Lawmaker sorry about 'sluts'
Rocky Mountain News
Published February 7, 2008 at 12:30 a.m.
Updated February 7, 2008 at 8:01 p.m.
Photo by File photo
Representative Larry Liston, R-Colorado Springs, holds up the book the Iraq Study Group in this photo from the Rocky Mountain News' archives.
COLORADO SPRINGS — One month. Three embarrassments. Ninety days yet to go.
House Minority Leader Mike May said Thursday he felt like Kathleen Turner's character in the movie War of the Roses, who says in an exasperated moment, "What fresh hell is this?"
Indeed, May and House Speaker Andrew Romanoff have had more than their fair share of crises to deal with since opening day Jan. 9.
First, incoming Rep. Doug Bruce, R-Colorado Springs, kicked a Rocky photographer on the House floor and was censured for refusing to apologize.
Then Rep. Michael Garcia, D-Aurora, resigned after a female lobbyist accused him of sexual misconduct at a bar.
And on Wednesday, Rep. Larry Liston, R-Colorado Springs, called unmarried teen parents "sluts" at a Republican caucus.
The session, which ends in May, hasn't seen this kind of turmoil since the spring of 2006, when May was promoted to his current post after House Minority Leader Joe Stengel, R-Littleton, resigned from leadership over excessive per diem billing.
Sen. Deanna Hanna, D-Lakewood, was next, resigning after she wrote a letter to Realtors demanding "reparations" for their past financial support of her Republican opponent.
Soon after, Rep. Jim Welker, R-Loveland, was forced to apologize on the House floor for forwarding an essay by another author that called black Hurricane Katrina victims "immoral" and "welfare-pampered." When a congressional committee investigating the black market sale of phone numbers and other information focused on his Loveland firm, Welker decided against running for re-election.
May thought of the War of the Roses line then, and he was shaking his head with Turner's voice in his ear again Thursday as he read a newspaper article about Liston's comments.
Liston used the derogatory term during a Republican caucus lunch on health care to express his view that unmarried teen parents are sexually promiscuous and to complain that society condones premarital sex.
"In my parents' day and age, (unmarried teen parents) were sent away, they were shunned, they were called what they are," Liston said at the lunch. "There was at least a sense of shame.
"There's no sense of shame today. Society condones it ... I think it's wrong. They're sluts."
Liston apologized for his word choice Thursday afternoon.
"I'm definitely sorry that I ever used that word," he told the Rocky. "I had no intention of offending anybody. That was not my intent all — never was, never has been."
Romanoff, D-Denver, called the apology appropriate.
"Obviously I don't share his sentiments and I'm glad he took responsibility in the end," Romanoff said.
May said he too was glad to see Liston apologize. But he was irritated that Rep. Debbie Stafford, D-Aurora, had taped photocopies of a news article on Liston's "slut" comment at the back of the stalls inside the women's bathroom off the House floor Thursday morning.
May noted that Stafford, a former Republican, held her tongue publicly when Garcia resigned.
"It's the hypocrisy," May said. "Be offended, but don't be partisan offended."
Romanoff said he admonished Stafford as soon as he heard about her bathroom stunt.
"She apologized and took responsiblity and agreed not to do it again," Romanoff said.
"I'm going to get kicked out of the Democratic Party if I keep making trouble," Stafford said in a moment of levity Thursday afternoon.
However, she said she was not being partisan, but was truly offended by Liston's comments.
"It's not partisan," she said. "I just don't appreciate calling young people in pain a slut."
May took a self-effacing tack in regard to the most recent embarrassment.
"We're not professional politicians down here and it shows," he said. "We are citizen legislators. Sometimes we are going to do things that don't play well in prime time."
bargec@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5059
Rocky staffer Alan Gathright, the Associated Press and The Gazette contributed to this report.
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February 6, 2008
10:46 p.m.
Suggest removal
Oroboros writes:
Right, there was clearly no teen pregnancy a century ago because of the "shame".
BRING BACK THE SHAME!
It will solve all our problems. I bet if we bring back enough shame we can put the women and blacks back into their place too.
February 6, 2008
11:01 p.m.
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IanStIan writes:
I left Utah because of crap like this. Let's all shame young people for doing what comes natural. You religious nutjobs should shame your God for creating such an evil and sinful way to procreate.
Jeff Harris, Boise
February 6, 2008
11:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
kilkenny326 writes:
Didn't Jesus say, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?
And whatever happened to 'Judge not, lest ye be judged'?
Perhaps rather than 'shaming' kids, we should educate them...oh, I forgot, we can't teach sex education in schools or hand out condoms.....
This is just so much Bull.
February 6, 2008
11:35 p.m.
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pappy writes:
Please, give him a break. Everyone has the right to be stupid.
February 6, 2008
11:37 p.m.
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BJG writes:
Here are some bast--ds from history.
William the Conquerer
Pope Clement VII
Leonardo da Vinci (homo too)
Josephine Boneparte
Fredrick Douglass
Alexander Hamilton
Marilyn Monroe
This lawmaker is from Colorado Springs, isn't this what we expect from "them."
February 7, 2008
6:51 a.m.
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pegasus99_aka_DR writes:
How about this? You "holier-than-thou" Christians, and whoever else, try to live your life the best you can by following the teachings of your gods or saviors or whatever - and stop putting your hypocritical, judgmental, over-zealous BS onto the rest of the world. The only difference between the teens who cause and get pregnant, and you and me, is that circumstance and chance didn't happen to catch us when we were "fooling around" in our younger years. I swear, I don't know if I hate hypocrites, bigots, or politicians more.
February 7, 2008
6:59 a.m.
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jay045 writes:
Colorado Springs is sending us lots of quality legislators this year. Geesh.
February 7, 2008
7:06 a.m.
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GK writes:
Typical Republican
February 7, 2008
7:21 a.m.
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Oh_Wise_One writes:
lcdrjjxant- Way to get that racial dig "plantation" into the mix. Congrats. You are a one way street. Btw, that's 'by the way' for you, prove the Alito charge or stfu << decipher that yourself.
February 7, 2008
7:23 a.m.
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Oh_Wise_One writes:
I love how most of you 'tolerant' leftists cast all the republicans into the same kettle. Projection or your gay fantasy?
February 7, 2008
7:26 a.m.
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ColoNative writes:
Pegasus99 - so, people only have free speech if they agree with you? Hmmm. That seems somewhat hypocritical and judgmental on your behalf.
lcdrjjxant - the middle east is no plantation. And what does your Bush hating rant have to do with pregnant teens and the individuals who speak of the hurt lives which result from teen pregnancy?
February 7, 2008
7:33 a.m.
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andi38 writes:
If this guy is religious, then he obviously forgot all the parts about grace and love. After all, Jesus was friends with the prostitutes, tax collectors, etc... the 'sinners' (everyone) and therefore none of us have any right to boast. I'm a Christian and I do not view what this guy said as being Christ-like in any way... just cynical and hard - what comes when we forget our own junk.
It is sad that he is in a public office, I hope these girls do not read his comments and feel any worse and do anything stupid. Being a single mom is hard enough without the judgements. For those who are abusing the system - it takes creativity to solve the challenges faced. Some people just have no imagination.
There are more cutters, suicidal and hurt kids now then there has been - if we don't take care of our youth, our country has no future.
February 7, 2008
7:57 a.m.
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joeblow writes:
Just wondering....has a right-leaning, religious young man or woman ever been one of the principals in a pre-marital pregnancy? What? You say, 'yes'! Sluts!!!
Seriously, aren't the men and women we send to make our laws and govern our society a little wiser than to make stunningly perverse statements such as the one attributed to Rep. Liston?
I'm certain there are young people in his constituency who are sexually active or that there are young parents living there who've lived the life he's so foolishly condemned. Incidentally, that 'life' he so enthusiastically and foolishly condemns could also be his.
Representative Liston, temper your judgements and comments. Try to make our society one better for everyone. This is not Salem and this is not the 17th century!
February 7, 2008
8:11 a.m.
Suggest removal
TruthHurts writes:
Larry Liston is apparently running for Grand Pooh Bah of the American Taliban Party. Good luck Larry...we wish you well.
By the way Larry...given your penchant for the "good old days," how do you feel about a Woman and a Black running for the office of President of the United States? Is there no way to stop this progress?
The only good thing you did Larry was to give me hope, seeing some of the posts here that find you and your comments repulsive. How much time is left in your term?
February 7, 2008
8:16 a.m.
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Elrey writes:
Morals are not an absolute. Different people in different communities have different standards. The Supreme Court recognized this years ago when it wrestled with "what is profanity."
It's odd that you have conservatives who don't want to let one slice of the community marry, while others are condemmed even if they live an honest and loving family life without the benefit of the same sacrament. Personally, I think that it's inappropriate for legislators to get involved in the bedroom.
February 7, 2008
8:21 a.m.
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EastVail writes:
I'm a slut.
February 7, 2008
8:24 a.m.
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Lorren writes:
My daughter got pregnant at 16. She had a beautiful little girl who is talented, intelligent, and the light of my world - just like her mama is. My daughter finished high school, is attending college, raising her daughter, and working full time. I dare you, you slimy jerk, to come call her a slut to my face - I'll take you apart at the seams. The very nerve....Kilkenny, you rock.
February 7, 2008
8:38 a.m.
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kathyM writes:
Liston doesn't recall that the shotgun wedding was the preferred method of dealing with unplanned pregnancies. Many of us wouldn't be here otherwise!
February 7, 2008
8:44 a.m.
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an_artist writes:
idiots like this make conservatives and christians look really back-asswards. shut your pie hole!!! this guy does not speak for all of us. jerk.
February 7, 2008
8:47 a.m.
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Diff writes:
Now we have yet another MOUTH stepping up to take Tancredo's place and compete with Dougie Bruce to caring on the embarrassment of Colorado.
How profesional, how sensitive ...
HOW do these idiots get elected?
Liston - your another class A jerk, you should be ashamed!
February 7, 2008
8:48 a.m.
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Spencer writes:
I guess it our duty to make people feel ashamed. What a tool
February 7, 2008
8:57 a.m.
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TheVentilator writes:
The fact that the Republican party has kow-towed to these zealots the last 8 years is why they are probably going to crushed in November
February 7, 2008
9:03 a.m.
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T1anda writes:
Liston is a "lawmaker". Like the majority of lawmakers, he has the intelligence of a baked bean.
February 7, 2008
9:13 a.m.
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GeeTee writes:
I've heard that Liston wears women's underwear and plays with dolls.
February 7, 2008
9:15 a.m.
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buffsblg writes:
No one on here thinks that teen pregnancy is generally a good idea. Indeed, the intent of the luncheon was to work on ways to reduce the rate. Unfortunately, this moron (no other word is as appropriate) thinks the best way to solve a real problem is to call names and recall the good old days when girls were sent away in shame and babies sent to orphanages. Pompous jerk.
February 7, 2008
9:15 a.m.
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GeeTee writes:
The best method of abstinence is for kids to keep their damn pants on!
February 7, 2008
9:17 a.m.
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Theoldguy writes:
Sasquatch
And next to the SCARLET LETTER shall be posted the HOURLY RATE!
February 7, 2008
9:23 a.m.
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eddieb12002 writes:
Really folks there are some very stupid people representing El Paso County . Liston just happens to be one of them.
February 7, 2008
9:30 a.m.
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Theoldguy writes:
How about a "spay and neuter" program. The untrained and uneducated usually work at fast food places while others may climb out of this shameful past and become .......law makers.
This is the nuttiest blog to date.
February 7, 2008
9:36 a.m.
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pegasus99_aka_DR writes:
ColoNative -
So, that's what you got from my post? Since you don't seem to understand, I'll get into the nuts and bolts of it for you: everyone is entitled to their opinion - you, me, Liston. And if someone wants to stand up and spout off their opinion, they are free to do so. But, they are not necessarily free from the repercussions of doing so. You can refer to any number of public and private figures who have voiced their opinion, and suffered castigation for it - think Don Imus, Rush, Rosie, Jessie, and many others - they say what they want and then suffer the slings and arrows. Liston wakes up one day and decides that he and his religious outlook are important enough to tell the rest of society how things ought to be. I'd be willing to bet good money that he was not "perfect" in his youth, and only luck kept him, me, you, and about 100 million others of being in the very group he lashes out at. Just the kind of narrow-minded, pontificating, hypocritical, my way or the highway putz we all need as a "leader". If he really wanted to do something to reduce teen pregnancy, he would consider how parents might be freed up from working 60 hours a week so they could spend more time with their families and have a greater influence in their kids lives. He might think about how sex education classes could be incorporated into a combined school/family/church scenario that would serve the interests of all involved (the Mormons do this VERY well). He might also use his upbringing and beliefs to understand human nature and frailty, and think about how his comments might have hurt many people, perhaps some who even know and admire him.
February 7, 2008
9:41 a.m.
Suggest removal
joeblow writes:
Pulitizer in Pajamas,
I just hope you share in this forum those things for which you feel shame. Or, are you going to force people to call your 900 number at 99-cents a minute?
Honestly, though, you do have a point about shame. I, for example, am overcome with shame when I hear someone like you prosyletizing about morality!!!
February 7, 2008
9:44 a.m.
Suggest removal
vixen6 writes:
killkenny is right, instead of shaming teens, why can't we just teach them better?
bring back sex ed.
and hand out condoms.
oh and there's nothing wrong with premarital sex. get over it. teenagers are going to do it. and how many of you can say that you didn't have sex before you were married.
and let's not draw the race or gender cards here. that is completely irrelevant.
February 7, 2008
9:46 a.m.
Suggest removal
avengerscap writes:
I'm a middle-aged Gen X daughter of baby boomers (who should all be renamed Generation It's All About Me!). I never could have imagined feeling differently when I was younger, but extra- and premarital sex really does lead directly to an enormous range of sad, pricey problems, including the devaluation of the world's most sacred, stabilizing institution (marriage--which is only ever between a man and a woman), personal responsibility, and children growing up in poverty. FDR never intended welfare to go on forever. You take away that big cushy net at the bottom and people will be a heck of a lot more careful walking those tightropes.
February 7, 2008
9:51 a.m.
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T1anda writes:
Excellent post pegasus99!!
February 7, 2008
9:52 a.m.
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eap4p1 writes:
I think you all are forgetting the point and bringing politics into the equation. BOTH Rep's and Dem's have issues, but this issue is about kids having kids. I have no problem with people having sex, but I do have a problem with my tax $$$'s supporting them. We need to educate the kids about safe sex.
February 7, 2008
9:58 a.m.
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Firenewt writes:
I think the definition of a "slut" is one who is promiscuous. So someone who has sex with multiple partners is by definition a slut. Sometimes "whore" is used interchangably with "slut," but technically a whore gets paid, and a slut is just an "easy lay."
The American cultural norm today favors promiscuity, or "slutty" behavior --with no shame whatsoever. Apparently some folks commenting here think that is a good thing.
I think that treating pre-marital sex as an acceptable recreational activity is a very bad thing. It is self-destructive, and corrodes our society as a whole. Treating one's body as an open amusement park is a very unhealthy idea.
In my view, promiscuity IS shameful. People who respect themselves and others choose not to be promiscuous. People who are selfish or emotionally/mentally unhealthy tend to put out the "come and get it" sign.
The problem, as I see it, isn't teenage pregnancy, --it's teenage sex, (and the immoral culture that encourages it).
Liston was clearly frustrated at the missing morals in our society today. He is accurate it pointing to slutty behavior as the problem behind teen pregnancies. I too have been shocked at the complete lack of respect for one's self and others displayed in today's rampant teen promiscuity, and the absence of any sense of shame for this irresponsible behavior.
February 7, 2008
10:15 a.m.
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Firenewt writes:
Averngerscap makes an excellent point in saying, "extra- and premarital sex really does lead directly to an enormous range of sad, pricey problems..."
Humans' higher brain functions don't kick in until we're in our early 20's. Teenagers simply cannot think logically about the consequences of their decision to have sex.
Society in general, and parents specifically need to protect teenagers from themselves by doing whatever they can to prevent teenage sex.
Traditionally, the "don't have sex before marriage because God forbids it" approach worked very well. Since the "God is dead" and 60's sexual revolution, pre-marital (and extra-marital) sex has skyrocketed --and naturally, so have out-of-wedlock births, regardless of the number of condoms handed out at school.
The fact is that "safe sex" education just isn't working. If anything, it sends the message that pre-marital sex is OK as long as you use a condom. But the kid's don't --because they are not old enough to be able to think critically. Hence, the ever increasing numbers of abortions, which are tremendously destructive to young women physically and psychologically.
Abortion as a birth control method is self-destructive. Sex ed isn't working. What's left? Abstinence. If faith in God helps kids abstain from sex until marriage, that's great! Let's use that!
February 7, 2008
10:16 a.m.
Suggest removal
bookwerm writes:
Seriously, this dude is quite quite deranged. I hope he is recalled/impeached ASAP, or at least Censured. This is a lot worse than kicking a Photographer, you pathetic sack of idiocy.
Yes, we can agree that Teen Pregnancy is not wise, and should be avoided.
But when the LIEpublicans (not real repubs due to high deficit and high stupidity) force ABSTINENCE ONLY programs down our throats (proven to NOT work), END sex ed in Schools, END effective counseling to AVOID teen pregnancy, END monies related to HELPING educate, well, they are pretty stupid huh?
Dems at least EDUCATE to avoid, they don't bury their heads in their anuses thinking things like SHAME will work (which it won't).
February 7, 2008
10:22 a.m.
Suggest removal
pegasus99_aka_DR writes:
According to www.urbandictionary.com, one of the many, colorful definitions of a slut is:
*** begin copy ***
A derogatory term.
Refers to a sexually promiscuous person, usually female.
One who engages in sexual activity with a large number of persons, occasionally simultaneously.
Also refers to one who engages in sexual activity outside of a long-term relationship within the duration of said relationship.
*** end of copy ***
As we all know, it only takes once. That doesn't connote promiscuous behavior. It connotes being human.
So, FireNewt, my suggestion to you and others who think (I'm laughing) that pre-marital sex is destructive - then DON'T DO IT. But you and others have no right to tell everyone else how to live. You don't want to pay for others activities? Me either. So get that legislation passed. If Liston wants to be frustrated about something, perhaps he should jump into doing something about our brave service people dying in an illegal and unnecessary war? (I won't even mention how that war is bankrupting the country) How about stopping meth manufacturers? What about stemming the flood of illegals? Helping the elderly and infirmed obtain medical care? Feeding hungry American children who go to bed with empty bellies? Assisting the homeless of our state obtain job training, housing, food, and guidance? Solutions for rising college costs? Creative fixes for an ailing economy and crumbling stock market and currency? Restoring the shrinking middle class - the soul of American life? Global warming fixes? What about green, renewable energy? Increasingly polluted water supplies? Foods poisoned with dioxins, mercury, lead, and PCB's? How about the shrinking supplies of seafood, plankton, and the rain forests, or the dying bee populations?
Nope. He picks our youth to call sluts because a small percentage of them get pregnant. Obviously a clear threat to our very existance.
February 7, 2008
10:23 a.m.
Suggest removal
mytwosense writes:
I can just imagine some pregnant teenager getting an abortion after reading this story, for fear she'll be branded a "slut" when her secret gets out. Way to go, Liston. Is that what you want to bring back???
February 7, 2008
10:24 a.m.
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Firenewt writes:
My uncle is in charge of the public health system in Virginia. He has instituted a "Marriage Before the Carriage" program there, which encourages and rewards kids for waiting until marriage to be sexually active. It's working.
February 7, 2008
10:26 a.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
I'm with Liston. I prefer dating harlots, floozies, hos, fallen women, nymphomaniacs, sex addicts, horn dogs, over-sexed Bible-beaters, and tramps. Sluts are way too slutty for me.
February 7, 2008
10:27 a.m.
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Firenewt writes:
There's nothing wrong with people facing the consequences of their choices. Quite the contrary.
If you steal from someone you're a thief.
If you have sex with multiple partners you're a slut.
If someone doesn't like being a thief or a slut, they can change their course, choose to behave differently.
February 7, 2008
10:33 a.m.
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Firenewt writes:
Pegasus, you list worthy causes.
Since Liston was at a meeting that dealt exclusively with the problem of teenage pregnancy, he focused on that, rather than (inappropriately) including the many other noble causes you mention.
Getting pregnant as a kid in high school is a very scary thing, with heavy long-term consequences, regardless of the path chosen to address it. Let's not ignore that.
The problem Liston was addressing, is how do we protect kids from severely complicating their lives with unwanted pregnancies?
I think that is also a noble cause.
February 7, 2008
10:34 a.m.
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rushrulesbaby writes:
Liston is right on! We need more men and women to act like 'men' and 'women' and say it like it is instead of sugar coating the truth. Stella should back her fellow republican instead of condemning him. We have too many touchy feely people out there telling them 'its okay sugar', 'you don't have to worry bumpkins', 'everybody's doing it'. Good Grief!!!
February 7, 2008
10:43 a.m.
Suggest removal
Firenewt writes:
Should Liston have chosen his words more carefully? Probably.
Did he acurately point out that promiscuous behavior is the root cause of unwanted pregnancies? Absolutely.
So how do we fix the root problem? That's the issue.
Some have advocated for NOT fixing the root problem (pre-marital sex). Instead they prefer a "fix the symptoms" approach -sex ed and free condoms. That might be OK if it worked. It doesn't.
So rather than getting an attitude, why not focus on finding a solution to the root problem --pre-marital sex.
Find ways to encourage kids not to engage in sex before marriage --that's the most effective way to protect them from both unwanted pregnancies and STDs. HPV is rampant, and condoms can't prevent it! Let's protect our kids from that!
February 7, 2008
10:47 a.m.
Suggest removal
pegasus99_aka_DR writes:
Firenewt -
I would agree with your statements that getting pregnant in high school is a scary thing. I agree it's a noble cause to want to do something to reduce it. I'm delighted he was at a conference on what to do about it.
And as I mentioned once before, as we all know, it only takes once. Liston conveys the notion that all kids are running around jumping into bed with each other because of a rather small percentage of unplanned pregnancy - and that is sheer over-reaction and perhaps even deception.
I know hundreds of kids with good value systems, great morals and ethics, and who act responsibly - three of them being my own. And they are how they are because their parents sacrificed that "second income" that would have made their financial road far easier, to have someone be with the kids the majority of the time, and to pass on the values the kids now have. Not everyone can do this nowadays.
I suppose I just find it disingenuous and irrelevant on Liston's part, for him to blast youth as "sluts" - what will he say if one of his kids comes home with the news one day? And, exactly how does labeling teens as immoral, sex-craved sluts, improve the situation? Perhaps you are right and his outburst was a moment of passion and angst, harbored in the frustration of knowing there really isn't much he can do about it? Just a thought.
February 7, 2008
11:03 a.m.
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hmmm writes:
Firenewt - studies have shown abstinence only programs don't work. See http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,3... for just one of many.
Funny, the definitions of slut all appear to involve multiple partners. Since most teenagers "do it" with their boyfriend/girlfriend, I guess that leaves them out of the defined pool. Ignorant of the consequences of unprotected sex, perhaps, but not sluts. Providing accurate, unbiased information about sex and its consequences (STD's, unplanned pregnancies), is a worthwhile endeavor of the legislature, and would get results. But morality cannot be legislated so legislators should avoid all attempts to cast "shame" on others.
BTW, sluts usually connote females. Rarely is a male called a slut. Gigolo, perhaps, but that still doesn't have the same connotation that slut does.
February 7, 2008
11:03 a.m.
Suggest removal
Firenewt writes:
Pegasus, good for you for taking the raising of your children seriously enough to forego an income. Not many do that today.
Yes, it just takes once -to get pregnant or to get HPV or some other nasty STD. And "slipping up" or "going too far" once (or twice) doesn't make a kid a slut. We're human, teenagers generally crave sex (I did), and without some incentive not to be promiscuous, most kids will go in that direction. And they put themselves at risk for a host of ills if they do.
I think the over-arching problem is the popular culture that makes teen sex attractive, acceptable, and a measure of one's personal "hotness."
While I'm not opposed to providing birth control for kids who are at risk, I think that is a band-aid/symptom approach.
To solve the problems of teen pregancies and STDs, I think we must turn around popular culture. That is a huge undertaking, and frankly, I don't see it happening. The entertainment media that fuels it is too powerful and hedonistic.
So that leaves us with helping our kids learn how to recognize the "toxic," destructive culture in which we live, and teaching them how to out-smart it.
February 7, 2008
11:06 a.m.
Suggest removal
Shaupeen writes:
OK. Start the clock. The countdown begins until this guy's kid gets pregnant. When will these zealots from the Springs realize the louder they shout, the farther they have to fall?
Hypocrites are so fun to watch. Once you learn to tolerate them, that is.
February 7, 2008
11:10 a.m.
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Firenewt writes:
Is it hypocritical to want to help your kids avoid the trauma that comes with teen pregnancy and/or STDs?
February 7, 2008
11:15 a.m.
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me2 writes:
Since Mother Nature wants us to mate early, often and with many partners in order to have a healthy gene pool, and She saw fit to give youngsters every physical prodding to do just that, how do we then blame the kids?
We are all the product of pregnancies, years ago, from very young girls. That is life and human nature.
Young moms have trouble because of the culture they are in. Where moms are appreciated no matter the age, they are part of the culture and not shamed out of it. Our young go on welfare when they do not have a way to make a living, and we are trying to keep them in school. Society has changed from nomadic, to pastoral, to agriculture and technology but the human body, with all its needs is still the same.
Shame over sex is not the same as taking responsibility for a baby.
February 7, 2008
11:18 a.m.
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pegasus99_aka_DR writes:
Firenewt said, "That is a huge undertaking, and frankly, I don't see it happening. The entertainment media that fuels it is too powerful and hedonistic."
Roger that.
February 7, 2008
11:38 a.m.
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Firenewt writes:
Dear me2 --I don't think it is about "blaming the kids." I think it is about helping the kids.
Humans are wired to procreate long before we're able to really think.
I see one of the responsibilities of society, communities, and parents as creating a social structure that protects our kids from themselves when they are hormone-pumping teenagers, just as we do when they are five and want to run out into the street after their ball.
Once upon a time we had a social structure that was supportive of sexual abstinence before marriage. It didn't always work, of course, but most of the time it did.
Now we have a social structure that expects youngsters to have pre-marital sex. So they do. And they get nasty STD, get pregnant with children they have no way of caring for, and have difficulty developing deep, committed, husband-wife partnerships as a result.
In my view, our society has failed our kids. Now we're just doing damage control on the consequences.
February 7, 2008
11:38 a.m.
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jxkelle writes:
I'm so glad this guy's name is published so I can make sure never to vote for him in any capacity - How DARE he!
February 7, 2008
11:53 a.m.
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buffsblg writes:
firenewt
This issue here is that using derogatory names is not a solution to a real problem.
Certainly abstinence is one option, but the science tells us that teaching it as the only option (the Republican policy) fails miserably. Abstinence needs to be one part of a considered program that also allows for contraception and education as to the consequences of pregnancy.
As to issue of "shame", I have practiced child protection law for 18 years and handled hundreds of cases of teen moms. They are almost universally ashamed as well as scared and confused. They have been subjected to verbal abuse by their peers and parents and even by those in positions of authority. Most love their babies and want to do what is best for them, but have no idea what that is. To sit in court and watch a 13 year old sobbing as the court terminates her parental rights is one of the most heart wrenching moments you can imagine.
What is most offensive about what Liston said is that it is based upon this urban legend about girls who just have kids with no thought or consequence. Those girls may exist, but my experience (which I would submit is vastly greater than Liston's) is that those girls are the tiny minority. Liston needs to get some real world experience before he decides that the best way to move this issue is to insult people he has never met.
February 7, 2008
11:54 a.m.
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ruckus writes:
Next on Maury Povich, Who is the father of Katarina Liston's new born? Her dad will be commenting via satellite, "no shame, no gain, lil slut".
February 7, 2008
noon
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notbeinfringed writes:
So wait a second the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to elected officials?
February 7, 2008
12:10 p.m.
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Diff writes:
Can't believe using a debate regarding the definition of "slut" as some how a justification or excuse for Liston's use of the term as he did. (not unlike "is" ..?)
There is a problem here to discuss and to maybe even offer some methods to help solve it. However I am not sure I want the state that involved in the personal and private lives of memebers of our society. It is a problem of our culture and frankly the state needs to keep it's nose out of it!
I would expect a much higher standard of someone speaking as a member of the state legislature. Just another one of the many who have to build them self's up by tearing others down!
Liston owes the state of Colorado an apology!
February 7, 2008
12:19 p.m.
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Firenewt writes:
America wants what it cannot have --hedonism without consequences.
The consequences of Godless hedonism include sorrow, suffering, unwanted pregnancies and rampant STDs.
Liston was recalling a time when America was far less hedonistic, had a stronger sense of individual responsibility, and at least knew where "North" was on the moral compass.
He has a right to say it as he sees it.
I think his anger is mis-directed though. Yes, "slutty" behavior is common among teenagers these days, but I don't see that as the root of the problem. Teenagers will do whatever the entertainment media models for them --unless the values of their family, church, and community are stronger than the popular culture. Often they are not. Hence, the 13 year old girls sobbing in the court room.
Rather than being angry at Liston for using the term "sluts," why not be angry at the popular culture that has corrupted the morals of our country and placed our teenagers at risk?
February 7, 2008
12:20 p.m.
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Sean writes:
How about we force those pregnant teen to wear a scarlet "S" (for Slut) on their chests. That would shame them.
This guy, like the party he belongs to, is a joke.
So what is his solution to teen pregnancy? Is it abstinence only education that has been proven not to work. Maybe we need more purity balls, which is actually creepy.
Fear not though, the Republicans are becoming more irrelevant by the day and their influence is waning. This is the only way that they can bring attention to themselves.
February 7, 2008
12:30 p.m.
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anya writes:
Well, at least our hyper-religious far-right wing neo-con Republican nut cases are all bunched together in El Paso County these days. Well, and Jeffco, and the State Legislature, and the Secretary of State's Office, and...oh, never mind.
February 7, 2008
12:32 p.m.
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ruckus writes:
I for one resemble, err...I mean resent that slutty remark!
February 7, 2008
12:33 p.m.
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O_TRAIN writes:
interesting posts...I would agree with Bookwerm, Vixen6, Killkenny & buffsblg - the answer is EDUCATION. Teenagers have had sex in the past and will keep having sex in the future. They should be educated on the consequences of having sex. I would disagree with the post that says teenagers are too immature to make a good decision - just an excuse to not provide education or to support "shame" or abstinence methods. The egg & the sperm don't ask "are these folks married" - kids need education, not denial or shame.
When I left the Springs years ago, my thoughts were - you Focus on your own family & I'll focus on mine.
February 7, 2008
12:36 p.m.
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kemguru writes:
So what would we call a person that has married and divorced multiple times? Multiple kids from multiple partners (more than one)?
It's okay as long as one gets married? Even if more than half of today's marriages end in divorce?
Is Mary (the Virgin) a slut?
I think making kids feel even more guilt about their situation could cause an increase in abortions. A bit counterproductive to the bases' belief, no?
Great post, buffsblg!
February 7, 2008
12:36 p.m.
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Firenewt writes:
I don't see any pro-abstinence people here bashing the liberals.
Why is it that the liberals seem to need to be ugly about issues on which we disagree?
Why can't we simply discuss issues with a mutually respectful tone?
We have a problem -teen pregnancies and STDs. We're all trying to find a way to fix it. Why not consider that the other half of the country might have something worthwhile to bring to the table?
The angry attitude that leftists bring to the discussion does not help them --it just makes them look like nasty bigots.
February 7, 2008
12:44 p.m.
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DenverTea writes:
Federally Funded sex education programs for teens are not allowed to even talk about condoms, despite the fact that promoting condom use helps lower the rate of teen pregnancy and STD's
by an estimated 80% - some teens will have premarital sex, which I personally think is a good and healthy and natural activity; why not give them easy to afford and use tools? The ones who should be ashamed are those who work to keep teens in the dark about sexuality and protection.
February 7, 2008
1:14 p.m.
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pegasus99_aka_DR writes:
Okay Charles_B - now you've gone and done it :)
February 7, 2008
1:32 p.m.
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Shaktisboy writes:
"Once upon a time we had a social structure that was supportive of sexual abstinence before marriage. It didn't always work, of course, but most of the time it did."
Once upon a time (and not that long ago), a 16 year old girl had completed schooling (if they were lucky enough to go) and was considered an adult woman ready for marriage. A 20 year old woman was practically an old maid. Abstinence until marriage probably did work because these girls were married in their teens, often to older men who would support them. Today, young women are encouraged to go to college and start a career before marriage. Do you expect a college age or older woman (or man!) to abstain from sex until they are married? If they do not, are they sluts - or is that only applied to teenagers? Or is it only when they accidentally get pregnant are they considered sluts?
February 7, 2008
1:34 p.m.
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POHA writes:
Fascinating.
Obviously marriage is NOT a pre-requisite to procreation. Nor should it be. Divorce is easy. Committing yourself to a child is not.
Perhaps educating our pre-teens about taking responsibility for their actions would be a better plan.
Car seats (infant/toddler/booster): $$
Bottles: $$
Pacifiers: $$
Blankets: $$
Crib: $$
Other one time baby stuff (monitors, swing, stroller, toys, etc): $$
Diapers per month: $$
Formula per month: $$
Childcare per month: $$
Baby food per month: $$
Electricity per month: $$
Gas to get you to work per month: $$
Food for yourself per month: $$
Doctor's visits (with or without health insurance) per month: $$
Other bills (phone, cable, trash, etc) per month: $$
And this just for your first few years...
If you can't afford to support a baby, then don't have sex. If you can, then go for it.
February 7, 2008
1:39 p.m.
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smith writes:
What's wrong with calling them what they are?
I wouldn't have any problem with their behavior, if they didnt turn around to the state to raise and pay for their kids. Since they abdicate that responsibility, it is entirely appropriate to have this discussion in the legislature
February 7, 2008
1:41 p.m.
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Firenewt writes:
Hi CharlesB, to answer your question, my personal view is that promiscuous sex does two things:
1) It cheapens intimacy. Actually, it makes real intimacy impossible. It cheapens the human bond, and makes sex just animanl sex rather than an intimate experience that brings a husband and wife closer together. Pornography is destructive for the same reasons. Both promiscuity and pornography are destructive to the family and society because of the damage they do to the stability created by deep personal intimacy.
2) I believe in the God of the Bible. He has forbidden sex outside of marriage. When one mocks God by deliberately disobeying His commandments, he/she separates himself from God and makes himself ineligible for the companionship of the Holy Spirit. For me personally, I love God and so want to keep his commandments. I also enjoy the companionship of the Holy Spirit, and don't want to lose that, so I honor God and invite the Spirit into my life by keeping the Lord's commandments.
So far in this discussion I've not mentioned the "God factor" because that is a very personal thing, and I think we need to focus on finding solutions that actually work, that we can all agree on implementing. Since faith is not a universal experience, I would rather focus on solutions we can universally accept and support.
February 7, 2008
1:44 p.m.
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Theoldguy writes:
Birth Problems Linked to Teenage Fathers
By Steven Reinberg
HealthDay Reporter
THURSDAY, Feb. 7 (HealthDay News) -- In a finding that seems to turn conventional wisdom on its head, researchers report that babies of teenage fathers are more likely to be born with health problems than babies born to men over 40.
"We found that being a teenage father was associated with an increased risk of adverse pregnancy outcomes, including preterm birth, low birth weight and neonatal deaths," said Dr. Shi Wu Wen, an associate professor at the University of Ottawa Department of Epidemiology & Community Medicine.
In the study, Wen's team used data from the National Center for Health Statistics to collect information on 2,614,966 births in the United States between 1995 and 2000. To isolate the effects of the teen fathers' age on the outcome of pregnancy, the researchers compensated for the mother's contribution by choosing women 20 to 29 years old.
Women in this age group are less likely to be affected by fertility problems, which can have an effect on birth outcomes, Wen noted. "We also excluded infants with birth defects," he said. "This may explain why we didn't see adverse effects amongst older fathers."
The researchers found that babies born to teenage fathers had a 15 percent increased risk of premature birth, a 13 percent increased risk for low birth weight, and a 17 percent increased risk for being small for gestational age.
These babies also had a 22 percent increased risk of dying within the first month after birth, and a 41 percent increased risk of dying in the first four weeks to one year after birth, although the absolute risk was small -- less than 0.5 percent, the researchers said.
Babies of fathers 40 and older did not experience the same risks, Wen said.
"The public has paid attention to teenage pregnancy, but mostly to teenage mothers," Wen said. "But here we show that teenage fathers are also at high risk. The public and health agencies should pay attention to teenage fathers."
The findings are reported in the February issue of Human Reproduction.
February 7, 2008
1:44 p.m.
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Firenewt writes:
POHA, I like your approach. I think kids generally do not directly associate sex with babies, or the realities of raising a child. Even if they did, it's all dreams and drama in teenage land. But showing them the numbers might help --or it might just add to the drama.
February 7, 2008
1:44 p.m.
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Theoldguy writes:
Wen said it's not clear why infants of teenage fathers are at greater risk for health problems. However, he suspects that social factors such as income and lifestyle play a role.
"Young fathers have less stable employment," Wen said. "In addition, teenagers are at risk for more risky behavior like smoking and alcohol and drug use. These are known to be associated with adverse pregnancy outcomes.
"Teenage fathers may also be emotionally less stable," he added. "We know that stress is a risk factor for adverse pregnancy outcomes as well."
One expert agrees that more attention should be paid to teenage fathers and their contribution to the health of their children.
"Paternal age is an ignored and understudied and underestimated contributor to neonatal outcomes," said Dr. F. Sessions Cole, director of newborn medicine and head of the neonatal intensive care unit at St. Louis Children's Hospital. "It's 50 percent egg and 50 percent sperm that form the baby, and 100 percent of the blame is attributed to mothers," he said.
"The risk-taking behaviors of adolescent males probably are a significant part of the reason why their sperm are associated with more adverse neonatal outcomes," Cole said. "These risk-taking behaviors impact sperm in ways we don't know."
Cole believes teenage fathers, like teenage mothers, should receive prenatal counseling. "That way, a prospective father can get some sense of what he can do to optimize the outcome," he said.
February 7, 2008
1:55 p.m.
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Firenewt writes:
Shaktisboy, yes, I expect anyone who is not married to abstain from sex, IF that person is a Christian. Obviously people who are not Christians are not accountable to God for obeying His laws on the subject. Muslims are accountable to Allah, of course, and are expected to abstain from pre-marital sex as well.
A person is considered promiscuous (or "slutty") if he or she has sex with multiple partners, regardless of his or her age. Getting pregnant has nothing to do with it.
In my view, there should be no stigma attached to a young woman getting pregnant. Getting pregnant isn't the sin --having sex outside marriage is. And of course, the out-of-wedlock child should have no stigma at all attached to him or her. So in Christian moral terms, pregnancy and the child that results isn't the problem or source of shame. Having pre-marital sex (whether or not a pregancy results) is the shameful behavior.
February 7, 2008
2:04 p.m.
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pegasus99_aka_DR writes:
Question for you Firenewt -
The location and text of the Scripture that forbids pre-marital sex please. And I don't mean some obscure, made-up, twisted, half-glop Christian-taught creation that pastors, fathers, ministers, etc., that I have talked to over many, many years have come up with.
February 7, 2008
2:10 p.m.
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buffsblg writes:
firenewt
This article is about a right wing Republican whose solution to teen pregnancy is to call them "sluts" and you get on here and lecture liberals about name calling! The hypocrisy of that remark is stunning. If you have even once listened to Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh you have lost the right to ever complain about name calling in political discussion. At least the name calling on here is toward people who have chosen to participate. Liston (and by the way many of his supporters on this board) uses name calling against KIDS who have made mistakes. Disgusting.
February 7, 2008
2:13 p.m.
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Diff writes:
At least he had the guts to stand up and offer an apology!
Bruce - are you listening?
February 7, 2008
2:25 p.m.
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Firenewt writes:
Pegasus, here are a few references:
Acts 15:20 abstain from fornication...
Acts 21:25 keep themselves from fornication...
1 Cor. 5:9 I wrote unto you...not to company with fornicators...
1 Cor 6:9 inherit the kingdom...neither fornicators...
1 Cor 6:13 body is not for fornication...
1 Cor 7:2 to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife
1 Cor 10:8 neither let us commit fornication
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest...adultery, fornication...
Eph 5:3 But fornication and all uncleanness...let it not be once named among you as becometh saints
Col 3:5 ...fornication, uncleanness...
1 Thess 4:3 For this is the will of God...abstain from fornication
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah...giving themselves over to fornication and going after strange flesh
Rev 14:8 ...drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication
Rev 17:2 with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication...
Rev 19:2 the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication...
{in the OT it's usually refered to as "whoredoms"}
February 7, 2008
2:30 p.m.
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Firenewt writes:
Charles B, I'd love to respond to your question but I don't have time rightnow. Have to go to work.
I'd ask though, when someone is finally making love to his/her true love, will it help their sense of intimacy and "us-ness" to have the face and body parts of previous lovers coming to mind?
Intimacy is so much more than just sex. By making what could be love-making into just sex, (focusing on just the physical aspect), intimacy is destroyed.
Gotta go.
February 7, 2008
2:48 p.m.
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Spencer writes:
smith says "What's wrong with calling them what they are?" So is it OK to call you a douchebag?
February 7, 2008
2:52 p.m.
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pegasus99_aka_DR writes:
Firenewt -
Not really interested in the NT references - let's consider more from the OT, specifically anything from the couples we know of, such as Adam and Eve, Abraham and Sara, Noah and the Mrs., for example. In my studies I found that none of those couples were joined in a civil ceremony(that we know of), but rather that they committed to one another.
Don't get me wrong, I believe in marriage (been so for almost 30 years), but it is primarily a state-sanctioned institution in its present form - very akin to a business relationship with the State. What the Almighty expects from us (in my opinion) is to treat each other right, not act like animals, and enter into a monogamous relationship, and to stay that way if possible (from Scripture, "God hates divorce" and "Abandon not the wife of your youth").
BTW, the Jude reference bears more pertinence to homosexuality and orgies, than anything else. Also, understand that the word "fornication" as used in the NT, can be synonymous with up to 14 other meanings - abandonment, homosexuality, adultery, bestiality, idolatry, deceitfulness, and others among them.
February 7, 2008
2:56 p.m.
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UdontNoJackie writes:
Looks like political suicide if you ask me, insulting and alienating an entire generation because our actions, attitudes & beliefs do not parallel his own.
What this dimwit fails to realize, is we hold all the cards to the future. We get to pick his retirement home (providing someone doesn't end his life early), we are the ones who will be pushing his wheelchair, preparing his meals and bringing him his life prolonging medications.
I don't want his apology. I don't want him in office at all. I absolutely do not want him anywhere near any kind of power that might affect my way of life. He does not represent me, nor does he value my views or opinions.
I am sexually promiscuous and I am proud of it. It makes me popular. All the boys want to be with me. Some of the girls too. I am sought after and desired.
Liston is an archaic dinosaur with stone age values that needs to open his mind and accept us as we are, instead of trying to 'shame' us into compliance with his viewpoint.
February 7, 2008
2:58 p.m.
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Diff writes:
You Religious Zealots make me sick!
if that is all you can come up with; 5000 year old writings to support your position, thats sad!
The opium of the masses ...
February 7, 2008
3:06 p.m.
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ImSomebody writes:
Doesn't Liston have a daugter???
I would hate to be her right now....
and hey, UdontKnowJackie, you available these days..? I sure am....
February 7, 2008
3:11 p.m.
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pegasus99_aka_DR writes:
You tell 'em Diff.
Now, if you don't mind, how about you tell everyone what you believe on the topic at hand, and substantiate why you believe it. That will go a long way toward showing them true enlightenment.
February 7, 2008
4:06 p.m.
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fortyfive writes:
this is to s*** head OROBOROS........just what do you mean put the women and blacks back into their places???????? what are you some dumb fu** that lost your fuc**** mind? i'm a black man and i would offer you the chance to put me back into my place, this is not the good ole boys days. i am damn sure you let your tounge flap with out your 2 brain cells talking to each other, so why dont you try to rethink your position before you fuc* up and get an ass full of lead for your comments i also will post your comment where ever i can to let all races know you are a dumb fu** i do not have a place to be put, i live in society a free man, i also have no criminal record, i so not indulge in drugs, so i am not a burden on society so what in the hell you thinking about
February 7, 2008
4:07 p.m.
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mark79trans writes:
First off - there are just as many over-zealous and irritating Dems out there. Goodness, Hillary, of all people, may win the election for president. This legislator miss-spoke with some pretty offending words. However, the attacks and over-generalizations by some of the people posting is equally offensive! The message whether one agrees or disagrees is abstinence. I was dumb enough to cave in at 28 with the wrong person. I dearly love my son, but I can't even begin to describe the pain and suffering of all involved about brining a child into the world in the wrong circumstance. My son deserves a chance at life so abortion is wrong, and I do my best to be a 50/50 parent. Anyhow, people can do their best to make the most of bad situations, but these situations can be avoided with personal responsibility that should be taught of our young people. Premarital sex that promotes broken families in not right, and our society today believes anything goes and hey now we can just kill the child and avoid the responsibility all together. I do believe that parents should educate their children about sex as well as all the protections that exist if the child chooses to engage in sexual activity. However, we as parents should also educate the child on the consequences of doing so. I sure received a pretty hard education on the consequences of premarital sex, and I do feel ashamed for contributing to the problem and allowing one more child to grow up with a broken family!
February 7, 2008
4:09 p.m.
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EastVail writes:
I'm just like Liston. When I call someone a "slut," I have no intention of offending anyone.
It's a term of endearment, just like the former CU President whats-her-face taught me.
February 7, 2008
4:10 p.m.
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my3pugs writes:
“I had no intention of offending anybody."
Perhaps he considered "sluts" to be a neutral word.
February 7, 2008
4:13 p.m.
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pegasus99_aka_DR writes:
RickyLee -
Sure, they could be wrong. There are a billion Christians. They could be wrong too. Everyone on the planet could be wrong. Or maybe, on some level, everyone on the planet could be right. Who knows? As for the Koran, you can find it on the web at http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/
February 7, 2008
4:16 p.m.
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pegasus99_aka_DR writes:
fortyfive said, "i live in society a free man"
Amen. Forever may it stay that way.
February 7, 2008
4:20 p.m.
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buffsblg writes:
Actually pajamapulitzer, we "liberals" (I know you think that is an insult)do have some idea what to do. For example we know that the current evidence is that the abstinence only programs pushed by the right wing do not work or at least not much. We also know that broader programs that include abstinence with other options including birth control are more successful at reducing pregnancy and std rates. We also know that preaching at kids on a moral basis has no major impact on the rate of teen pregnancy and that states with the highest reported church attendance also have some of the highest reported teen pregnancy rates (and the highest divorce rates). The statistics are pretty clear. Unfortunately the right wing of the Republican party has prevented adequate funding for these programs based upon their religious objections. so we know that it is folks like Liston that are actually part of the problem.
Finally, we are pretty sure that calling the girls names does very little to affect anything except to reveal a great deal of ignorance.
February 7, 2008
4:26 p.m.
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my3pugs writes:
Most of the teenagers I've ever known in my life did not get pregnant even if they did have sex. Most of the ones who did get pregnant did not get that way accidentally. Most of the ones who did not want to care for a baby either terminated or relinquished willingly. Facts are: unmarried teen pregnancy rates are down; unmarried teen abortion rates are down. Its easy to point to immorality of others and ignore the immorality of one's own actions. For example, some consider war immoral, some consider war noble. Some consider sexuality outside of marriage immoral, some consider sexuality outside of marriage as part of human nature. Should government apply a blanket morality upon all?
February 7, 2008
4:46 p.m.
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joeblow writes:
Firenewt and Pajamamama,
A message:
Fire: Your religious zealotry is dangerous. Just as dangerous as any middle eastern martyr.
Pajamamama: If you think everything that conservatives do is right on the money and that everything liberals do is insane, you might want to go back on the meds. You're talking that bi-polar stuff again and you don't even realize it.
PS
I'm glad to help. Come see me anytime.
February 7, 2008
6:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
nonayerbsns writes:
Oh, the SHOCK AND THE HORROR.. I MEAN, SERIOUSLY, A REPUBLICAN SAID SOMETHING OFFENSIVE???? What a schmuck.
February 7, 2008
7:49 p.m.
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vixen6 writes:
really, if someone who has had sex with more than one person is a slut, then that makes me one.
and i'm not pregnant.
its called being careful kids.
but just because teens are having sex doesn't make them sluts. and getting pregnant hardly makes them sluts.
accidents happen. but that goes back to the whole being careful thing. seriously
February 7, 2008
8:08 p.m.
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BJG writes:
Jimmy, I think you missed my point dude. The history of mankind is chock full of exceptionally gifted people who came from non traditional partnerships.
February 7, 2008
8:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
aeb1barfo writes:
If the foo......
Wear it...
( old joke saying, but teeth behind that joke ).
I'm tired of Political Correctness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/3...
Reality. Deal with it.
February 7, 2008
9:17 p.m.
Suggest removal
jacka writes:
Larry Liston is a slut.
February 7, 2008
10:53 p.m.
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Retread writes:
Pegasus, here are a few references:
Acts 15:20 abstain from fornication...
Acts 21:25 keep themselves from fornication...
1 Cor. 5:9 I wrote unto you...not to company with fornicators...
1 Cor 6:9 inherit the kingdom...neither fornicators...
1 Cor 6:13 body is not for fornication...
1 Cor 7:2 to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife
1 Cor 10:8 neither let us commit fornication
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest...adultery, fornication...
Eph 5:3 But fornication and all uncleanness...let it not be once named among you as becometh saints
Col 3:5 ...fornication, uncleanness...
1 Thess 4:3 For this is the will of God...abstain from fornication
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah...giving themselves over to fornication and going after strange flesh
Rev 14:8 ...drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication
Rev 17:2 with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication...
Rev 19:2 the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication...
{in the OT it's usually refered to as "whoredoms"}
But if no one fornicated, none of us would be here to call each other sluts and Bible thumpers!
February 8, 2008
1:06 a.m.
Suggest removal
kilkenny326 writes:
PajamaPulitzer:
I guess when you said, "Abstinence works 100% of the time it's used", You didn't account for Mary...Jesus' mom. ;-)
As far as tax dollars... although its way off topic... I really resent having MY tax dollars going to an illegal war and war profiteers....But I really don't have much say in the matter, do I? And what does this have to do with the Constitution?
And please....we all could take you a bit more seriously if you did some research as to what constitutes a Democratic or a Republican ideology. Its pretty clear you don't know.
February 8, 2008
9:13 a.m.
Suggest removal
raidermom writes:
Way to go Rep. Liston. I, too, am tired of all the PC crap. I'm only 45, but in the old days "ya called em as ya saw em." Please note when the crime rate, teen pregnancy, high murder rate, etc. started to rise. It started to rise when we got "liberated" in the 60's & 70's. When make love, not war was the slogan of the day. A lady used to know how to act like a lady and a gentleman used to know how to treat a lady. Now all bets are off and anything goes. Yes, we've come a long way baby (sarcasm).