Veterans tuition bill targeted

State's colleges can't afford it, opponents say

By Chris Barge, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Wednesday, February 13, 2008

Purple Heart

The Colorado Department of Higher Education has quietly called on lobbyists for the University of Colorado system to persuade lawmakers to kill a bill that would grant free tuition to decorated combat veterans.

The bill, sponsored by Rep. Rafael Gallegos, D-Antonito, sailed through the House State, Veterans and Military Affairs Committee on a 9-2 vote last week. But opponents say the state's colleges and universities can't afford it.

In an e-mail Monday to two dozen Capitol lobbyists, Cathy Wanstrath, a lobbyist for the Colorado Commission on Higher Education, laid out a plan to kill the measure when it is heard by the Appropriations Committee on Friday.

"I think you all agree we need to kill this bill, and (the Colorado Department of Higher Education) has been happy to take the lead," according to the memo obtained Tuesday by the Rocky Mountain News. "However, we need your help in the next couple of days to count the votes to kill it in committee."

Gallegos said that Wanstrath already had contacted him.

"I understand we're talking about money here," he said. "I have done my best to explain the benefits of this. We have an obligation to care for our veterans."

Gallegos, an Air Force veteran, said he struggled to put himself through college at the University of Southern Colorado (now CSU- Pueblo) on the GI Bill when he was married with two children.

He said that some of the inspiration for his bill came from Christina Bybee, mother of Lance Cpl. John Doody, who grew up in Colorado and was shot in the right leg while serving as a Marine in Iraq two years ago. His injuries will prevent him from becoming a police officer, as he had dreamed. Now Doody wants to become a lawyer.

"Would you please create and pass a bill so John can realize his new dream," Bybee wrote in an October e-mail to Gallegos. "He's permanently disabled now from serving our country and is only asking to be educated so that he can do even more to benefit his fellow citizens.

"He doesn't want to be taken care of by the government for the rest of his life . . . he wants to continue serving his country but in a new way."

David Skaggs, director of the state Department of Higher Education, said that as a Marine Corps veteran of Vietnam, he has empathy for what veterans who have been decorated for combat action have gone through.

"Our position on this is taken with enormous regret because of this, but we simply have no idea what the price tag on that would be," Skaggs said.

The Legislative Council staff has said that accurate information does not exist on how many potential recipients might benefit from the bill.

But the staff noted that if 10 undergraduates took advantage of the tuition waiver at CU-Boulder for four years, it would cost the school $216,720.

A "hugely constrained" budget has no room for such a waiver,

Skaggs said, adding that it also would force CU's medical school to waive its $25,000 tuition for each decorated veteran.

HB 1068

The bill would provide free state tuition to individuals who were legal Colorado residents at the time of the military action for which they received the Purple Heart or a higher combat service medal. Veterans also would have to meet the one-year state residency requirement prior to enrolling at school.

• February 13, 2008

  4:38 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  mickfsisk writes:

  If a veteran is disabled then the VA will pay the full tuition and supplies plus a fully disabled veteran gets monthly payments so why do we need this bill? I was able to make it through college although it was not enough--but with work and loans I got through. So there is an option beyond making the public pay the full costs for all decorated veterans--not a smart bill

• February 13, 2008

  5:16 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Armie writes:

  The Colorado Department of Higher Education is so wrong to try to kill this bill. If it was a bill to increase any of their benefits they would be all for its approval.
  If it weren’t for the people who put their life on the line to secure the freedom that we have there wouldn’t be any Colorado Department of Higher Education.
  Higher education my foot they are a bunch of greedy selfish fools.

• February 13, 2008

  6:15 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  vudumom writes:

  This state has actually considered giving children of illegal aliens in-state tuition and they don't want to give our veterens a free education?The state won't crack down on employers who hire illegals,won't crack down on social services abuses by illegals,illegals children get free medical,free food stamps,housing help,WIC,free education,free lunches,free breakfasts,free summer school,free tutors,they get to drive our roads without licenses ,without insurance,they get interperters where ever they go the list can go on and on.The Colorado Department of Higher Education would like to deny a education for a veteran?How dare them!
  Our state caters to illegals ,and we all know it.Yet it won't give one thing to veterans that would help them after their service to our country?This is what is wrong with Colorado. They have their priorities backwards.
  Someone needs to remind them loud and clear who they are supposed to be looking out for.The citizens.Ritter wants to give healthcare to everyone including illegals and their children and their children ( I think it's mandatory that illegals children start breeding at age 13 ).
  Let me ask people a question.
  I went downtown a while back to drop my brother off at the bus station.I saw a lot of homeless people as I was driving around in that area.I didn't see one hispanic.Most were black and white.
  How can that be?Just something that gave me pause.

  It is wrong to deny veterans an education free of charge and give illegals and their children a free education.WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

• February 13, 2008

  7:06 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  rattlesnake writes:

  The Colorado Department of Education needs to get a grip. Why don't you set down and just work it out in stead of b___hing. Of course those in CU may not want any disabled Vet in a wheel chair to remind them how much freedom really costs.

• February 13, 2008

  7:19 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Earl writes:

  we cant spend the money on our Vets like this, doesnt anybody remember they are wanting to give it to the illegals who drop a kid here? cathy and cu should be ashamed to even think of this.

• February 13, 2008

  7:55 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  rickg19611 writes:

  The same scumbags want to give in-state tuition to illegal aliens, but claim they can't afford to help combat veterans. Every one of those bums should be fired, and replaced by humans. AMERICAN humans.

• February 13, 2008

  8:02 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  rickg19611 writes:

  Here's a solution. Fire all of the over-paid, under-worked political activitists posing as university professors and replace them with HONEST professors that want to teach. That should be enough savings to be able to grant every combat veteran - not just the wounded ones- with a simple thing like free tuition for their sacrifices.

  Before people learned about Ward Churchill, his salary would have been enough to cover 20 wounded veterans. And for every Ward Churchill, there are hundreds of similar scumabags roaming the halls of Colorado schools.

• February 13, 2008

  8:10 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  farsidefan writes:

  Rattlesnake,
  Point of clarifiction:
  The Colorado Department of Education is not the same agency as the Colorado Department of Higher Education. Nor does it have any control over it. CDE deals only with K-12.

• February 13, 2008

  8:30 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Adeline writes:

  Why must a discussion about scholarships for vets turn into an opportunity for racist immigrant-bashing? Don't forget the ranks of the military are filled with American-born Latinos and non-citizens hoping to get citizenship through service. Many of them don't make it.

  Here's a compromise: Vets do get a little _ too little _ tuition help from the feds. Why not add to that amount so the feds and the state both are paying vet tuition? We get two wins here: the opportunity to do the right thing (it isn't their fault we sent them into the jaws of hell for oil) and second, state economies get a huge boost fom high college graduation rates.

• February 13, 2008

  8:46 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Marshdale writes:

  I am a democrat, I am anti-unjustified war, but damn it, give these guys what they deserve. A chance to recover their losses at home. They need the help. Numerous tours of duty. Sand shoved up their wazoo. Loss of income and jobs. Emotional hardship. Stress on their families. How much more crap do they have to take. They have earned the right to recieve some extra help from US!!!! If you agree or disagree with the war does not matter. The personal sacrifice of these soldiers supercedes everything else. If we as Coloradans and Americans can't do this for our young men and women in the services, then shame on us.

• February 13, 2008

  8:52 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Darwin writes:

  The article gives a little insight as to how the cockroaches scurry about behind the scene. Shakespeare should have included lobbyists and politicians in addition to lawyers.

• February 13, 2008

  8:53 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  kathyM writes:

  Our colleges should not be crying poor when they're sitting on huge nest eggs called endowments and foundations. There is plenty of discretionary cash in those accounts to fund a few tuitions for veterans. For example, according to CU's 2007 Annual Report, its Foundation has $61 MILLION in unrestricted assets. $216,000 for 10 veterans for 4 years' tuition is 0.004% of that hoarde. Our veterans gave us 110%. They deserve more than 0.004%.

• February 13, 2008

  8:54 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  rickg19611 writes:

  The Colorado Department of Higher Education is a STATE GOVERNMENT AGENCY. The Colorado Commission for Higher Education is a lobbyist group representing colleges and universities. BOTH are teamed up to try to kill this bill. The same outfits that have supported illegal aliens getting reduced tuition rates too.

  Thanks Bill Ritter. You've sent your stooges out to "quietly" kill a bill that would will help disabled combat veterans. Sort of like your attempts to seal court records for corrupt plea bargains you made and tried to hide from the public.

• February 13, 2008

  9:10 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  ruckus writes:

  hey vudumom, i suggest using some vuduvagisil to help with breathing a little deeper so that an efficient amount of oxygen is supplied to the brain for a beneficial cause. In effect, all the "illegal immigrants are screwing our veterans over because they steal all the free education benefits, all the low paying jobs, and i just like to correlate anything regarding politics and economics as a way to whine about the mexicans down the block that ICE has yet respond to my phone calls to come get them" rhetoric might lead to some objectionable arguments. Take it from Adeline, there is a way to compromise than to flame the easy spanish speaking target.

• February 13, 2008

  9:11 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Firefox writes:

  As a decorated Marine from the Gulf war, all I can say is shame on anyone who sends 18 yr old kids to kill people and be killed and you cant even help them out upon their return. What has happened to this country it is so sad. God bless each and every young man and woman serving in the armed forces to you I say Semper Fidelis, to the ones that cant support these people I say go to hell!!!!

• February 13, 2008

  9:13 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  ruckus writes:

  How about bashing the politics that make it all possible...

  Poly = many
  ticks = blood sucking

• February 13, 2008

  9:16 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  ruckus writes:

  *empathizes with Firefox*

• February 13, 2008

  9:21 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Randy writes:

  It is too costly to help decorated vets, but not too costly to pay for the education of illigal immigrants. We know where our government priorities are in Colorado.

• February 13, 2008

  9:26 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  mytwosense writes:

  I'm confused. Doesn't the GI Bill cover tuition? Is there something that isn't covered by it? If so, then yes, I would like to see my tax dollars go towards making up the difference. However, I am trying to understand if there is overlap between the GI Bill and the proposed one.

  Can someone in the armed services explain this to me? Thanks.

• February 13, 2008

  9:27 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  rg writes:

  I used the GI bill to get through high school and Metro State by taking courses at Opp School and repeating them at Metro meaning I went to both at the same time. I thought veterans had the GI Bill today; it seems redundant to or double-dipping for College to provide free tuition. Richard Grimes, Deicide: http://www.geocities.com/r22037/think...

  Deicide Corner: “In the days when to be an Agnostic was to be almost an outcast, he [Parton] had the heart to say of the Mysteries that he did not know.” -- W.D. Howells

  Today: I don't have the courage to be an atheist so I become a deicide: the sword of time that slays all gods without exception. rg

• February 13, 2008

  9:35 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  kathyM writes:

  rg, Um...what?

• February 13, 2008

  9:35 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Firefox writes:

  Thanks Ruckus, war is terrible but for those who have seen it all I can say is this country can not support those people enough.

• February 13, 2008

  9:38 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  JustSayin writes:

  And how many of you speaking in favor of this proposal have voted for TABOR and are in favor of the 'shrub' tax cuts? My bet is that it's most of you. So other than rantin' here and beating your oh-so-patriotic chests, how about offering a solution on how to pay for this benefit?

  Personally, I think we should have a draft. The more people faced with the reality of being sent to bullsh#t occupations like Iraq so the corporatists can steal oil, the less likely of them happening in the first place.

• February 13, 2008

  9:41 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Firefox writes:

  Just saying and in what capacity have you served your country that allows you to have an opinion, right or wrong? I am guessing none.

• February 13, 2008

  9:46 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  rickg19611 writes:

  Here's a solution.... FIRE every single one of the fulltime political activists who get paid as professors. They have time to protest parades in Denver, protest firing frauds like Ward Churchill, appearing on TV and writing books defending the parents of Jon Benet Ramsey, but never seem to have any time to actually do any teaching at the state funded universities where get paid.

  The critics of supporting combat veterans admit the cost would be $5,000 per year for each veteran. Each of these professional activists make more than $100k a year. The cost of using others to fill in because the activist professors are too busy to teach, would be more than enough to support HUNDREDS of combat veterans.

• February 13, 2008

  9:49 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  bwest writes:

  Recession Ritter's administration is more concerned with driving up the cost of Government by unionizing state employees than taking care of our troops who have fought to defend our freedom against radical extremists who killed over 3000 US citizens on 9-11.

• February 13, 2008

  9:54 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  JTTAAB writes:

  A kid can get a "free ride" because he can play football but not for putting his or her life on the line to protect all the freedoms that we all enjoy each and every day?

  We should all be ashamed

• February 13, 2008

  9:56 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Scott writes:

  mytwosense,

  Navy veteran here. The GI Bill is a stipe end that is paid to a veteran when they are attending school. It is a sub-poverty level income that the veteran uses to pay for food, clothing, tuition, books, room, gas, insurance, etc. Since Peanut Brain Carter eviscerated the original GI Bill back in the late 70's, members of the military have to pay into it to get the schooling benefits. The Colorado Bill that Coke U. (and the rest) can't stand would pay for the tuition. The veteran would still have to pay for the housing, food, etc.

  In 1979 I received a whopping $327 per month while I was in school. A class mate who was fresh out of high school received $650 per month from Social Security because his father had died! So much for being repaid for five years of my life. BTW, when I was discharge from the Navy in March of 1979 I was grossing $650 per month as a Petty Officer Second Class.

  Scott

• February 13, 2008

  10:10 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Scott writes:

  The legislature's lapdog, staff, whimpered: (Paraphrasing) Oh, it would cost $216,000 to send ten Veterans to Coke U. for four years. Oh my!

  David Skaggs, a supposed ex-Marine, whimpered: "...we simply have no idea what the price tag on that would be." Hey dufus! Veterans (other than double dippers like you) make excellent employees. The "price tag" will be a lot less than sending the illegal aliens to Coke U. on a free ride. (BTW: Real Marines don't whimper, they adapt and overcome)

  I know where they can get that money! Shut down the loser "Ethnic Studies" department and fire all of the "plastic" Indians, etc. that "teach" there. Also, re-incarcerate the rape squad. The savings from those two boondoggles should supply enough cash to send any and all decorated veterans to Coke U. One other thing, DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT give a free ride to illegal aliens.

  Scott

• February 13, 2008

  10:14 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  mark79trans writes:

  We can't even cover the tuition for people who risked their lives serving their country and were decorated? Knowing a little about higher ed budgeting, this is sick. There are so many things they can cut without targeting veterans. I sure hope this bill passes; these people deserve a whole lot more then just free tuition! ...our thanks, gratitude, and whatever else we can do for them!

• February 13, 2008

  10:22 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  JYP3500 writes:

  Couldn't agree more with rickg19611's comments!

  CU, or any Colorado college for that matter, should comp the tuition for veterans. Even if they only made up the difference between the GI Bill benefits and the tuition costs, it would be fair (and the right thing to do).

  And CU's claim they can't afford it is ridiculous. There is so much waste in higher education, it's almost a crime. Didn't Betsy Hoffman take $600 taxi rides to the Flagstaff House? Didn't CU get embarrased with their lax oversight of expense accounting?

  Now, more than ever, CU needs a corporate guy (v. an educrat) to clean house by eliminating tenure, implementing a pay for performance system, and getting rid of all the bloat that is a natural by-product of tax payer funded institutions.

  There would be enough money left over to not only pay for veterans, but maybe reduce tuition for all students!

• February 13, 2008

  10:50 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  reddog writes:

  Screw CU, we offer illegals a break but can't do the smae for a decorated vet. They woory about the stupidest things and when a rea matter arises they handle like this? Again screw CU, I wouldn't put my kid through college if all there were was schools like them. Big babies, all of you tree huggers in boulder.

• February 13, 2008

  11:11 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Bookem writes:

  First, to all of those who have served in the military: THANK YOU and GOD BLESS all of you, and your families, for the freedoms we all enjoy. All to often I take them for granted.

  Second, if we can't find a way to pay for our veterans medical and post-war care, the very least we can do for them is pay for their tuition.

• February 13, 2008

  11:21 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  mdesatx writes:

  Im an Air Force vet who is retired in Texas. The reasons why I live here in Texas its that Texas supports their veterans a lot better than Colorado does in education and support with jobs and I'm from the San Luis Valley. There are educators and law makers who don't understand what a military member has to do and give up for those who make decisions for vets. A Vet with a good education will produce and have the sense to make something for themselves if they have the means to be educated and given the support of their state to do it. REAL SAD FOR COLORADO VETS . HOPE IT WORKS OUT FOR YOU MY MILITARY BROTHERS AND SISTERS.

• February 13, 2008

  11:24 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  redwhiteandBLUE writes:

  Much props to all our Vet's and their families, you deserve much better from the country you've protected.

• February 13, 2008

  11:28 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Devil_Dog writes:

  Price tag?

  Throwing a few more people in a room costs money? It wouldn't cost anything to not charge tuition. There might be less profit but there wouldn't be an outlay of cash.

• February 13, 2008

  12:19 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  RickyLee writes:

  Who do we need to send an email barrage to regarding this issue?

  Funny how if's fine to consider in-state tuition for ILLEGAL ALIENS
  but snub the very people protecting our country and our freedoms.

  DISGUSTING.

• February 13, 2008

  12:25 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Scott writes:

  RickyLee,

  I'd start with the mouthpiece David Skaggs at: executivedirector@cche.state.co.us

  Scott

• February 13, 2008

  12:31 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  LOUIE writes:

  College is for liberals, dope smoking hippies, and people who steal other people works, not a combat vet who put his life and honor on the line. It's for the rich kid and his silver spoon, not the one who bleeds for his country. Man, somebody grab the flag, America is but a memory! To be educated beyond thier intelligence. Before they spend another tax dollar on another, the priority of recieving assistance, regardless of social status, should be given first to the combat veteran. Some of his pals paid the house in full for the honor of his attendance.

• February 13, 2008

  12:50 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Scott writes:

  I just sent this off to Skaggs:

  Skaggs:

  From the report in today's, 13 February 2008, Rocky Mountain News you are a disgrace to your fellow Marines and members of the other branches of the U.S. Military. Yes, it will cost a small sum of money for Colorado's pathetic examples of "higher" education, University of Cocaine (Colorado), etc., to give free tuition to combat decorated veterans.

  Your mouthpiece, Wanstrath, can ONLY be operating under orders from your organization. Don't try to deflect criticism to someone else. As a former JarHead you know that the Commanding Officer, YOU, are responsible for all actions from your XO down to the newest private fresh from MCRD San Diego.

  If you have any bit of moral integrity left you will immediately support free college education for combat decorated veterans and immediately throw your units support behind Representative Gallegos' Bill. Also, assuming government employment has not yet resulted in a "spinal-ectomy", you will come out in opposition to free schooling for illegal aliens.

  My suggestion for the source of funds for these brave men and women would be for Coke U. to shut down the "ethnic studies" department and the NFL minor league team. The cost savings realized from abolishment of these two dubious entities should cover all expenses.

  Let us see if I get a response from YOU and not one of your "spear carriers". You have one chance to recover some of the honor that the U.S. Marine Corps instilled into you.

  Scott E. Farleigh
  formerly PR-2, USNR

• February 13, 2008

  3:12 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  T1anda writes:

  Kudos to you Scott! Think I will join in and get after Skaggs also!

• February 14, 2008

  9:27 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  rg writes:

  Scott: I salute you as my superior, a lowly fireman. I never made rank; however, they gave me the GI Bill. I never asked what can my country do for me or what can I do for my country. If today's vet has the GI bill, that is sufficient: Hello Rosie CVA 42; hello Boxer CVA 21: I loved the Navy. Todays' military is mercenary; it is over in Iraq sent there by Jesus Christ who told Bush to kill Saddam (as in Luke 19:27) and once dead, the mercenary military should have come home: Job well done; Saddam well dead. Richard Grimes http://www.geocities.com/r22037/think...

• February 14, 2008

  10:09 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  FlyNavy writes:

  Chris, just a comment on your article; I support the tuition bill for decorated veterans to help rebuild their lives. The comment that it will cost the Universities money doesn't hold much water for me especially when they are willing to pay "buffoon" football and basketball "coaches" enormous salaries to play a sport that feeds students to the pros! How many of the athletes of today ever gave up anything, except studying, as compared with our military personnel "All gave some and some gave all". These men and women know what sacrifice is. They are dedicated, loyal and above all responsible people. As a US Navy retired Commander, I support giving our men and women in uniform something more than a half-hearted parade upon their return to civilian life. Give them something that they can use. It would be a lot more than we got when we returned from Viet Nam.

• February 15, 2008

  9:16 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  rg writes:

  Permission to come on board? FlyNavy says: "Permission granted." The Commander gets my double salute. The pay in 1954 was far less than it is now in dollars then and dollars now in aspiring for equality, i.e. if today's military was getting paid in 1954 dollars with inflation added it would be far more than what I was paid: Having said that: It seems our universities are strapped for cash, though I agree with the Commander (who made his rank the hard way) ~~ on enormous salaries to play sports, etc; however, if a veteran is getting disability and has, also, the GI Bill or even if he is not getting disability but is decorated, he is getting the GI Bill: Therefore, unless he is not getting the GI Bill, give him/her tuition. "Ask not ... ."

• February 15, 2008

  10:47 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Scott writes:

  Hot DAMN! I got a response from Skaggs. It stated,

  "Dear Mr. Farleigh, Notwithstanding your inclination toward sarcasm and personal attack, I wanted you to have the attached statement about my reasoning on HB 1068 and the progress we are making toward a solution.
  
  With best wishes,
  s/David Skaggs"

  What he attached was well reasoned! Too bad his mouthpiece could not have stated the same thing in her letter to the politicos

  Scott

• February 15, 2008

  10:55 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Scott writes:

  My response back to Skaggs is:

  HOT DAMN! You responded, good for you.

  I agree with the observations and questions in the statement that you attached to your response. Go back to the Rocky Mountain News article and re-read what was quoted from your mouthpiece, Wanstrath. Then tell my why I shouldn't be madder-in-hell when she stated,

  "I think you all agree we need to kill this bill, and (the Colorado Department of Higher Education) has been happy to take the lead," according to the memo obtained Tuesday by the Rocky Mountain News. "However, we need your help in the next couple of days to count the votes to kill it in committee."

  This does not sound like the reasonable questions that are posed in the attached document that you sent to me. No where did your mouthpiece state that your department and the State legislators needed to work together to fill in the open ended issues. She only stated that the Bill needed to be "kill[ed]".

  Scott E. Farleigh