10 cents-a-bag surcharge?

Group advocating reusable grocery bags suggests fee

Daniel J. Chacon

Friday, February 8, 2008

Ken Papaleo / The Rocky

Equipment operater Dave Perez packs down trash at the Denver Arapahoe Disposal Site on Gun Club Road in Aurora on Thursday. Most paper and plastic grocery bags end up in landfills.

Darin McGregor / The Rocky

A woman walks out of the King Soopers in Capitol Hill with plastic grocery bags in hand. A proposed fee would aimed at discouraging their use would charge consumers 10 cents for each bag.

Paper or plastic?

It really doesn't matter because either one might cost you a dime more under a proposal making the rounds at Denver City Hall.

An organization called BetterBagsColorado is lobbying the City Council for legislation to charge grocery store shoppers 10 cents for every plastic or paper bag they use to carry their goodies home.

The proposal, which would affect supermarkets with annual revenues of $2 million or more, is intended to help protect the environment by reducing the plastic and paper bags that end up in landfills.

Although in the early stages, the idea is generating resistance from grocers, the plastic industry and at least one councilman.

"We're generally opposed to any new tax or fee on our customers," said lobbyist Chris Howes, president of the Colorado Retail Council, a trade association for national retailers doing business in the state, including grocers.

"A lot of the stores are doing some creative things without government mandating that they do anything," he said.

Group advocates action

But it's not enough, said Deborah Hart of BetterBagsColorado.

Hart said less than 5 percent of shopping bags are recycled and that her organization is trying to "kick start" the consumer into thinking about sustainability.

"The only way you're going to change your behavior, really, is to have a little ouch at the checkout because you get enough ouches and you'll make a new habit out of it," she said.

But Keith Christman, senior director of packaging for Progressive Bag Affiliates, a trade organization that represents manufacturers and recyclers of plastic bags, said such fees only make people buy more plastic trash bags or sandwich bags.

"We know from studies that we've done that 92 percent of consumers report that they reuse their plastic bags for things like disposing of waste around their house, litter bags in their cars, picking up after their pets and taking their lunch to work," he said.

Hart said she and a friend, Mary Helen Sandoval, got the idea after Laurie David, producer of the Academy Award-winning documentary An Inconvenient Truth visited Denver in March.

"I think that people do feel overwhelmed with the magnitude of global warming, and I think that people want to be able to make a difference, but they don't know where to start," she said. "This is something they can do, that we all can do."

Grocer offers incentive

Pat Greaser, director of operations for King Soopers, said the grocer is already engaged in voluntary recycling efforts.

Since the early 1980s, the grocer has been giving its customers five cents for every bag they bring back. In addition, the grocer offers three types of reusable bags and installed recycling barrels at its 141 stores. Since October, more than 6.4 million plastic bags have been recycled, Greaser said.

"Certainly, if a surcharge like that is passed, people are going to become much more conscientious about their habits," he said. "But the problem is not just plastic bags. There's tremendous opportunity in the entire recycling arena for consumers to make a difference, but they don't impose surcharges on those."

Councilman Charlie Brown said the proposed surcharge would make grocery stores the "bad guy."

"I think that you would see a revolt at the checkout stand, especially with grocery prices going up already as they are," he said.

Councilwoman Marcia Johnson said she initially supported the idea but that her husband, Will, gave her pause.

"I went home and said, 'Guess what, Will? I think I'm ready to get on board with this.' He does a lot of the grocery shopping for us and said, 'You need a reality check. People with large families who shop once a week have an awful lot to cope with if they're going to have a cloth bag for everything that they're buying,' and that's true," Johnson said.

chacond@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5099

Global concern

Marine researchers say discarded plastic bags can be found almost everywhere on the planet. Paper bags will biodegrade in the open environment, but the paper vs. plastic choice isn't so clear-cut. The best choice, many say, is reusable bags.

594 Btu are consumed producing each plastic bag.

2,511 Btu are consumed producing each paper bag.

70% more air pollutants are generated in manufacturing paper bags.

50 times more water pollutants are generated making paper bags in contrast to plastic bags.

91% less energy is consumed recycling a plastic bag. But 10 to 15 percent of paper bags are recycled, while only 1 to 3 percent of plastic bags are.

Where bags are banned

A number of cities and countries have banned or restricted plastic bags:

* London has a proposal on the boards to ban the bags. If it passes, the city would join 80 British cities and towns that have bans.

* San Francisco and Melbourne, Australia, have banned plastic grocery bags.

* Ireland imposed a tax on bags in 2002. This has reportedly reduced their usage by 90%.

* China has announced a ban on free plastic bags to take effect in June. The government called for "a return to the use of cloth bags and shopping baskets."

* Bangladesh also banned the bags in 2002. Drains plugged by the bags were cited as part of the problem during widespread monsoon flooding in the country in 1997 and 1998.

• February 8, 2008

  5:41 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  RJS07 writes:

  Why does this concept NOT give me that warm fuzzy environmental feeling? Perhaps the magnitude of global warming that is overwhelming us has to do with the fact that humans have less to do with it than some would have us believe.

• February 8, 2008

  6:32 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Earl writes:

  hey little debbie why not add a fee to all the plastic water bottles and soda bottles too? shouldnt there also be a fee on fast food bags? why just the grocers who meet your revenue line and not all of them? how many billions of plastic water and soad bottles go unrecycled every year? maybe you could start drive to add a fee to all glass and steel used around food too.

• February 8, 2008

  6:38 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Gene writes:

  I think we ought to charge Deborah Hart to breathe since she is putting out a pollutant.

• February 8, 2008

  6:54 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Hager writes:

  Personally I think we should get rid of all those cheap plastic bags. Consumers should have to buy reusable plastic bags or cloth bags. The argument that large families that shop once a week wouldn't be able to use cloth bags is way off base. I just bought six cloth bags for a total of $20 a few months ago and can fit more items in my cloth bags than I can into a traditional grocery store plastic bag. I am not a hug global warming advocate, however what harm does it do to reduce 'urban tumbleweeds'?

• February 8, 2008

  7:09 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  SASQUATCH writes:

  What would be most appropriate for my all-natural, all-organic, no artificial coloring, no MSG, no preservatives, range fed granola bars and bean sprouts? Should I provide my own carry-out with the very same bag that I obtained when I bought my Birkenstocks?

  Don't taze me bro.

• February 8, 2008

  7:16 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  jay045 writes:

  I've heard about a surcharge in Ireland that basically stopped plastic bags from being consumed. This is really important - plastic does not biodegrade, and it requires petroleum to produce.

• February 8, 2008

  7:54 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  T1anda writes:

  What next?? I think we should charge people a "walk in the door fee" especially if they are automatic doors! How bout "escalator" Fees? You know 10 cents to go up and ten cents to go down! That would save on electricity wouldn't it?? People, especially the elderly would then have to "use the stairs!" Anything to control global warming and get on the green bandwagon for Hart and Sandoval!!!! Denver has a duty to be PC right??? Good grief!!!!

• February 8, 2008

  8:08 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  G_Print writes:

  Unless you are going to pay someone the fee you collect to go out to the landfills and recover these plastic bags to recycle - forget about it, because that's where those bags will end up, and the fee will end up in some Bureaucrats pocket.

• February 8, 2008

  8:09 a.m.

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  PajamaPulitzer writes:

  T1anda:
  Don't forget about the "Fee Fee" which covers the cost of collecting all the fees.

• February 8, 2008

  8:09 a.m.

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  fleetmack writes:

  This is commonplace in Switzerland, seems to work well.

• February 8, 2008

  8:12 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  ColoNative writes:

  This is not about grocery bags. This is about the arrogant money grabbing politicians who spend more time thinking of ways to raise revenue than passing worthwhile laws. The Boston Tea Party was over a 5% tax on one product. These confiscatory tax addicts must be repelled. To the Colorado politicians - you are not movie stars or professional sports celebrities. Don't expect to be paid like they are. Get over yourselves, develop a budget based on a real working person's salary and keep your hands out of my pockets. As a real working person with a real job, I happen to earn my money. Go out, get a job, and earn your own. Stop your legalized theft of money that belongs to the hard working men and women of this state!!!

• February 8, 2008

  8:36 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Bob299 writes:

  Talk about another worthless "top down approach!"

  Why don't they emphasize education and accessibility to cloth bags or reusable bags. Deborah Hart of BetterBagsColorado should get off her lazy butt and start stomping around the state and campaign for people to buy and use cloth bags. If they were more readily available and promoted by the stores, I think they would be used more often.

  Most grocery stores reward you if you bring your own bags. This will probably do away with any benefit - instead focusing on punishing us with an added tax.

• February 8, 2008

  8:37 a.m.

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  Diff writes:

  One word - STUPID

• February 8, 2008

  8:39 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Hager writes:

  Rather than a tax/fee would it be all that bad to ban plastic bags? Who would lose? The only group I can think of is the recycling company.

• February 8, 2008

  9:07 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  rkymntpdlr writes:

  Charge a dollar per bag and bottle, that will get people's attention to the problem. People in this country don't do anything unless it hits them in the pocket book.

• February 8, 2008

  9:19 a.m.

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  AC writes:

  How arrogant of her to suggest that she can't "change" our behavior without doing this! What gives her the right to change our behavior? Get over yourself, lady.

• February 8, 2008

  9:24 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  greenleaf writes:

  I have been using cloth bags for over 10 years now. I always keep them in the car. They all paid for themselves long ago since the stores pay me each time I use them. After all these years, I have probably earned enough to take my wife out for a nice dinner.

  Making money or avoiding penalties isn't the reason to use them. It's literally "pocket change" either way. The fact is that it's naive to think that we aren't paying for them anyway, since this is part of each store's bottom line. This effort, if successful, would doubtlessly decrease bag usage, which would be a GOOD thing. Unfortunately, it also gets people's hackles up and makes them resentful of the process used. That's a very BAD thing!

  Here are some simple reasons to phase out disposable bag usage:

  For the fiscal conservative: For years you have been paying for these little pieces of plastic and paper without thinking about it. That adds up over time. Stop being a chump and get out of that loop!

  For those worried about the cost of oil: These products use oil to make and to transport. They are part of the demand that drives up the price of oil.

  For the environmentalist: All of the above plus the fact that thousands of animals die each year from ingesting plastic bags that they mistake for food.

  For all of us: aren't you tired of seeing the unsightly bag litter that ends up everywhere from our yards to our roadsides and waterways? I have even found them blown deep into wilderness areas!

  I think if people would try cloth bags they would fall in love with them. They hold more weight without breaking and can used for any kind of purchase from groceries to clothing, toys etc. It's just the smart thing to do! We shouldn't need a law from the city council to make us do the right thing.

• February 8, 2008

  9:31 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Smut writes:

  Denver City Council Idiots,

  Get your grimey government fingers out of my pocket. Another regressive tax is actly what your constituents need! Keep going & Denver will become the socialist state that Boulder already is. Don't you people have more important stuff to do?

  If you are bored, than go down & volunteer some time at the Food Bank of the Rockies - but do not play government & make our lives worse.

• February 8, 2008

  9:34 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  aRe writes:

  I wanna be as green as anyone else. But please! Landfill space is actually not really an issue. This is just another way for people to climb into our wallets.

• February 8, 2008

  9:37 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  fishtanksamurai writes:

  Taxes, surcharges, fees, fines...welcome to Denver.

• February 8, 2008

  9:41 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  anya writes:

  I've been using my own cloth bags for years; they work really well, and I like getting the 5 cents off my grocery bill every time I use a cloth bag. However, it is wrong for government to get involved with this.

  Lady: You are free to encourage people to use the kind of bags you think they should use; you are free to sell cloth bags to your heart's content; you are free to buy advertisements on TV and in newspapers; and whatever else you want to do for your cause. But you are wrong to do this at the point of a government gun.

• February 8, 2008

  9:45 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  blacksho89 writes:

  Hooray for Charlie Brown, the voice of reason in that asylum called City Council.
  Folks, I don't care HOW well it works in Ireland or Switzerland or San Francisco. There is a bumper sticker with the Colorado license plate as background saying, "We don't care HOW you did it back home!"

  And we don't.

• February 8, 2008

  9:51 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  jgd writes:

  Greenleaf,

  You have many good points, however, this fee is more about collecting a fee than protecting the environment. The politicians have come to the conclusion that a fee or taxes based on "protecting the environment", "reducing oil usage" or "for the children" has become a golden egg for them. This is the classic example of a slippery slope, and it is time to bring it to an end.

  Protecting the environment in less important then personal freedoms. I use grocery bags for many others tasks, garbage bags in my car, picking up after my dogs, taking my lunch to work, etc So then I would just have to buy different bags to do the same things. With that in mind how would it be helping the environment? I am still going to use plastic bags.

  On a footnote, do you ever wonder how many plastic bottles of water were sitting on the table during the discussion on how to decrease the use of plastic bags? Or Styrofoam cups full of coffee?

• February 8, 2008

  10:04 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Chal writes:

  jdg, you took the words out of my keyboard. I also use my plastic grocery bags for many other things, and re-use them until the handles fall apart.

  This is just another feel-good idea that is also able to generate some revenue for Denver. Bingo! They can hide behind, "it's good for the environment." What a bunch of nitwits. Look, Denver, it's your government in action.

• February 8, 2008

  10:22 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  Hager writes:

  I understand the argument for using the bags for other reasons, but one cannot refute the fact that not all of the bags are being used for these reasons. Simply ban plastic grocery bags and buy bags for your other needs so we don't have those 'urban tumbleweeds'? I know we in Colorado do not want to be told what to do by outsiders, however after living in Denmark and New Zealand and seeing their system of reusable bags and nice clean cities and country sides I can only be a proponent of banning these bag. Down with the tax idea but give a clean city a go.

• February 8, 2008

  10:35 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  junglegymco writes:

  As environmentally conscious as I try to be, this is a bad idea. Arguments of freedom of personal choice aside, this is yet another regressive tax that will hit hardest on the lower income bracket. If you have a family of 6 and are making $30,000 a year, every penny counts. This tax will simply add another $5 a month to that already struggling family. BAD IDEA.

  Encourage people to use the cloth bags, perhaps encourage the grocery stores offer a discount if people bring in their own plastic bags (like Safeway does for the cloth bags), but taxing people is NOT the answer for this concern.

• February 8, 2008

  10:37 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  rickg19611 writes:

  Here's the solution that will make EVERYONE happy......

  Charge a $100 per person tax on anyone who supports plastic bag bans or surcharges. The money raised can be used to purchase carbon offsets!

  Everyone will be happy!!!! The enviro-nuts will be happy because they're helping save the universe by paying money to a person that sells them a piece of paper (aka carbon offset receipt) that says they're saving the universe. The other 99% of America can go on using plastic bags without the hassles of being dictated to by a handful of enviro-nuts.

• February 8, 2008

  10:53 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  buffsblg writes:

  the choice of "paper or plastic" is not a clear one. Paper bags have a environmental impact as they require the harvesting of carbon cleaning trees, require more energy to produce and have more pollution in the manufacturing process. Essentially, this proposal might reduce pollution here while increasing in the areas where paper bags are produced. If you only care about local impact, deterring plastic bags might make sense, but globally it likely makes no difference. This is a feel good measure that oversimplifies a difficult question mainly for publicity.

• February 8, 2008

  11:05 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  irafto writes:

  Of course an award winning documentary would not be biased in their version of the facts. If it has been labelled "documenary" it must be 100% factual and true without leaving out the other side of the controversy.

  Where will the bag ladies get their bags? Will they have to walk the streets juggling all of their belongings? Will the transients on the corners now be flying signs saying "need 10 cents for a bag?"

  There used to be a 5 cent deposit on soda bottles. Maybe there should be a 50 cent deposit (inflation) on all soda cans to force people to recycle the aluminum.

• February 8, 2008

  11:05 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  mareksvatos writes:

  It always amazes me how many people hate being inconvenienced. People seem to think their impact on life is so small - they don't realize that when millions and millions of people think the same way it becomes a big problem. I am by no means a perfect person, but I try to do my part and every day I try to be better than I was yesterday. I have re-used grocery bags for years: lunch, trash, and now this story has inspired me to buy re-usable bags. Just hearing from all the foreign countries who have found a better way, I know its possible in the U.S. This idea may not be a perfect solution, but we're trying to be better.

• February 8, 2008

  11:13 a.m.

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  greenleaf writes:

  Hello again jgd!

  Once again, we are more in agreement than not ( please refer to the last line of my posting).

  As to your other points: We still get plastic bags from stores occasionally when we forget to bring cloth. We reuse them in the same way you describe. It definitely makes more sense than throwing them away or buying new bags to replace them. I, too, bet there were a BUNCH of plastic bottles and styrofoam cups on the table that night! They are another waste of materials and energy that are not in the scope of this forum. I do understand your point about the hypocrisy of such settings.

  I support the use of cloth bags for the reasons I stated before. I think they are a great concept. I believe in them totally. Do I think that YOU, jgd, should have to pay for a bag (that you are already paying for:>) )? Emphatically no! However, if the law passes, how about you and I start selling cloth bags? When the council passes laws regarding plastic bottles and styrofoam cups we can expand our product lines!

  Later buddy!

• February 8, 2008

  11:18 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  daslickman writes:

  For those families that are concerned with penny-pinching (I like to pinch them too), just buy four cloth bags, or bring a backpack, a cardboard box, a duffel bag, or something of the like. leave them in your car. You spend maybe four dollars on four cloth bags if you don't have them already, and you never need to buy them again. It would not hurt your bank account.

  The Europeans are ahead of us; the Irish already charge a whopping 33 cent tax per bag:
  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/02/wor...

• February 8, 2008

  11:20 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  ezekiel777 writes:

  another reason not to buy groceries....or really anything... in Denver.

  one word of advice: PAY ME TO RECYCLE!

• February 8, 2008

  11:25 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  jgd writes:

  mareksvatos,

  I have no problem with helping to clean the environment, however I am getting sick and tired of the government or some radical group of treehuggers constantly trying to find ways to take my money through some tax or fee. If you want to do things on your own or help educate people on new ideas, Great! But keep you hands out of my pockets, I have had enough!!!!

• February 8, 2008

  11:30 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  greenleaf writes:

  buffsbig,

  The choice isn't really between paper or plastic, but between those two products and cloth. When you analyse it paper is the biggest user of energy 594 BTU/bag vs. 2,511/for each paper bag. Production of paper bags also causes 70% more air pollution and 50% more water pollution than the production of plastic bags. Counter intuitive isn't it?

  Cloth, on the other hand, results in pollution as the cotton is grown, harvested , processed, transported and manufactured into bags. However, unlike plastic or paper bags which can be used a few times at most, cloth bags can be used for decades. I have about 10 bags that have been in constant use for OVER 10 years and they aren't showing any signs of wearing out.

  -And you are right : It DOES make me feel good!

• February 8, 2008

  11:30 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  daslickman writes:

  ezekiel777:

  I appreciate your advice, though your one word was actually four, but no need to get picky when there are real issues at stake.

  Why shouldn't you pay for your pollution of our Earth--pollution which damages animals' health, peoples' health, plants' health, and the beauty of our natural landscape? What if we dumped all the trash from Denver on the beautiful Rocky Mountain range that we're all blessed to see (when it's not smoggy)? What if we dumped it on your back yard? Paying you to recycle means taxing everybody. Why not just tax those who are causing the problem?

• February 8, 2008

  11:51 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  aeb1barfo writes:

  Don't CALIFORNICATE Colorado!

  Do you really want to expand the People's Republic of Boulder ( AKA Berzerkley East )to overlap Denver?

  The word that needs to be said is CHOICE. You already have the surcharges, THAT IS WHAT IS CALLED AN EXPENSE TO DO BUSINESS.

  People forget that things don't just magically happen..

• February 8, 2008

  11:57 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  JB writes:

  Ok-
  So I think plastic bags are not necessarily good, but like others here, I use mine over and over and over for random things in the house.

  Rather than assessing fees for using them, I think groceries and if they really NEED to get involved, the government -- ought to offer INCENTIVES to not use plastic!

• February 8, 2008

  12:09 p.m.

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  greenleaf writes:

  JB,

  I agree! The grocery stores DO offer a 5 cent/bag incentive which probably only cancels out what they charge us as a business expense for using their bags. That's a start!

• February 8, 2008

  12:17 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Brain writes:

  Yes, the Europeans are "ahead" of us on this slippery slope, maybe we will have the "Brains" not to continue to follow.

  I also use the bags for carrying my trash out to the garbage can and throw it away with my trash/garbage and to clean out my car; I guess it would be better to buy a garbage bag out of plastic (thicker more time before degrading) to throw my garbage out but I don't like spending my money on garbage bags (great incentive).

  Hart said less than 5 percent of shopping bags are recycled.

  Since October, more than 6.4 million plastic bags have been recycled, Greaser said. Keith Christman said "We know from studies that we've done that 92 percent of consumers report that they reuse their plastic bags.”
  Sounds like someone doesn’t have their “facts” correct.

  Again Denver is considering a fee/tax that is designed to manipulate behavior; this precedent was set a couple of decades ago (not sure what was first maybe tobacco) and continues; hard for me to understand why anyone is in favor of taxes/fees to manipulate behavior; in this case there are many posts that already use “cloth” bags and they do so partly or primarily because it saves them money in the long run; BetterBagsColorado could do plenty by just promoting the use of cloth bags.

  Selling cloth bags made out of? Think maybe polyester would be a good material?

  I agree with ezekiel777; just another reason why I will not buy anything within the Denver city limits if I can help it; I really would like to have seen Van Halen though, oh well.

• February 8, 2008

  1:26 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  vudumom writes:

  I went grocery shopping today. some of the plastic things I bought were,yogurt,frozen fries,grond turkey,frozen pizza,ice cream,cottage cheese,margerine,packages of meat,bread,hamburger rolls,shampoo,conditioner,cottonballs,ibuprophen,etc...The list can go on and on of what we buy that comes in plastic and is not recycled.None of the things listed above have I re-used.After putting my groceries away a collected all my plastic grocery bags and put them in a paper bag I keep under the sink so I can reuse them. We use them for all kinds of things.However all the things in the store that come in or are wrapped in plastic is okay to throw away in landfills?
  Denver thinks they are doing the enviroment a favor by charging people for something that alot of us recycle and not paying attention to the thousands of items that come on plastic and are not recycled.I can't find a use for the plastic yogurt container.It's not good to put trash in and it would be hard to use to clean up the dog doo.

  When is this insanity going to end?

• February 8, 2008

  1:37 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  daslickman writes:

  Why SHOULDN'T you pay for your pollution of our Earth--pollution which damages animals' health, peoples' health, plants' health, and the beauty of our natural landscape? What if we dumped all the trash from Denver on the beautiful Rocky Mountain range that we're all blessed to see (when it's not smoggy)? What if we dumped it on your back yard? Paying you to recycle means taxing everybody. Why not just tax those who are causing the problem?

  Furthermore, you ARE getting rewarded by recycling and you don't even realize it. You get rewarded with a healthier ecosystem, which makes you a healthier person and saves you money on health care. Recycling your bags also poses less of a threat to the animals and agriculture which live around or literally IN the landfill, which not only makes you a healthier person but also decreases the cost of your food. Not to mention the value of a landscape clear of plastic bags...

• February 8, 2008

  1:39 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  kc02 writes:

  JUST LIKE THE ABOVE POST -
  I think plastic grocery bags are so far down the list of things that are a threat to a good, healthy, clean environment. I recycle whenever possible, however I don't lose alot of sleep over the plastic bag.
  I re-use them as trash sacks in my bathrooms. If I didn't use them, I would be buying small trash sacks for my bathrooms. And the dog poop.
  So, what would be gained by taxing them or trying to elimate them? I still need a small plastic bag for things like that. All my bags get re-used, one way or the other. Stop the madness, people.

• February 8, 2008

  1:45 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Trythinking writes:

  Why are you shopping in a grocery store anyhow? To be totally at one with the universe, one should grow their own fruits and vegetables. Remember think globally and grow and eat locally. Eating meat is far too damaging to mother earth. Are you still using that toilet when you could be growing crops with you own waste. Sorry I need to go now, Moonbeam is crying.

• February 8, 2008

  1:45 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  greenleaf writes:

  vudumon,

  My belief is as follows: BECAUSE there are SO many things that we can't easily recycle today, it makes it that much more important to reduce/reuse/recycle what we CAN. By the way, empty bread bags and produce bags CAN be used to save you the expense of buying sandwich bags for your lunch. I use them all the time.

• February 8, 2008

  1:49 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  kc02 writes:

  BTW - All of you who want to emulate Europe, and think Europe is so far advanced: Their economies and societies are crumbling as a result of their forward, socialist, nannyist policies. They are not what we want to be like. So what is they tax a grocery bag at 33 cents! They tax EVERYTHING!! They're SOCIALISTS!! And their societies and economies are crumbling under the weight of taxation and social policies that cannot be sustained. It's a failed agenda.

• February 8, 2008

  1:50 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  greenleaf writes:

  Hydro_Man,

  That's clever - I appreciate your sense of humour! How does Moonbeam feel about this bag controversy?

• February 8, 2008

  2:20 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Trythinking writes:

  Moonbeam is not sure how this new tax or Ritter's proposed CO2 tax will square with TABOR. Moonbeam suggests a tax on stupid since we could balance the budget just from our elected officals.

• February 8, 2008

  2:30 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  greenleaf writes:

  Hydro_Man,

  We should all get behind a tax on "stupid"! We could get even more budget relief from ourselves: after all, we elected them! Go moonbeam!

• February 8, 2008

  2:32 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Trythinking writes:

  Moonbean is wise for her age.

• February 8, 2008

  2:33 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Grim_Reefer writes:

  I rely on those plastic bags to pick up my beagle's poop!!

• February 8, 2008

  2:54 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  T1anda writes:

  kc02 Ditto!!

• February 8, 2008

  3:37 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  my3pugs writes:

  I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe that the the fee would go to the government, only that a fee for the bag is charged. So this isn't a tax hike, the revenue doesn't go to the government. The grocers don't want this because they don't want to prove that they are collecting the fee. Banning the practice of free bags is a more traditionally government role if the government wants to reduce what ends up in the government landfill sites.

• February 8, 2008

  3:58 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Diff writes:

  I can't believe this generated 50+ posts!
  I know it is a slow news day, but good god people this is just plan old stupidity - at it's worst.
  .... Stupid is as Stupid does!
  Get a life, there are much more important things not only for the city council to take up, but everyone posting here today ...
  Me too!
  Out

• February 8, 2008

  4:12 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  greenleaf writes:

  Diff,

  The operative phrase is: ",,,Stupid is as Stupid does!" You need to ask yourself: "why did I count the number of posts?" ( I also bet you check back to see the response :>) ).

  As you said: "Get a life..."

  "Me too! "

  "Out"

• February 8, 2008

  5:02 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  whyidontliveindenver writes:

  OH MY GOD!!!!! WHERE DO THESE PEOPLE COME FROM????? THERE IS NOTHING WORSE THAN A ZEALOT. FOR PITY SAKES WHAT HOLE DID THIS WOMAN CRAWL OUT OF?

• February 8, 2008

  7:44 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  English_guru writes:

  That Pat Greaser is one intelligent guy!

• February 8, 2008

  7:46 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  jbowen43 writes:

  It's a good idea and it's way past time for it. Look at how well it's working in Ireland. China is doing something like this, too.

• February 8, 2008

  9:03 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  ham writes:

  China? Let's be environmental conscious like the Chinese? The Chinese don't give a rat's butt about plastic sacks! The put lead in kid's toys, for Pete's sake!
  Let's do this: Everybody put a dollar in a jar for every plastic bag you bring home from the grocery store. Every time you use a plastic bag for another purpose (like your dog's poop), you get to take a dollar out of the jar and spend it on yourself.
  At the end of the month, if there is any money in the jar, and any plastic bags you haven't reused, you can burn the money and flush the bags down the toilet! Or, burn the plastic bags and flush the money down the toilet! Your choice. Either way, it will accomplish just about as much as Deborah Hart of BetterBags Colorado.

• February 8, 2008

  11:38 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  BJG writes:

  How about if the supermarkets just quit giving us plastic bags, it would cost them more, but, hey they could just raise food prices like thay always do anyway.

• February 9, 2008

  8:18 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  jacwright writes:

  My initial reaction to this proposal is one of skepticism but before I fully decide I'd like to know -

  - What is the cost to administer the fee collection and who will do it?
  - Where do the collected fees go and how are they to be spent?
  - Since all other retails stores and grocery stores with sales under $2 million will likely still use plastic and/or paper bags, what percentage of the total bags citywide will this "bag tax" really serve to reduce?

  Whole Foods has opted to eliminate giving out bags without the imposition of a fee/tax. Although it may take longer via natural market (is this a pun?) forces to reduce the volume of giveaway bags, what's to say that wouldn't be more effective since it doesn't single out an industry and would include all stores regardless of an arbitrary sales volume.

  As I said, I'd like to see the answers to the above questions to help better frame this proposal.

• February 11, 2008

  4:13 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Todd writes:

  Plastic bags create pollution on the front end, and the back end. They are made from petroluem, and use chemicals and colorings when they are created.
  Then they are used for all of five minutes as consumers walk to the car. They get discarded shortly thereafter, and end up in our lakes, our streams and our environment forever. They never biodegrade and even if they did, our landfills are not the type of environment that promotes the breakdown of these materials.
  All this so you can carry your one, double-bagged item to the car?

  We need to be thinking more globally here, rather than just responding from your gut reaction. Everything we buy has to be made, using chemicals and packaging. All that packaging gets torn off and thown in the garbage within minutes of you arriving home. Where do you think that all goes?
  Do you want to live next to a landfill? I don't.