Natalee Holloway's mother: Secret footage proves Dutch student not innocent

Rocky wire reports

Published February 4, 2008 at 12:30 a.m.
Updated February 4, 2008 at 8:56 a.m.

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February 4, 2008

9:26 a.m.

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forwhatitis writes:

PP, how do you know her mother didn't advise her not to go? Wasn't she on a tour with a bunch of Americans with adult guides?
February 4, 2008

9:35 a.m.

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psu96 writes:

PP,
you seem to be making a lot of judgments on a lot of these articles. It must be nice to be so holier than thou. But you morale judgments are again assumptions and unfounded.
February 4, 2008

9:39 a.m.

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momof5 writes:

While I think it may have been irresponsible for the mother to let her 18 year old daughter go on this senior outing, there were many other kids who went along who came back fine. The problem here is that Natalee ran into that sleazebag Van der Sloot and drank probably more than she should have. There can't be any question in anyone's mind that this guy had something to do with her death, even if he was there and failed to get her medical help but instead had her body thrown into the ocean. I think as a parent I would be tired of waiting for the authorities to re-arrest the guy. If it was my daughter, I'd prefer quicker justice, even if I had to do it myself. The guy is a spoiled little rich kid whose parents are going to do whatever they can to make sure he never pays for his crimes.
February 4, 2008

10:20 a.m.

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calbeach95 writes:

Pajama Pulitzer must not know the details of the saga. Natalee Holloway was part of a group of seniors that were accompanied by other parents who were chaperones on a spring break trip on what is considered one of the safest islands in the Caribbean. The same incident could have happened at a ski resort in Colorado or the beaches in Florida or even the local mall. How does geography make Natalee's mother morally irresponsible? Curfews don't even enter into what happened here as it could have happened at any time in the evening. As a child is preparing to go off to college, at some point in time one has to give an 18 year old enough trust that they will act responsibly and know that they have taught them the best they could. Given Natalee's background, I do not believe she was an irresponsible child. My son was in her graduating class and this is a tragedy. Blaming the mother of a dead child has no place here. I guess PajamaPulitzer has no teenagers.
February 4, 2008

11:02 a.m.

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psu96 writes:

PP,
if my child was 18 they would not have to ask me. So how many teenagers went? How may of them came back fine?

PP it sounds like you are a helicopter parent. Who is portraying them mom as an innocent victim, us the article? your two kids in college do not have to ask your permission to go on a trip.
When I was in college we went out of country for a "mission" so in your distorted view PP we should not have went out of fear?
February 4, 2008

11:38 a.m.

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ChelseaG writes:

PP,

I'm currently 22 and consider my upbringing to have been much more strict than that of most of my peers. A few months before I turned 18, my senior class went to South Padre Island in Texas for our senior trip. There were 19 of us, most of whom had been going to school together since elementary school. We had three adult chaperones, two of which were teachers at our high school. We had spent the better part of the previous four years raising money for this very trip and we had an absolute blast. Yes, there was A LOT of drinking. But I do not consider my parents to have put me in a dangerous situation by allowing me to go on that trip. They know everything that happened on the trip (probably more than they wanted to know) and would still allow my sister, who is now 17, to go on a similar trip. I think it's asenine of you to say that Natalie's mother put her in danger by letting her go on the trip. If Twitty is to blame for anything, it's for not teaching her daughter to drink responsibly. Furthermore, if it hadn't happened in Aruba, what's to say Natalie wouldn't have over-indulged in college, like Sam Spady did while I was attending Colorado State? It doesn't have anything to do with Natalie's parents allowing her to go on her senior trip. It has everything to do with teaching your children the dangers of drinking too much, which is a dialogue that is too often over-looked by parents of teenagers.
February 4, 2008

noon

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Quagmate writes:

PJ-Pul. You sound a lot like someone who hasn't had the lightning strike yet. When it strikes, then you can wonder why you let them drive and they get killed in a car accident. Why you let them go to College and get date raped. Why you let them walk across the street and get him by a car. Why they end up with Cancer. And you will ask yourself what you could have done different. Coulda, shoulda, if only... When you reach that place come back here and tell everyone how you are not without blame, you will have earned that right.

You ask those people who have lost a child what they would have done differnt and they will go one chapter and verse. Pointing out what they as parents should have done without a common frame of reference is uninformed and rather small minded because you have can't know what they did or have been through.
February 4, 2008

12:34 p.m.

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Devil_Dog writes:

At the age of 17 I was a freshman in college, doing a lot of the stupid things college kids do. The four years before that I was in high school doing most of the stupid thing high school kids do. My parents brought me up right, but I still did stupid things, it's called being young. It's tragic but a few of us don't survive one of these stupid things, that's the reality of life. sometimes it's due to bad parenting, sometimes it's due to a third party's negligence, sometimes it's even murder. Many time it's just bad judgement by the young person who dies. When it is due to one of these bad outside forces then punishment should be meted out accordingly, otherwise it's just a very sad tragic event that has to be endured by the family and friends of the one who is gone. The rest of us do not need to blame anyone but the one guilty of a crime this poor girls mother committed no crime, nor do I think she was negligent.

Oh, and the 4 years after college I spent in the USMC, some people grow up faster that others some a little slower. Ther were several very mature 18 year old in boot-camp, and thank God for them. We all grow at our own pace and good parents realize this pace and account for it. So some 18 year olds need a little space and others need a little TLC. It's a tough choice but good parents try to give what is needed not what they think should be needed.
February 4, 2008

1:07 p.m.

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kitty writes:

PJ-I was going to avoid commenting on your posts, but I just couldn't after reading the last one....do you really think that just because you, as a responsible parent, tell your children not to drink, smoke pot, have sex, drive too fast in their cars, ETC that they will not ever do it "because you said so"? (or haven't done so behind your back already) If you belive that, then I feel sorry for you the day one of them does something you don't approve of....actually, I feel sorry for them! Sounds like you live in an unrealistic world!
February 4, 2008

1:10 p.m.

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FL_transplant writes:

Damn this story never goes away.. I feel bad for her family, but its time to move on. Nancy Grace needs new material.
February 4, 2008

1:19 p.m.

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psu96 writes:

PJ, I wouln't be surprised if your kids are afraid to talk with you about things happening in theirs lives, or have kept secrets from you out of fear of your moral judgements. You believe your in tje know but I bet those college age kids are going to parites, then when you call them to tuck them in bed they are telling you they were at the library all night.
February 4, 2008

1:44 p.m.

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newsjunkie writes:

PP - I support you here. I am sick and tired of seeing Beth Twitty on the t.v. talking about what a victim she is of the Arubian (sp?) government instead of warning other parents about the dangers of letting their high school age children travel to resort destinations where they can drink legally and where partying is the main attraction. any idiot knows why Aruba was selected as the destination for this trip - for the partying sans drinking age limitations. and any of you posters that dispute that are being dishonest with yourselves and the rest of the readers on here. these parents turned a blind eye to the wants of their precious little darlings - you know, it's more important that your kid be able to join the popular kids on the drinking vacation, be seen as cool and hip, etc., etc. i don't care that adult chaperones were on the trip - obviously the plan was to let the kids go to night clubs unsupervised. ultimately YOU as the parent are responsible for your kid, not a few chaperones. and that is how this tragic event took place. you can't protect your kids from all bad decisions - as many other posters have expressed. and of course, they are going to do stupid things and make bad judgments no matter what you do. but you don't have to give them the means to get in way over their heads by buying them an expensive trip to a tropical anything-goes locale and saying "have a great time." please. any responsible parent would never let their teenage child go on such a trip. there are other ways to reward your teenager for graduation or whatever -hey, how about going on the trip with them so you can know what they are doing at all times??? or send them on a trip to Europe where while the drinking age is lower - drinking would not be the focus of the trip - and the kids might learn something. a lot more than they would learn from hanging out on a beach getting drunk. no, instead Beth wanted her daughter to have what all her friends have so she sent her on a booze soaked vacation to Aruba. she neeeds to take an honest look at herself and own up to her own poor judgment as a parent. GET A CLUE.
February 4, 2008

1:50 p.m.

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newsjunkie writes:

ugh - i meant to say these parents turned a blind eye and gave in to the wants of their precious little darlings. typing too fast.

and another thing - what is with this idea that kids must be rewarded for graduation with a tropical vacation? talk about over-indulgence. isn't graduation "expected" - not "rewarded"? why does a kid deserve a trip? we never had such a thing back in my day - you maybe got a set of luggage and some stuff for your dorm room. now kids expect to get to go on a costly drinking trip??? i think therein lies the problem - we have an theme here, folks: you have a bunch of spoiled kids that are completely overindulged by a bunch of spineless, clueless parents. they are rewarded for something they did that should be just expected - graduation. and they were rewarded with the opportunity to engage in an activity they can't do at home without running afoul of the law. and the end result for one of these teens was tragedy. i just shake my head.
February 4, 2008

1:59 p.m.

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Kslayer writes:

PJ, I agree with you! I know a lot of people with really bad experiances during these type of trips. Expecially women. Fortunantly they didn't end up like Natalle Holloway. We all know what happens on these trips. It's all about experiancing Freedom for the first time. Sex and Drinking are a big part of that freedom we crave when we are kids. I wouldn't allow my son or daugter at 18 to travel to places like these Without "MY SUPERVISION" because I fear for what could happen to them. Your not mature enough at 18 to understand the consequences of certain choices. God Willing as they mature and age and become seasoned adults then, that is when they can make a choice and travel by themselves. I would always fear for My kids because I love them, but I would be more comfortable knowing that they are mature adults.
February 4, 2008

2:03 p.m.

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newsjunkie writes:

calbeach95 - you are in denial. per your post - i suspect you also let your son go on this trip and that is why you are so defensive about Mrs. Twitty's decision. sure - this could have happened at a CO ski resort, in Florida, etc. but it would have been a lot less likely - because . . . these kids WOULD NOT have been able to get into a nightclub!!!!!!!!!!!! not in the States. and how is Aruba qualified as one of the safest islands??? what is your basis for that claim? yeah, maybe for a person of legal age who goes out at night with several others of legal age. but not for a teenager inexperienced with drinking who is allowed to roam the nightclubs all night without any supervision and hang out with people of all ages - including adults who might want to harm them. these chaperones let these kids do whatever they wanted, because, hell, this is Aruba!! and it's legal here! yippeee! we can go back to our hotel rooms and just relax. it wouldn't have been the same scenario in CO or FL - and you know it. you are just grabbing at straws and making baseless assertions in order to defend this ill-conceived trip. Beth Twitty could do a lot more good by instead of acting like the perpetual victim - she could warn parents not to pay for trips such as this.
February 4, 2008

2:19 p.m.

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Devil_Dog writes:

Let's not make some magic line here. Some people are mature enough to make good decisions at 18, some people are not. Some of this has to do with how you are brought up and the circumstances of your life thus far, some has to do with your personal make up and your personal drive. But we shouldn't say all 18 year olds are not capable of rational thinking. At 18 you are eligible to vote, in some states you are old enough to drink, you are allowed to join the military (in some cases expected to fight for your country), you are permitted to get a drivers license... And exactly what do you think is going on on every college campus in the free world? I'm not saying this little girl was mature enough to make good decisions, I didn't know her. Maybe she was, probably, given what happened, she was not. I'm just saying let's not coddle everyone. Let people grow at the pace that they can. Let's put a little more focus on why someone let that little girl die (if that's how it happened). If it isn't let's find out just exactly how it did happen, and go from there.
February 4, 2008

2:29 p.m.

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newsjunkie writes:

I agree with devil-dog that there is no magic line. yes, it's true that Natalie could have gone off to college in the fall, got drunk one night and joined bad company (and by the way, in support of his arguments about no "magic line," i think the drinking age in the U.S. should go back to 19, but that is a topic for another day). and you as a parent cannot protect your child from those bad decisions. but what i'm saying is that the parent here gave Natalie, while still a high-schooler, the means to get in way over her head by overindulging her in a vacation, to borrow from another poster, to "the Caribbean equivalent of Amsterdam." sending your teenager on a trip to Padre Island, Aruba, Nassau, Cancun - and the like - is asking for trouble. kids need to go off to college, the armed services, live on their own, etc., after high school. they don't need a trip to booze-soaked Aruba where the drinking age is - well, is there even a drinking age there?

and by the way - i know of no state in the U.S. where the drinking age is 18. all states had to give in and go to 21 eventually or risk losing federal highway funds.
February 4, 2008

2:34 p.m.

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Kslayer writes:

Devil Dog, You are right. There are some very mature 18 year olds out there. My opinion is that the majority of 18 year olds are far behind the curv when it comes to maturity levels. I feel that any 18 year old that feels that a trip to a tropical resort is a must is a little low on the maturity level, and extremely high on the I'm spoiled and should get anything I want from mommy and daddy level. What good reason is there for an 18 yr old to be at a tropical Island without their parents? Do they need the vacation from the harsh strech of life they have endured so far? Please! There is only one reason to be a teen and want to find yourself in a place like that without your parents. Even the most mature of all 18 year olds lack the wisdom of living a life outside of the home. Most teens that can afford a ticket to Paradise im sure are still connected to the umbellical cord.
February 4, 2008

3:01 p.m.

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Quagmate writes:

I don't ley my kids "play with lightning." It only takes one error in judgement, one bad twist of luck, just one. BTW you did not respond to the real point of my post. You instead attacked it with an erroneous assumption.

MY POINT IS, DON'T CRTIC SOMEONE ELSE UNTIL AFTER YOU LOOSE A CHILD! YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!

You can have an opinion, you just don't have the perspective to to share it unless you haveve earned it through sad experience. Glad your kids are all great and wonderful PP, there are alot of things in life that can happen, don't stand there in judgement (and you are judging her) unless you truely are without blemish.

P.S. - What ever happned to compassion let alone empathy? How sad is it that we as a society feel so brazen to say things on computer message boards we would never dare to say to the people themselves. How many of you here would actually walk up to Beth Twitty and say it was her fault in part for letting her daughter go there. Sure you can post you would, but who among you would cast the first stone.
February 4, 2008

3:10 p.m.

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Devil_Dog writes:

Don't get me wrong. I don't think that this little girl was ready for this type of responsibility. And NO parents shouldn't pay for their high school age children to go to such a place. I went on a senior trip, via bus, saw the Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, San Francisco, LA LA Land, San Diego, The Alamo, and then back home, some drinking (not much) went on, some sex (not much and not me and not cause I didn't try), and a whole lot of good experiences. I paid for it myself (mostly) and those of us who went spent four years earning the funds for the bus, rooms and all.

I just think we need to teach some personal responsibility to out kids, so many today are so protected and spoiled that they make very bad adults. I do agree that this girl probably falls into the spoiled category I just don't want everyone to go all out the other way.

You could be right about the drinking age, I don't drink much anymore (and everyone looks 18 to me), and since I got out of the Corps most of my traveling is to CA or HI or just good old Co.
February 4, 2008

3:12 p.m.

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newsjunkie writes:

quagmate - knock it off with the hysterics. let's have a reasoned, intelligent debate here. so just b/c I or other posters may not have lost a child, then we are not free to express an opinion about Beth Twitty's poor choices?? that is completely absurd. and actually, since you posed the dare - I could confront Mrs. Twitty, if I had the chance. she has had no problem putting herself in front of the t.v. cameras any chance she gets - so I would have no problem asking her honestly if she regretted paying for her daughter to go on that trip and asking her why she did make that choice. i would have no problem suggesting to her that maybe parents should be warned against such "gifts" to their children. if she was honest with herself - she would agree.
February 4, 2008

3:20 p.m.

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newsjunkie writes:

that's how it was when I was a teen too - Devil_Dog - we had to EARN our school trips through fund raisers and saving our own money for a bus trip - not too glamourous but at least we earned it and we learned something too. and if you were caught drinking - you got sent home early on a different bus. mommy and daddy didn't pony up for tropical island jaunts. and the trips we went on were trips like you describe - to see national landmarks, such as D.C. and NYC, Grand Canyon. not drunken free-for-alls in the Caribbean. this is what's wrong with teens and parents today - total overindulgence and rewarding behavior that is EXPECTED - like good grades, staying out of trouble and graduating on time. kids want to drink on vacation? let's make it easy for them - send them to an island where it's legal! yeah, that makes a whole helluva lot of sense.
February 4, 2008

3:40 p.m.

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Devil_Dog writes:

The entitled age is upon us.
February 4, 2008

4:03 p.m.

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forwhatitis writes:

Hey PJ, do you still wipe your children's a$$'s for them?
February 4, 2008

4:25 p.m.

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newsjunkie writes:

trip to Europe - a wonderful educational opportunity, of course not without risks, but you can't protect your kids from everything.

trip to Aruba - a booze-soaked, sex on the beach, anything goes unsupervised party trip. the only "opportunities" you would be depriving your children of by not letting them go would be the opportunity to get in situations way over their heads.

BIG difference.
February 4, 2008

4:43 p.m.

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ChelseaG writes:

Well said, GWM. To say no responsible parent would allow their teenager to go on such a trip is just ridiculous. As I said in my first post, my parents ARE responsible parents who allowed me to go to Spain my freshman year of high school (several kids were suspended when we returned home for drinking - I was not one of them) and to South Padre Island the week before I graduated from high school. My class spent four years fundraising for that trip. We learned valuable lessons about budgeting, booking travel, getting along to accomplish a common goal, compromise, good business, etc. Our parents did not directly give any of us the money to go. I drank on the trip, had a great time with the kids I grew up with and made lasting memories of those individuals. Then I returned home, gave my valedictorian speech at the commencement ceremony and waited anxiously the next two months to begin my college career. I graduated in 3 1/2 years with honors, found a great job, and am now completely self-sufficient at 22 years old. I'd say my parents did a damn good job of raising me "responsibly" even though they allowed me to go on such a trip. Furthermore, my sister, who is a junior in high school, excels in school and on the basketball court and soccer field. She recently accepted a full-ride scholarship to the University of New Mexico to play soccer after turning down another university because the program had no rules against drinking during the season. You think she'd be mature enough to make such decisions if she had not been raised by responsible parents? No. Our parents raised us responsibly by not sheltering us from the real world and by letting us make mistakes and then taking the opportunity afterward to teach us right from wrong. Inevitably, your kids are going to find themselves in sticky situations somewhere along the line. If you raised them "responsibly" then hopefully they'll have a good head on their shoulders to make the right decisions. People still make mistakes, though, and unforunately, Natalie made a mistake that cost her her life. Unless you were there to supervise every step of Natlie's upbringing, you are in no place to judge Beth Twitty's parenting abilities. Period.
February 4, 2008

4:52 p.m.

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oldsoldier writes:

PJ, FYI everyone on here is grilling you because of your ignorant posts. You wouldn't let your kids take a senior trip to Aruba at 18 because of the possibility they might have sex and drink, but you would let your kids go off to college at 18? Not sure what college you went to but where I went, and where most everyone else went, you didn't need to go to Aruba to get drunk or laid. As to Betty Twitty being in some way "responsible" for her daughter's death...that's just an ignorant statement from an ignorant person.
February 4, 2008

5:12 p.m.

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newsjunkie writes:

god, get with the program - sending your kids off to college and sending them off to Aruba for a booze-soaked trip are TWO very different things. college is where your child will learn to be an adult and prepare for a career. it's a necessary choice, as a parent, I would argue. yes, they may drink, have sex and engage in other risky behaviors while at college and there is nothing you can do about it. sending your kids off to Aruba only accomplishes one thing: it gives them full-on permission to drink themselves silly all day and all night in a foreign country. how is the trip to Aruba necessary for their growth and development? how can you compare that to going off to college? one more time here: college - good for kid - even though it comes with risks and temptations. Aruba - nothing good for kid. just pure self-indulgence.

yes, chelseag, we can judge Beth Twitty. she is putting herself out there on the t.v. voicing her opinions of the Arubian gov't and the handling of the investigation into her daughter's appearance. that's what people do on these comment boards. they read a story and respond to the behaviors of the people involved. so what about the recent stories of parents in CO who are being investigated/charged in the deaths of their children brought on by neglect/abuse? are we not entitled to judge them either b/c we weren't there "for their upbringing every step of the way" as you say? we're all sorry for Mrs. Twitty's loss - but that doesn't mean we can't call her out on her refusal to own up to her bad parenting decisions. sending teens to Aruba knowing full well Aruba was chosen as the destination b/c the kids could party and drink - is bad parenting. period. (to borrow your word).
February 4, 2008

5:17 p.m.

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newsjunkie writes:

oh and chelseag, it looks like you sure did get a lot out of your trip to Padre - by your own admission, you drank and partied underage. you could've been Natalie - you could've become so intoxicated that you left the nightclub with a stranger and ended up dead. i can't believe you think are supporting your pro-Twitty argument by admitting yourself you went on a party trip to Padre and drank as a teen. just think how much of your college expenses that Padre trip money could've paid for. i hope the boozing in Padre was worth it.
February 4, 2008

5:54 p.m.

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carolinagirl writes:

Let's not dignify pp's comments with our opinions. Her comment is absurd. Most 18 year olds have been on class trips, cruises, etc. For that matter most 6 year olds have.
February 4, 2008

5:58 p.m.

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ChelseaG writes:

Actually, newsjunkie, the money we raised for that trip was STRICTLY for that trip. If you didn't go on the trip, you forfeited the money you earned. So none of it could have gone towards my college expenses. I NEVER said I was pro-Twitty. I do not know the lady. All I'm saying is that you're being extremely judgemental when you say parents are irresponsible for allowing their children to take these trips. Yes, I was underage and drank on that trip. But I knew my limits and we went in a group and made sure everyone came home with us when the night was over. Each night we went out, someone stayed sober to make sure everyone returned safely. That's where my parents were RESPONSIBLE in my upbringing. And I had a great time! Going to South Padre wasn't supposed to be an educational trip. The vacation was set up for us to enjoy the last week we would all spend together. It wasn't all about boozing. We parasailed, went to the water park, hung out on the beach, rode jet skiis, etc. The class before us went to California and a few classes before that just went to the mountains...the same exact things happened! So, I take personal offense to you indirectly calling my upbringing "bad parenting". My parents understood the fact that kids will be kids. You can't shelter them from everything. They're going to do stupid things and make mistakes. No, I probably shouldn't have drank on that trip knowing what the possible consequences were. But if I hadn't, I doubt I'd be any more successful than I am now. It didn't drastically alter my life. My parents are still, to this day, teaching me life lessons and someday, when I become a parent, I can only hope to be half the mentor they were to me. And I'll definitely be sure to teach my kids basic punctuation so they don't look like un-educated, judgemental "news junkies" when they decide to post on a comment board. Capitalizing the first word of every sentence - now that's good parenting :)
February 4, 2008

5:58 p.m.

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Quagmate writes:

NewsJunkie, hysteric? Me? You sound rather irritated, whereas I am infact being logical. It's called projection, you acuse the person you are arguing with of the very thing you are doing.

Why so angry? Would you look Beth Twitty in the eye and say that? I'm always sooo impressed with Internet boastings. You have no problem with it?

Walk a mile in someone elses shoes? No tell them their shoes suck and I would have never bought them.

What do you care though? You get to expouse an uninformed opinion and "pretend" to know something about it. Do you know anyone who has lost a child? Ask them what they think they could have done different. Better yet, ask them if they are to blame.

Go ahead. You won't you never will, and you will never meet Beth Twitty. Empty promises.

It's too bad, people get hurt and loose someone they love, then have to put up with blaming the victim and their upbringing. She wants justice and the truth, what is wrong with that?
February 4, 2008

6:25 p.m.

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HopeAndGlory writes:

A prayer goes out to all of you who are parents, may you never have to go through what Natalie Holloway's mother experienced. Maybe we should ask the question.......how many of you are here debating about something that you actually have any experience with........ that being the death of a child?

It is called the game of life folks and regardless of whose child it is, how they were raised and what type of moral character and sound mentor you think you are...a parents first mistake is the decision to bring a child into this world thinking they can control ones destiny. What about all those parents who lost an 18 year old at war in Iraq? I guess some of you would say it was also their parents fault to have a child put in harms way to begin with? Be thankful if your children are breathing and alive, walking on American soil and have the freedom to make choices for themselves. Be thankful you ARE NOT Holloway's mother or father and show some respect for those who have been there. If you people have nothing else better to do in life than pass judgment on someone, look at the poor kid down the street who desperately needs a mentor or volunteer some time at the YMCA in a big brother, big sister program. You are required by law to have a license to marry. Today, you are even required by law to have a passport to travel to Mexico, Aruba or Canada. Unfortunately, no one is required by law to first have a passport, license or degree in order to have children.
February 4, 2008

8:38 p.m.

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coelean writes:

I can't believe one of you on here posting negative comments, would tell your son your daughter sorry but you can't go on your senior trip. Freaky things happen whether you here or there. Like the last person said be thankful your not in there place wondering where your daughters body is. Be respectful.
February 5, 2008

8:38 a.m.

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DK08 writes:

This is getting out of hand.
A murder happened. There were several moments throughout the trip that led up to this.
Sure, mom let daughter go... Like none of you ever sought a trip from home on any level? Former hippies to San Fransisco? "Educational" trip to Europe? That made me laugh. Just because it has art it's educational? There is booze and sex across the world...it's available. Doesn't matter where, it's there.
Don't forget, a murder happened.
True, parents and schools need to do their best to teach children, however everyone is curious, tempted, and want to experience things on their own.
Yes, the other group members failed at allowing her to leave alone with a strange man.
And a murder happened.
But the fact of the matter is, this guy is a freakin' psycho murderer! Natalie was unfortunate enough to cross paths with him that night. But if it wasn't her, sounds like it could have been whatever other girl talked to him.
There were a lot of errors in this horribly, tragic event. That's why we're talking about it. However to put blame on mom is just vicious.
Because a murder happened.
PJ Pul - I am extremely familiar with parents like you. You are looking out for their best interest, and I'm sure you are a wonderful parent. But I'm sure they are afraid to tell you some things. I'm sure you do have the rose colored lenses over their eyes. I'm sure you were either raised the same way, or made huge mistakes and vowed to not raise yours the same. But to judge a mother so callously is not right.
As I said, alcohol, sex, drugs are so ubiquitous and easily attainable, anything could happen.
It's like everyone coming down on you because your oldest child went to a restaurant (since you claim they don't go to bars or hang out with people who do) and only drank pop. But someone drugged their drink. That happens. Then is it fair for us to turn and point the finger at you crying neglect and horrible parenting?
Caged birds have to learn to fly sometime. Don't restrain your children so much. The more they learn, the more they may resent you. Or how about getting caught in a Halloween drive by shooting? Your fault for letting them trick-or treat? Nice try, PJ Pul, but your not realizing the tragedies of the world realistically.
People thrive on freedom. You have to allow them to take ownership.
I'm speaking as a child, teacher, mentor, parent, brother, and role model.
February 5, 2008

10:25 a.m.

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newsjunkie writes:

once again - someone please tell me - what is the purpose of a teen graduation trip to Aruba/Cancun/Padre? really - can you tell me why this trip is something you or I should spring for so that our teen can join in on one big week long beach booze blowout? of course, alcohol and sex are everywhere. but in Aruba? the Amsterdam of the Caribbean? paying for your teen to travel there without you, the parent, is just setting them up for this type of tragic situation. why is that sort of trip necessary? please justify this sort of a trip to me.

chelseag - oh the good ol' punctuation/capitalization/grammar attack when you can't come up with a good reasoned rebuttal to another poster's arguments. i didn't realize i was writing a legal brief and not a comment on a message board. for 22, you have a lot of growing up to do.

Quagmate - you need to separate the issue of the horrible loss of a child to the issue of indulging teens in ill-advised trips to party destinations. once you are able to set aside your emotion about Mrs. Twitty's loss - then you will understand my post and the posts of others who are alarmed by these kinds of parenting decisions.
February 5, 2008

11:40 a.m.

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ChelseaG writes:

My apologies, newsjunkie. Shame on me for getting fired up about such a subject and arguing with someone like you. You're the type of person who, for the life of you, cannot look at a news story objectively. You take every word verbatim and truly believe everything you read. As I spent an hour on the phone talking to my father about this subject last night, I realized why they call it the silent majority. And as he pointed out, it's a waste to try to present your opinion to someone who simply cannot force themself to see the other side. As for your comment about my maturity level - what does that say about you arguing with a 22 year old? All I'm saying here is that senior trips are not the devil and parents who allow their children to go on them are not deadbeat, irresponsible parents. Natalee's disappearance and probable death are a tragedy. No one can deny that. If you want to deny your children the opportunity to go on a trip with their friends at 18 to a party destination, then that's your choice. But it's unneccessary, and frankly ignorant, to criticize parents who have and state that they are irresponsible. Anyway, thank you, newsjunkie, for showing me that these comment boards are a complete waste of time.
February 5, 2008

1:48 p.m.

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newsjunkie writes:

chelseag - pot meet kettle.

i never called Mrs. Twitty a deadbeat. And I never said all senior trips are the devil. I said trips for teens to party destinations (Padre, Aruba, Mardi Gras) sans parents are ill-advised. and Mrs. Twitty needs to be honest with herself and do the rest of the public a favor by coming out and admitting that. we understand she wants justice for her daughter's death. we want justice for her too and want to see that van der Sloot punk locked up for good. but some of us also want to see an acknowledgement on her part that sending your teen on an anything-goes, no drinking age, booze filled week in Aruba is a very bad idea. I have yet to see a poster on here justify such a trip or describe the benefits of the same. i'm still waiting . . .

I believe you are the one who is unable to look at this story objectively. you can't see past the tragedy that occurred to see the underlying themes of overindulgence and poor decisions re: parenting teens. you went on an similar trip yourself as a teen - albeit paid for by your own fundraising - and you desparately want to justify your parents' decision to allow you to go - and to justify your underage drinking on that trip. good luck with that.
February 5, 2008

3:27 p.m.

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Grim_Reefer writes:

newsjunkie-

your point is dumb...I've been on church retreats that have drugs/booze and sex going on behind the scenes and in the shadows. So why don't you dismount from your (and PJ award's) high moral horse, just for minute.

Mrs Twiity needs to 'come out' and state..'oh, it's my fault because I sent my daughter on a school trip' (something tens of thousands of other parents have done, in the States and abroad)?

Party destinations? Good grief..where there's a will, any place teens get together can turn into a party place...a damn cornfield can become a party destination, for crying out loud.

Mrs. Twitty needs to admit her 'mistake'? Why not ask all the other parents who let their kids go down to Aruba (or wherever...two blocks from the house..for all the location matters) to admit their 'mistakes' too? Aren't they just as complicit as she? They let their kids go, as ill-advised as you say it is. And why let them off the hook? What about the teachers, the principal, the school board, too? Maybe if you try real hard, you can ask Bush to admit his responsibility some, too.

Maybe Mrs Twitty will admit her 'mistake' when you (and PJaward) admit to being intolerant and self-righteous twits.

what do you think?

Personally, I think we will all be waiting a very long time for either admission...
February 5, 2008

4:28 p.m.

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newsjunkie writes:

dumb, huh? o.k., so it's not dumb to let a bunch of teens go out and party all night at the nightclubs on a Caribbean island?? gosh, I must be out of touch - I guess the definition of dumb has changed over time.

Ms. Twitty doesn't have to say it was my fault - what she needs to say is hey, parents out there, beware of these sorts of trips. the kids have way too much freedom on the island, even with chaperones present. and parents, be aware that the drinking age on these islands allows teens to enter nightclubs. she could say i don't want any other parent to be going through what I am going through so i want to warn folks not to fall for their teen's begging and pleading about wanting to take some "educational and memory building" trip to Aruba/Cancun/Mardi Gras. trips. stay the course and just tell your kids "No". kids don't have to have everything they ask for or everything their friends have.

give me a break. when kids are partying out in the cornfield - parents usually don't know about it. b/c you can't be with them all the time. I can't believe you fail to see how this is different. here, the parents paid for the trip and allowed the kids to hang out in nightclubs and allowed them to drink. that is like handing over the keys to the castle, so to speak, and just saying to your teen - go for it, have a good time, you deserved it because you graduated, got good grades. of course, teens drink and do other risky stuff - behind your back and without your knowledge. but this is much different. Ms. Twitty and all the parents knowingly sent their kids on this trip with full knowledge of what would be going on down there on a tropical island with a lower drinking age. did they really believe they would just be hanging out on the beach and watching movies in their hotel rooms at night??? please. and the chaperones turned a blind eye when the kids headed out to the nightclubs. there is a big difference between knowingly letting your kids do stuff - and your kids sneaking around on a church trip or out in a corn field.

oh, and to answer your question - yes, the other parents who let their kids go on this trip, the chaperones (shame on them the most) and the school, if it sponsored or help plan the trip - all also used very poor judgment.

intolerant? no, just willing to say what many others are afraid to say about the overindulgence of teens by spineless parents.
February 5, 2008

4:32 p.m.

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newsjunkie writes:

the rationalizations on this board can be summed up as follows: oh well, teens are going to party here in a cornfield, on a church trip, in their dorm room, when i'm not home, any where, any time. so, i might as well just say, can't beat 'em - then join 'em. and PAY for them to party in Aruba - with my blessing!!!!!!!!!!

now, do you see the point???
February 6, 2008

8:59 a.m.

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Grim_Reefer writes:

Why don't you just tell your kids to say 'no' and be content with that?

Home › News › National News

Natalee Holloway's mother: Secret footage proves Dutch student not innocent

Rocky wire reports

Published February 4, 2008 at 12:30 a.m.Updated February 4, 2008 at 8:56 a.m.

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Published February 4, 2008 at 12:30 a.m.
Updated February 4, 2008 at 8:56 a.m.