if I abuse you right? No big deal? I will stick your heads so deep in the crappers you will never see daylight again. Not that hard to find you, I will just drive around until I smell big piles of crap. And there you will be.
February 19, 2008
12:57 p.m.
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bookwerm writes:
It occurs to me that Jdubb says it is "ok" to get beat up since he was beat up and he is fine.. well, that sure sounds like rationalization for his treatment.. perhaps he was molested also, and that is also "fine" since no one stopped it. Perhaps he was raped by these minorities, and liked it.. that is also "fine" since no one stopped it.. Interesting, folks who went thru unpleasant times either excuse them (jdubb) and protect its continuation so THEY don't look like fools (since they obviously grew up in defective households were it WAS ok to beat up others), OR they are staunch defenders of others..
February 19, 2008
1:07 p.m.
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JB writes:
Yup, keep making light of the situation. In a few years if this kid, or one who has had to endure similar things, ends up committing a school shooting...I wonder how funny it will be then.
February 19, 2008
1:07 p.m.
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Eric writes:
Bookwerm....You sound fierce.....like a tiger!!! GGRRrrr!
February 19, 2008
1:07 p.m.
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Eric writes:
Bookwerm....You sound fierce.....like a tiger!!! GGRRrrr!
February 19, 2008
1:11 p.m.
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Theoldguy writes:
Talance
Excuse me. I did overreach on that one. A buddy just told me about his sisters trip to France. The Muslim kids chase the Jewish kids and no one does anything about it. She'll never go back to France.
So, thinking about this brings a thought to mind. I went to Catholic schools...kindergarten to a military academy and on to Regis U. My life may have been a bit more structured with maybe a forced sense of politeness, but I see the disrespect of the younger generation (since about the mid seventies) and I wonder what the hell has happened. I'm glad that I'm older and getting close to the end of the road since this apparent laissez-faire in society has only coarsened us as human beings. I know that I have raised good children that are a benefit to society. But what about the rest?
February 19, 2008
1:17 p.m.
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Eric writes:
He's only 230....you could probably hold AND flush. I'll watch and call him names.
February 19, 2008
1:24 p.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
bookwerm,
Well said, brother. We can see what happens when bullying goes unanswered right here on this board. The weak-minded who can't handle it are quite obvious.
Let's look at jdub88 who claims to have gotten over some minorities poking fun at him: "And no, I didn't call the WAHbulence. I just got over it."
Here's another of his gems, <<"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children.” 1488>>
1488 is a code for neo-nazis. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen...
So, yeah, right... he got over his glitch with minorities by becoming a chicken-sh*t little fascist advocating segregation and murder. Eric and jdub88 are little goose-stepping punks who sport swastikas under their blouses.
Unlike in America, Germans have outlawed Nazi rubbish. Do the Nazi thing in modern Germany, do time in jail. We Americans have some catching up to do. Ironically, America is one of the world's last sanctuaries for these scum. Germans know that Nazis are good for nothing; they only poison the dialog with utter nonsense. Might just as well lock them up.
So, it's ironic that a kid from modern Germany would be called a Nazi. More Americans are Nazis per capita by far these days. The punks who bullied Adrian are the real Nazis and they're morons who've probably learned their habits of obstinate stupidity from their few mothers and many unemployable fathers.
Somehow, I don't believe that any neo-nazis like jdub88 or Eric are finished with their lifetime quota of swirlies and wedgies. Guys like this, who think its funny or acceptable to see any kid get pushed around or beat up because of who he is, are the perfect subjects for pranks and punching practice.
February 19, 2008
1:29 p.m.
Suggest removal
Bob299 writes:
Check out the article on the Denver Post. It provides more detail, and you can see why it's considered news. There's a photo of the kid with a bloody face and broken collarbone.
February 19, 2008
1:37 p.m.
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Eric writes:
You left out quotas on Wet-Willys and Spit-Wads.
February 19, 2008
1:45 p.m.
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Cutler6 writes:
Everyone says "in my day" well it's not in your day anymore, in "my day" there was fists and name calling, today there is guns, knives and a higher level of violence. Did anyone have a shooting at any school that they knew about in "their day"?
February 19, 2008
1:52 p.m.
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Golden writes:
Perhaps we should look at the liberal use of the term Nazi and Fascist by the Liberals and the Liberal news media.
February 19, 2008
1:57 p.m.
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davies writes:
'Outraged' types: I read your posts and your letters to the editor all the time. You self-righteously express your indignation, and you broadcast your compassion and sense of fairness with your bullhorn. "Look at me everybody! I'm so nice! This makes me so angry!" You are always 'appalled', but do you ever really do anything to actually make the world a better place? Your solution to everything is always that "they" should do something, usually meaning the government. But doggone it, you're a nice person, and that's what's important...
'Get over it' types: Sheesh, you could make your point with a little more compassion, couldn't you? Could you try to find a way to help the 'outraged' types understand that not every wrong will be always be righted in this world? That is, without sounding like you more or less support the perpetrators and don't care about the victims?
'bookwerm': You sound a little schizophrenic. Good luck to you my friend.
February 19, 2008
2:05 p.m.
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titancain writes:
I'm 100 percent positive that the childrens parents are good chistians. LOL
February 19, 2008
2:17 p.m.
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Bookem writes:
kimm1970, bookwerm & Cutler6 ... I have to agree.
I think everyone who says 'let kids be kids' and 'this stuff will 'just happen' are flirting with danger. I am willing to bet that if you were the one being pushed around... or better yet... if it were your child coming home in tears you may feel much different.
February 19, 2008
2:28 p.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
jdub88,
Here's a simple test for your addled brain: If spreading Nazi crap is not a crime in America then how many convictions were there last year for spreading Nazi crap in America?
Give up?
Zero, you dope. Nazism is a crime in Germany. Sadly, your kind of stupidity is still perfectly legal in America. We cannot turn to our government to put you where you belong.
So, if we meet on some fine day, watching you pick your teeth up off the floor after I slam my fist into your jaw will be my way of expressing my true opinion regarding your love of Hitler and your enjoyment at seeing ethnic Germans get stereotyped, slandered, and pushed around for being like you, schweinhund.
February 19, 2008
2:38 p.m.
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Eric writes:
I think Bookwerm and HolierThanThou should fight at the flag pole. They seem so agressive...we might be able to see a couple good slaps, hair-pulling, and high pitch screams. I bet Bookwerm wins though...He said he's HUGE!
February 19, 2008
2:42 p.m.
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davies writes:
Bullying is not nice. I could beat you up, but bullying is bad. But I could.
February 19, 2008
2:52 p.m.
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Eric writes:
Nice conversations folks (especially Bookwerm) but I need to go. My mom is driving me to my figure skating practice and we are running late. Bookwerm is a sissy!
February 19, 2008
2:55 p.m.
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Talance writes:
HolierThanThou -
Do you feel that outlawing ideas is the best way to promote stability in a society? There are some things we outlaw as ideas rather than actions, such as threatening the life of the President or planning a school shooting, but those things are few and far between. Outlawing a general idea, such as white supremacy, is a very dangerous precedent, no matter how much we disagree with it. Then you have to get into the shades of grey.... if we outlaw the neo-Nazis in the country, we should outlaw anyone promoting their own race over others out of fairness, right? Can you say NAACP?
I'm not promoting that idea, nor am I saying the NAACP should be disbanded. I'm just seeing where that particular train of thought leads.
February 19, 2008
2:55 p.m.
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rmnreader writes:
All of you simple-minded people saying this is not news or should not be on the front page are obviously not paying attention. Nearly every school shooting that has happened in the US is done by a kid who has been bullied. Hmmm. Here's a thought if we focus on stopping the bullies maybe we could avoid a few of our children being killed by a classmate who decides to take matters in their own hands & start shooting?!
February 19, 2008
2:56 p.m.
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momof5 writes:
It is appalling that these kinds of things happen in schools today. What good is all the diversity training and education? All of my 5 children went to Jeffco schools where they met prejudice and bullying because they are biracial. My response to them when confronted with a bully was to tell the bully the first time to stop. A second time and they went to the principal and/or teacher. A third time and the bully got the a$$ kicking of his life. There usually wasn't a fourth time. Sometimes that's all bullies understand.
February 19, 2008
2:59 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
So when the kid getting a beating stands up and lets the lead fly, don't cry. Recognize what was allowed to occur to him. You'll condemn him for his actions, but the school administration needs to be held accountable and keep this in check. This kid should acually sue the school administration for failure to protect him. Set a new legal presidence for assaults occuring in schools. If there is enough bullying, make it a class action, and force them to pay out for better security. No kid should be abused at the hands of others in a state facility, period. If it were my kid, a car would pull up and I would kick the principle to sleep. I'm 300 lbs., I been to gladiator school, I'm not Mick Jagger, I can get some satifaction. If he ever healed from the beating I gave him, he might have a better understanding of the situation. No kid should have to suffer at the expense of a lethargic principle who is slow to respond. I don't send my kid to school to be abused.
February 19, 2008
3:24 p.m.
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PJM writes:
Maybe instead of worrying that every kid that gets beat up or picked on is going to grab a gun and shoot up a school, we should start wondering why there are so many more kids that are crazy enough to do something like that. It's not the bullies fault when a school shooting happens. It's the fault of the crazy kid who does it. Maybe we should take a look at the doctors who pump kids full of ADD meds. Maybe we should worry about the parents who aren't paying enough attention to notice thier kid is a whack job. Maybe when a shooting happens it shouldn't be the only news story we see or hear and the little crazies won't get thier 15 minutes of fame from doing it.
Kids have been beat up and picked on as long as there have been kids. School shootings are a recent problem. In the past kids could duke it out at the flag pole with the bully and often end up being friends the next day. It's only since we've tryed to make every kid a prim and proper minature adult that we've had these shootings.
February 19, 2008
3:33 p.m.
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Theoldguy writes:
I rest my case for birth control..............
February 19, 2008
3:38 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Where I grew up, violence was the only way to rise up the food chain. You'd be suprised what violence can accomplish. I had to learn it at an early age. This kid was getting his lessons like I did, at the hand of the state. When your heart turns cold, and killing no longer has an effect on your conscience, those who trained you ask why. It was a hard thing for me to change my heart, but when those in charge refuse to protect kids, they should be relieved of thier position. If you harm a child, molest a child, beat a child, I think you should see what it's like on the recieving end. Many kids have nobody to protect them, they can only ask why, what a joke! Yes, I would sacrifice my liberty and life for a child. The years go by, but scars remain, they were cut in quite deep. We used to stab the child abusers in prison, today they walk freely with some liberal shrink asking the abuser why. No, I think violence would have a more profound impact on the child abuser. State doesn't hold them accountable, it coddles them with professionals only to have them repeat what many believe to be incurable. Thus the registry, at least we all know who they are.
February 19, 2008
3:52 p.m.
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Eric writes:
Why is everybody in this conversation (including myself) bringing up how we are going to fight eachother? It is a joke. I hope the German boy is alright and that the bullies are punished. I would not worry about him anyways. I guess he is an acting prodigy so he will probably be the next rich action hero and live a richer life than any of us anyways.
Another thing.....weighing alot does not mean you are tuff...it just means you might be overweight and need to exercise. 300lbs?....230lbs?...you might want to drop some pounds before fighting....you might go into cardiac arrest.
February 19, 2008
3:54 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Ask yourself, how many kids are sexually abused in Colorado schools every year? Has ever a year gone by without a conviction of a teacher. Not even the mob would do a kid this way, no crime boss has ever been convicted of sexual battery on a child. I learned a lot of crap at thier hands, but we didn't molest kids. Drugs was the mobs biggest downfall, it poisoned kids, turn the public against them. Still a school teacher has a lenthy rap sheet for molesting kids, simply look at the convictions every year. Bullying, I wish that was the only problem in our schools. If the teachers can't go a year without putting thier hands on a kid, how do you hold the kids accountable? If you think it's a minor problem, look at the numbers nationwide.
February 19, 2008
4 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Sorry Eric, my record bears I've walked the walk, I can get satisfaction. I used to do it professionally. Your right though it's not size, it's ability.
February 19, 2008
4:21 p.m.
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davies writes:
dosquatrodos: It is pathetic to try to show your opposition to bullying, by challenging someone to a fight. Calm down and THINK!
February 19, 2008
4:22 p.m.
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Talance writes:
Louie -
Saying a school is responsible for a school shooting, to me, is akin to saying a woman is responsible for being raped because she wore provocative clothing. They may have been able to do something more to prevent it, but the responsibility for the act lies with the shooter (or rapist), not the victims.
February 19, 2008
4:27 p.m.
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lilstckadynamite writes:
Sadly its harsh treatment for a child to endure.
whiterevolution com
February 19, 2008
4:36 p.m.
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Diff writes:
First ....
for those commenting about this being a foolish front page lead story - look at the posts it has generated ...
WE need to stop coddling our kids - plain and simple.
maybe then they will grow up knowing how to handle ignorant people - instead they expect someone to step in and make it all OK again when ever they get their feelings hurt
Like the man said in the song -
GET OVER IT
February 19, 2008
4:42 p.m.
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hikingartist writes:
To those who would questioned the importance of this story, see the story in the Denver Post, where they have a bloody pictue of the victim (they also broke his collar bone) and, especially newsworthy is a 2-year-old amendment to Colorado's hate-crime laws could make Adrian's assailant the first youth in Colorado to be sued for punitive damages on the basis of school bullying.
I know alot of dopes in here could care less and talk big about "growing a thicker skin", but guess what? Things have changed since "the good old days". No, we are not going to grow thicker skins, or take self defense classes when we could be learning something cool like Web Programming or music lessons. We are going to pursue what we are good at and the bullies & their parents can straighten up and behave civilized, or get dragged to court and pay out the yazoo.
Go Adrian!
February 19, 2008
5 p.m.
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Talance writes:
hikingartist -
It's bad enough that they're used criminally, but now hate crimes can be applied to civil penalties in Colorado as well? You can't even imagine the dread I feel, thinking of the implications of such a law. Does the judge actually award more money based on what the defendant was thinking?
February 19, 2008
5:35 p.m.
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ezekiel777 writes:
People,People,People... this is a child you're talking about..
You're politicising a child.
One, this should be news, he was physically beaten.
Two, he and every other bullied child should be protected.
Three, all bullying has to stop....PERIOD!!!
February 19, 2008
6:30 p.m.
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IronmanCarmichael writes:
I wonder how cavalier some of these people would be if it were their kid being bullied.
February 19, 2008
6:30 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Talance, I agree, even a prostitute can suffer rape. However, if I allow an enviroment to exist that would be injurious to a child am I not somewhat culpable should injury occur? If I allow drug dealers to exist in this enviroment is it safe to say some are going to become users. If they allow bullying by turning a blind eye, are they not somewhat responsible should something bigger happen? Our schools deal with a lot of society's ills for sure, but that's not a crutch for them to lean on. I know for a fact they can do better, it's being proven in Denver as we speak by some great people who believe schools are for education. My daughter's school is one of them. But because it is a charter school, DPS pays them no attention. Her principle and teachers are active in every childs life as it walks through the door of thier school. The administration of her school is extremely involved with each childs progress. They exceed where public schools fail, it's called disipline. They don't make excuses, or lean on crutches to support thier failures; instead the find solutions and achieve great success by strict adherence. There is no bullying, period. Students are taught to respect the least among them. It's amazing what can happen with the right people in charge. The principle walks the walk, he demands the same not only of his staff, but of his students as well. It's called accountabilty. DPS is a political cesspool of failure, and our kids are paying the price. Enough is enough, time for the winds of change. Oh, now the teachers will quit, let them go. Find better, I did. My daughter's principle has my respect, he doesn't put up with my crap or any other parent; he does what's in the best intrest of the child. Isn't that the crux of his job? Five kids, I can tell you all about the gang infested, low achieving public schools, led by the worst educators I ever witnessed.
February 19, 2008
6:40 p.m.
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mrfxx writes:
Sorry Talance, but unfortunately we can tie bullying to school shootings. Kliebold & Harris posted stuff about bullies - and ultimately, they snapped. Frankly - as a geek - if the story had been that a group of geeks had beat the snot out of some jock bullies, I might laugh. (Harris & Kliebold were reported to have been bullied & beaten by jocks regularly - and magically, the cameras which were supposed to catch that kind of behavior in the halls had no film in them). As much as 2-3 years later, parents of kids at Columbine were reporting that their kids were still being bullied - and often those kids were either minorities or special needs students - but heck, the football team did well, so why change the culture of the school towards bullying?
In the past, the guys (and yes, it was usually the guys) would meet someplace & literally duke it out one on one. Yes, somebody could have been killed - but the fistfights were generally broken up after one or the other (if not both) ended up with a split lip - and it was over. Fighting graduated to knives as gangs increased, but using knives still mostly kept it to a one on one situation. Today it has escalated to guns (thanks in large part glorification of use of guns by the media, including movies & TV - not too many kids watch the news) - and altogether too often when these kids snap, they have multiple firearms, most often semi-automatic, and not only take it out on their tormentors, but on anyone who happens to be in the vicinity.
I am not defending the victim who snaps and commits murder - I am saying that bullying is something the schools need to control (no, recess tag does NOT count as bullying). I am also saying this kid did it the right way: put up with it for as long as he could, then went to adults for help (it appears the schools chose not to take him seriously), then went thru the courts. Would you folks who think that approach isn't news would be happier if he had found a gun & shot the 4 boys in question?
February 19, 2008
7:24 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
You know the principle at Columbine never did own up. It was his school, he allowed the jocks to rule over others. It's not totally his fault, Klebold and Harris have the bulk of the blame. However as the top dog in the food chain, he allowed the enviroment to exist. Thus some of the blood of those innocent children is upon him as well. He was never accountable for what happen, although I am sure it grieved his conscience plenty. Sometimes that can be the best punishment for one who never owns up. Yes, you are right, it still goes on at Columbine. Cherry Creek as well, they treated my friends kid pretty bad, but he stuck out Cherry Creek till he graduated. Go see Richel Middle School here in Denver, it needs a good flushing. Sad, public schools are shambles and not just academic shambles. I am sure somebody will come on with a bag full of excuses; hope they start with the dropout rate! Why go and get your ass kicked everyday, I give this kid in the story a lot of credit for even returning. I am so grateful to have gotten my child out of Denver Public Schools, I didn't have the years of her education to waste while they expermented with change. My daughter's current principle at the charter school was God sent. He even made the RMN front page twice for his achievements. Can't keep a good man down (but DPS will keep on trying, they ignore him like a plague). I didn't go past the eighth grade, but I know success when I see it.
February 19, 2008
8:57 p.m.
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Ginger writes:
It's despicable to me that all you posters are making such a joke about something that is clearly traumatizing to a good child who's trying his best to succeed in school and make a life for himself. I moved here 16 years ago from Florida because I hoped that Colorado was a more tolerant and progressive state, yet you people making jokes about high school bullies calling another classmate a Nazi remind me of all the gun-totin', beer-drinkin', rebel-flag wavin' yee-haws that live on "the redneck Riviera" in North Florida. Where does one have to go to escape imbeciles and racists?
February 19, 2008
9:06 p.m.
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fortyfive writes:
danm, i'v heard it all
February 19, 2008
9:54 p.m.
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my3pugs writes:
So the preferred solution for some of you is that the kid fight back. Suppose he isn't much of a fighter, or that the bully is a much better fighter, the kid gets the crap beat out of him. I guess then that he learns to be a better fighter, maybe learn that a weapon can equalize. Or maybe he learns that next time he better keep himself down even more than he does. You are right, schools can't stop kids from bullying or being bullied, but the inability to stop it doesn't mean that schools then should just do nothing. Doing something, even if you think it is ineffective, doesn't mean it is ineffective or a waste of time.
February 19, 2008
10:01 p.m.
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MO writes:
Hmm.. I'm divided.. I'm German too, and used to be a bully.. in this case I gotta stick with the hometeam though and will happily invite Adrian and Heinz to the monthly German meeting.. should the bully's dare to follow, they will get a sweet taste of their own medicine, spoiled Cherry Creek wussies.
Heinz, falls Du das hier liest, mach auch einen Kommentar und ich schau nochmal rein und sag Dir vom Stammtisch bescheid.. Prost, und bring den Kleinen auch!
February 19, 2008
10:03 p.m.
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MO writes:
PS: Moment, Heinz, ich kenn Dich beruflich, dachte mir, dass mir der name bekannt vorkommt, ich melde mich bei Dir per email.
February 19, 2008
10:58 p.m.
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Golden writes:
Holier Than Thou and others. I see common mistake in your comments rgarding the terms Fascist and Nazi. You seem to imply these terms are synonmous with a right wing, cnservative ideology. The opposite is tre. National Socialism (Nazi) had as fundamental principles the same things we see today in our modern Deograts/Liberals. Example: Socialized healh care, highly regulated industry, euthanasia, state funded abortion, racial quotes for the workplace and education, abolition of private schools and strick adherance to a national education curriculum, the redistribution of wealth via the confiscation of inherited wealth, and or course, the purging of relegion from any public sector. Oh yeah, they also eclared was on smoking and mandated exercise. Mussolini's fascism was almost identical. Like Hitler, he used his Socialist agenda to gain power and then declared himself the dictator, used tha power to maintain his failed Socialist agenda until he died. I would agree if you argued fascism is not inherently left wing. However, in all but a few modern examples Fascism are righ wing Most are Socialist.
February 20, 2008
8:03 a.m.
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Talance writes:
Louie -
I agree, the schools can do better. And sure, they have some culpability if something happens. There's a big leap between that and saying "if the bullets fly, don't cry, recognize what was allow to occur to him" - and yet, it's happened to many before and will again, but we don't have constant school shootings. There's something more in the environment than just bullying. Which kinda leads to the next point....
mrfxx -
OK, so these kids were bullied. Pretty sure they had brown hair, too. Just because there is something common about them doesn't make that the cause. They were bullied, but lots of kids are bullied. What happened to these few that made them decide that a gun was the answer to the problem instead of fighting back physically or walking away? There's something else here that we're missing, but instead, we're so hung up on the bullying issue that we're not seeing it.
Once again, I'm not saying that bullying should be something allowed to exist, or that it didn't participate in the thinking of these killers. I'm just saying that there's something else to these school shootings - parental involvement, exposure to violence, lack of empathy for others, maybe a combination of these - that is the root cause. As long as we keep saying "eliminate bullying to prevent school shootings!", we'll never find it.
February 20, 2008
9:56 a.m.
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Charles_B writes:
Golden:
Your conflation of fascism with modern American liberalism sounds borrowed from the Big Doughy Pantload:
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascism...
To wit:
"The quintessential liberal fascist isn’t an SS storm trooper; it is a female grade-school teacher with an education degree from Brown or Swarthmore."
Funny stuff.
February 20, 2008
10:05 a.m.
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Charles_B writes:
Golden:
How about we settle for the definition of the guy who invented the word:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definiti...
"Granted that the XIXth century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the XXth century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right', a Fascist century. If the 19th century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the 'collective' century, and therefore the century of the State."
Your "definition" of fascism seems to be a simple formula: Anything I disagree with = fascism.
February 20, 2008
11:27 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
One of the reason these kids react violently is a matter of how far thier self esteem and self worth has been lowered by thier peers. In a complex world of imagery, some rise above others on superficial planes of desirability of society's severe judgements. We then allow these shallow individuals to secure thier position by demeaning those judged inferior by the superficial criteria allowed to be established. It is dangerous, and deadly, and sadly a person capable of true brillance and contribution to humanity may fall by the wayside in favor of a fool. I believe we as a society are judged, by the rest of humanity, by how we treat those less fortunate in our society. Granted the violent reaction may shock and scar society deeply; yet at what point does the guilt become shared by society that created this enviroment. As adults, we control the enviroments we allow our children to participate in, it's a trust we establish with these institutions and our children. Please, learn from the violent events, or be doomed to repeat them. Structure and teach your child to reach out to those who are challenged. Otherwise enjoy the dog eat dog world of the superficial. As a parent, I am accountable to my children to teach them. If you are a principle you are accountable for the enviroment you provide to society's children while under your supervision. When I fail to be accountable, I fail more than just myself, I fail others who trusted in me. I think we all can agree, we owe our children to provide for thier self-esteem and self-worth, it can only enhance our society as a whole.
February 20, 2008
3:35 p.m.
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fiesty writes:
So, given their comments on this board, I guess folks like Diff, jdub, Eric, fatroon, and Jeff must advocate revoking some laws in order to legalize the following. After all, they apparently think these actions are not only acceptable, but that children should expect it.
1. Assault ("Get over it!")
2. Harassment ("Grow a thicker skin")
3. Theft ("petty")
4. Hate Crimes ("need to stop coddling our kids")
5. Slander/libel ("non issue")
February 23, 2008
10:36 a.m.
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Catfish_goon writes:
From reading the lot of your comments, I will say that people in Colorado make me sick to my stomach. You all make me ashamed to say that I live here... between the White power people and some of you blind hispanics that cannot see past your own racist pride to understand that ANYONE can be a victim of hate crimes, let alone bullying.
Being a huge victim of bullying, I used to see fistfights pretty much every day during my junior high years. It took me finally defending myself by pummeling a bully's head into the pavement until he was barely conscious to make people just leave me alone... and even then I was penalized for it by our state's laws in which a Judge told me "if you raise your hand to defend yourself, even if someone else has thrown the first punch... you are just as guilty."
As for this kid Adrian, I really identify with the dude and I feel bad for him. If him and his Dad ever want to go fishing, he's more than welcome to come with me. I'd love to take the kid out and introduce him to people who don't give a damn about who he is and what he likes. If his parents or himself ever get on here to read this... my email is at thejuggernautstomps@yahoo.com if he ever wants to take me up on my offer.
-Dave