Will the anti-Obama zealots give the birth allegations a rest?
Rocky Mountain News
Published December 9, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.
By refusing on Monday to hear a lawsuit challenging whether Barack Obama is indeed eligible under the Constitution to become the 44th president, the U.S. Supreme Court should have put to rest the fanciful rumors about the president-elect.
Yet the justices' action will not end the fringe conspiracy-mongering. David Weigel reported in Slate that Obama's foes have mailed "information" packets to presidential electors in advance of their Dec. 15 vote; right-wing activist Bob Schultz, who has orchestrated the campaign, says electors who vote for Obama are committing "treason to the Constitution."
May we offer some advice? Get a life. It appears that the phenomenon known as Bush Derangement Syndrome - with unhinged left-wingers willing to believe any scurrilous rumor about the 43rd president - has a mirror image on the right.
Some claim that Obama was born in Kenya, not Hawaii, and his birth certificate was faked. Others concede he was born in Hawaii but say he gave up his U.S. citizenship at age 6 when his mother, who married a citizen of Indonesia, moved the family to that nation.
It's difficult to believe rational adults can take these allegations seriously (and they have in fact been debunked). Obama served eight years in the Illinois legislature and most of one term in the U.S. Senate. If he were not a citizen, don't you think at least one of his campaign opponents would have found the proof to make that charge stick?
Even if the facts were murky, however, what possible point is there to raising them at this time? Does anyone seriously believe a court is going to try to bar from office the candidate chosen as president by a clear majority of voters? What do these zealots want, civil disorder?
The case the court refused to hear is on even shakier legal footing. New Jersey litigant Leo Donofrio doesn't question whether Obama was born in Hawaii. Instead, he argues that Obama is not a U.S. citizen because his Kenyan father was a British subject.
Donofrio essentially argued that the first section of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, which clearly states, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States . . . are citizens of the United States," is meaningless.
If he's right, the tens of millions over the past century who have been born on U.S. soil to parents who were natives of other countries aren't U.S. citizens, either. Now that's a tall order for the Immigration and Customs Enforcement service to handle.
A member of Obama's incoming Cabinet may indeed face legal problems, however, relating to the Emoluments Clause of Article I of the Constitution. Under that provision, it's unlawful for a member of Congress to be appointed to a federal office if the salary for that position has been increased during the lawmaker's current term.
It turns out that all Cabinet members got a "cost-of-living" increase last year. And Secretary of State nominee Hillary Clinton was re-elected to the Senate in 2006. Interpreted literally, Clinton could not serve in the Cabinet until her term ends in 2013.
Clinton advisers say Congress could fix this problem by revoking the pay raise. Congress has done that at least four times in the past 100 years, most recently in 1993 so that then-Sen. Lloyd Bentsen could become President Clinton's Treasury secretary. But some legal scholars say the practice is unconstitutional and that none of those lawmakers should have been allowed to join a president's Cabinet.
We're guessing the next Congress will do for Clinton what it did for Bentsen. But a legal test of the nomination would be interesting - and have a lot more substance than the bogus challenges to Barack Obama's qualifications to be president.
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December 9, 2008
7:10 a.m.
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Beckwith writes:
You Wrote:
By refusing on Monday to hear a lawsuit challenging whether Barack Obama is indeed eligible under the Constitution to become the 44th president, the U.S. Supreme Court should have put to rest the fanciful rumors about the president-elect.
Not so fast Bunky:
Big news for Tuesday, 12/9/08 and Friday 12/12/08. Leo Donfrio's case was denied today, BUT Cort Wrotnowski's case was distributed for conference by all nine SCOTUS Justices this coming Friday morning. Leo's legal arguments were a large bases portion of Cort's. Leo strengthened the arguments in Cort's case, AND both Leo and Cort are heading to the SCOTUS Tuesday to file a supplemental brief further strengthening Cort's case.
This is far from over and will continue until Obama releases his vault-copy birth certificate.
December 9, 2008
7:40 a.m.
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Bmac writes:
Power tends to corrupt and our politicians have shown that they are not immune to its lure. The Constitution was created to protect the people and this country from despots and corruption. Whenever our so called leaders ignore or try to change the Constitution, then we the people must not remain apathetic but be prepared to challenge them in whatever way we can. As for the birth certificate issue, I doubt that there is something to it. However, the people deserve to know the facts and the truth. It would be much easier if the govt. would just start communicating with us instead of acting like they're hiding something.
December 9, 2008
7:44 a.m.
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Ike writes:
No, NO! Don't stop the "Obama has a phony birth certificate" crowd, they are providing entertainment. Besides, they all look cute with the tinfoil pyramid hats and looking up through their sunroofs and windows for the black helicopters.
December 9, 2008
8:53 a.m.
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conniesz writes:
If the state of Hawaii says he was born there, that is good enough for the courts. This is a case where he does not have to prove he was born in Hawaii, the wingnuts must prove he wasn't. Obviously they do not have such proof or they would have submitted it. President-elect Obama should not dignify this stunt with so much as a comment. If there is a case here, let those bringing the case prove he wasn't born in Hawaii. That may be difficult with the state firmly claiming he was.
December 9, 2008
9:07 a.m.
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denverrose15 writes:
Ike: Please don't stop denying that Obama has a problem with the truth. See examples of his change of view on Amendment 2. He says people with legal right to a gun should have nothing to fear from him yet his voting record shows otherwise. So why would we care? It is precisely because he backs off from policies that are not convenient, just as Clinton did. He made policy based on polls and that is what Obama will do until we have all rested on our laurels and then you will see the true Obama come out when we have been lulled by all of his programs, placated and content with trillions of dollars that your children and grandchild are saddled with for years and years to come to be paid. That complacency will cost you dearly because you didn't believe he is capable of anything but the best for this country. Sleep on until the rude awakening.
December 9, 2008
11:10 a.m.
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peterpi writes:
Rose of Denver, all of your claims were made in one form or another during the campaign. The voters chose Obama anyway.
I think the "Obama's an (illegal? space?) alien" crowd are sore losers who can't face the fact McCain lost and/or who have serious issues with people with more melanin in their skin cells than the Obama-hating crowd has.
One poster here on the RMN website won't be satisfied until Obama releases his birth certificate, baptism certificate (for a secular office?), immunization records, transcripts of all classes taken from Pre-school through Post-Graduate, any and all papers submitted during any class taken during that time, all driver's tests, all traffic violations, his entire credit card history, marriage license, adoption records(?), Selective Service registration, all of his multitudinous passports from foreign countries, all college theses, all law review articles, all medical records, the names of all clients any of the law firms he worked for have ever provided services to, and lastly, his "green card".
That's right, his green card. Since he's a citizen of the United States, he doesn't have a green card. And in this poster's mind, I'll bet, the fact he doesn't have a green card is proof he's hiding something.
If Obama provided a tenth of that, no future presidential candidate could ever have his or her privacy respected.
It's up to the "Obama's not natural" crowd to prove -- conclusively beyond a reasonable doubt -- Obama's not a citizen. It's not up to Obama to prove he is.
These people want nothing less than every record of everything Obama has ever done since his birth, so they can then pore over it and nibble him to death with lawsuits for 8 years.
Obama Derangement Syndrome indeed.
December 9, 2008
11:46 a.m.
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koop writes:
"It appears that the phenomenon known as Bush Derangement Syndrome - with unhinged left-wingers willing to believe any scurrilous rumor about the 43rd president - has a mirror image on the right."
So what "scurrilous rumor" has the left been floating about President Bush other than he's incompetent? Sorry, nobody does kooky conspiricy theories like the right.
December 9, 2008
12:50 p.m.
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mstewart35 writes:
Where do these Einsteins come up with the time to perpetrate such silly, high-blown (and ultimately failed) oppositions to the Obama presidency? Even Governor Palin could not possibly consider this a priority. Even with her hubby looking after her brood, She has a life.
Sure, Obama is not a citizen. Ha! You do not get to his age as a bag lady (let alone a US Senator) without having your birth certificate and citizenship verified repeatedly by everyone. Check his marriage records while you’re at it. Is Michelle an alien too?
December 9, 2008
12:56 p.m.
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DougH writes:
WWPBD- What Will Peter Boyles Do....now that the courts have thrown out the case. I am sure he will have to dredge up old copies of the drudge report, or is that drudge up old copies of the dredge report , to find some new rumor to parade around as as a serious topic of discussion.
December 9, 2008
1:13 p.m.
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mmannino writes:
The supreme court has not resolved the controversy. They have simply refused to hear the case on procedural grounds. If Obama and his supporters want to resolve the issue, Obama should produce documents that demonstrate he is a natural born citizen. Otherwise, the controversy will never be resolved. Obama is the most secretive presidential candidate that we have ever had. He has not released many documents about his life that other candidates release.
I do not know if Obama is a natural born citizen. I and many others would like to have strong evidence that he is a natural born citizen, in compliance with the requirements of the US constitution. It does not matter that he received enough votes to be President. The constitution requires that he is a natural born citizen.
December 9, 2008
1:47 p.m.
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peterpi writes:
mmannino, Obama was naturally born, without preservatives or additives, in Hawaii. If McCain had won, and a Leftie questioned his right to serve because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone, I would have said the Leftie was a born loser also.
You don't like his politics? Feel free to speak out.
You think he'll ruin the country? Ditto.
But he's as naturally-born a citizen as Abe Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, and Ronald Reagan were. Nobody asked for their birth certificates, baptism records, etc.
If Joe Lieberman were to have run and won, I'd love to have seen the look on Joe's face when someone demanded his baptism records.
December 9, 2008
4:32 p.m.
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TimeLord writes:
"It's difficult to believe rational adults can take these allegations seriously"
There's actually no sign that the morons spouting this tripe are rational adults, or even mentally competent. They are funny in a deeply stupid and pathetic way, however.
December 9, 2008
6:21 p.m.
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HopiMedicineMan writes:
Republican Hawaiian governor and Palin confidant, Linda Lingle sealed the file. She must be confident Obama was born in Hawaii. That she sealed it suggests something else. I'm satisfied Obama was born on US soil. The matter should probably be dropped. Given that Obama's father was a Kenyan suggests the possibility his son was born overseas. Demanding proof isn't unreasonable. Those seeking proof are surely not "morons spouting this tripe" nor
mentally incompetent, "stupid in a pathetic way," nor wrong to issue a challenge.
December 9, 2008
10:01 p.m.
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peterpi writes:
Obama has produced a copy of the birth certificate, HopiMedicineMan. That's not good enough for the "Birthers". He could produce the genuine, original decaying paper version and show it to a panel of judges, Birthers, and pure virgins dedicated to the gods, and that wouldn't be good enough. The Birthers are already arguiing that where he was born doesn't matter, his birth certificate doesn't matter, what matters was that his father wasn't American. If that gets shot down, they'll argue his mother isn't his real mother. If that gets shot down, they'll argue that since Obama's mother's mother's mother came to the US on metal ships instead of the wooden ships the Founders knew, Obama's mother's mother's birth wasn't "natural". If that gets shot down, they'll argue Obama's DNA. If that gets shot down, ...
HopiMedicineMan, the Birthers will never be satisfied. For reasons we'll never know, and the reasons will be varied, they'll never regard Obama as a legitimate president. No amount of arguing about the Constitution, natural-born vs. unnatural-born, the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate, Indonesian compulsory-education laws, Madrassahs, British citizenship and native Africans etc., ad nauseam will ever convince them.
They don't like his melanin level, they don't like his ears, they don't like the fact a Democratic candidate won, they don't like the fact a Republican war hero lost. They don't want to hear logic.
December 10, 2008
2:44 a.m.
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jrhino writes:
Obama is a pathological liar. Show the original birth certificate. I no longer believe in the federal justice system. Ratings show how everyone feels about the legislature. It is time to begin the revolution.
ps the certificate produced is a computer generated brief. Show us the beef Kenya man.
December 10, 2008
9:10 a.m.
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mmannino writes:
The posters claiming that Obama has proven that he is a natural born citizen are not correct. The state of Hawaii has not demonstrated that he is a natural born citizen either. The Supreme Court is not going to intervene so the controversy will not end. Obama could release the documents to resolve the controversy but he refuses. There are websites that have identified the documents that Obama should release to resolve the controversy. I do not make any claims about this issue except that it has not been resolved.
The leftists in this forum are making their usual smear attacks on those who raise legitimate questions about the documents that Obama should produce to resolve this issue. Personal attacks demonstrate a lack of understanding of the facts and an attempt to silence critics with bogus claims of racism and bias.
December 10, 2008
11:22 a.m.
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rightwingnut writes:
conniesz writes
"the state of Hawaii says he was born there, that is good enough for the courts. This is a case where he does not have to prove he was born in Hawaii, the wingnuts must prove he wasn't. "
Actually you have it backwards. He must prove he meets the requirements put forth in the Constitution. I honestly do not side one way or the other. BUT if he cannot prove he is native born, and if we ignore it, then we might as well throw the entire constitution out. If it is no big deal, then show up with the piece of paper like everyone else.
December 10, 2008
11:48 a.m.
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rg writes:
I heard a caller on Peter Boyles trying to sound intelligent saying that since Obama election is unconstitutional what will his decisions amount to concerning the constitution or some similar drivel. Obama took up residence in an American womb and emerged from it: How can he not be American? Perhaps the next idiocy will contend that the womb was corrupted due to the lack of clergy and therefore Obama is unfit. Richard Grimes: Deicide, slayer of ca ca gods, from which all are made, by flushing.
Deicide Corner: “'Faith' is a fine invention When Gentlemen can see--But Microscopes are prudent In an Emergency.” -- Emily Dickinson
“Why go to the Bible [about woman suffrage]? What question was ever settled by the Bible? What question of theology or any other department? The human mind is greater than any book. The mind sits in judgment on every book. If there be truth in the book, we take it; if error, we discard it. Why refer this to the Bible? In this country, the Bible has been used to support slavery and capital punishment; while in the old countries, it has been quoted to sustain all manner of tyranny and persecution. All reforms are anti-Bible.” -- William Lloyd Garrison
December 10, 2008
11:57 a.m.
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jay writes:
"The state of Hawaii has not demonstrated that he is a natural born citizen either"
at this point in this discussion, considering all the facts that have been presented, this is a lie.
thus, mmannino, you are a liar.
December 10, 2008
12:37 p.m.
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Acemon writes:
So people don't believe Obama's birth certificate. So what? Plenty of people don't believe we landed on the moon, but we don't give them any credence. Why should we be any different with the anti-Obama conspiracy crowd?
December 10, 2008
1:38 p.m.
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FCCG writes:
Folks this issue should have come up long ago. Article II Section 1 of the Constitution states, "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President". No one is saying that he isn't a citizen, the question is what does it mean to be natural born. The Govenator was born in Austria, and everyone including himself has said that he is not able to be President, even though he is a citizen.
The Court should, whatever the outcome decide what is meant by natural born. Article I Section three does not for instance, require that Senators be natural born. So why is there a difference? As far as the case which was turned down goes, I believe that it calls into question whether the Constitution allows a person with dual citizenship (which Obama has the ability to obtain, if he doesn't already have it) to be President. This is a legitimate question of Constitutional law, not necessarily a political one. It is unfortunate that this hasn't been touched earlier, but you should do the right thing even if you do it late.
December 10, 2008
3:34 p.m.
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anderson writes:
The RMN editors are right. But we should ask why one of their regular columnists (Mike Rosen) did not give the birth allegations a rest on his radio program. Can we acknowledge that the denizens of talk radio (including Rosen and Boyles) engage in purposeful misinformation, and that there are plenty of fools out there ready and willing to swallow it, and argue nonsense to death because they heard it on the radio?
December 10, 2008
8:39 p.m.
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mstewart35 writes:
Instead of being so true to the constitution, why aren't we just true to ourselves? Does it matter to us that the election of the President Elect may be nullified by a phrase in an ancient document?
For those of you who hesitate, the answer is "no, it matters to us that the President elect is a Black Democrat" (whether we are like him or unlike him). Neither does the ancient document itself (the Constitution) really matter, on a gut level, to most of us.
Let's get to the real and personal, rather than the constitutional, reasons why we think Barack Obama should or should not be the most powerful elected official in the world. He was elected by a landslide majority vote. Do we respect the will of the majority of America's citizens, or not?
December 11, 2008
9:51 a.m.
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mmannino writes:
jay,
You are misinformed on both of your assertions. I am not a liar and the state of Hawaii has not authenticated Obama's place of birth. Lying is in the intentional act of deception. My statement is based on analysis (by others) that indicates Obama has not authenticated his birth location. I have also read analysis by others indicating that he has demonstrated his eligibility. After careful consideration of both sides, I think that he has not provided the appropriate documents and no authentication has been performed. The courts have dismissed the case for lack of standing. The courts have not ruled that Obama meets the natural born citizen qualifications.
Obama does not want to resolve the issue. I am not sure why he does not produce the documents that would resolve the issue. He will not be forced to demonstrate that he is a natural born citizen. The Constitution has this requirement but the enforcement is left to the Congress. With a Democratic Congress, this issue will not be raised. In this respect, the issue is dead. Just because Congress will not press this issue, does not answer the question.
December 11, 2008
10:32 a.m.
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Spencer writes:
what are they going to have to talk about on Peter Boils show?
December 11, 2008
12:29 p.m.
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Acemon writes:
mmannino wrote:
"I do not know if Obama is a natural born citizen. I and many others would like to have strong evidence that he is a natural born citizen, in compliance with the requirements of the US constitution."
You don't know if George W. Bush is a natural born citizen, either. Would you be kind enough to produce a certified copy of his birth certificate? I don't think he's ever shown it.
December 11, 2008
12:32 p.m.
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anderson writes:
I'm sure he'll find something to salve the salivations of his audience. Villains are easy to come by.
December 11, 2008
1:38 p.m.
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JeffT writes:
“If he were not a citizen, don't you think at least one of his campaign opponents would have found the proof to make that charge stick?”
He must be a citizen because none of his campaign opponents have proven him otherwise? Your use of the word “if” seriously weakens your argument. Curious that you imply that it is the duty of Obama’s campaign opponents to ensure he is legally qualified to hold office. Is there any way to interest the press in the law?
“Even if the facts were murky, however, what possible point is there to raising them at this time? Does anyone seriously believe a court is going to try to bar from office the candidate chosen as president by a clear majority of voters? What do these zealots want, civil disorder?”
The only reason the facts are being questioned at this time is that they weren’t answered conclusively earlier. If Obama is indeed a natural-born citizen, he should prove it. If he is a natural-born citizen no court will need to bar him from office, will it? We “zealots” do not want civil disorder. If fact, it is lawful order we desire. If would be nice if the press were to lend us a hand.
December 11, 2008
2:15 p.m.
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anderson writes:
"The only reason the facts are being questioned at this time is that they weren’t answered conclusively earlier."
No. Some people just don't understand when they are being led around by the nose.
"There's a suc*ker born every minute"-
attributed to PT Barnum
"There is no crowd of adults dumber than a talk radio crowd"--
anderson
December 11, 2008
3:43 p.m.
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Ike writes:
"DITTO!" anderson. That is the best line I've heard in many moons; thank you.
December 12, 2008
9:43 p.m.
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WFW writes:
Good grief, the sour grapes just keep getting more un-appeasing. For crying out loud neocons, you lost the election! Get over it and move on. OOPPSS, I forgot, conspiracy theory's and assinine whining is all ya got left. Sorry, keep on spewing.
December 13, 2008
8:35 a.m.
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JeffT writes:
No, doubting that Obama is a natural-born citizen does not make me a suc*ker. I would be a suc*ker if I expected the MSM to investigate his status or the courts to force him to prove his legal status … and I don’t. Perhaps Barry Soetoro will be our first Indonesian president which would also make him our first illegal alien president. Then, who would the suc*kers be?
December 13, 2008
11:23 a.m.
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JeffT writes:
Obama takes office. He announces the new, New Deal, mortgage relief, universal health care and college tuition assistance. Then, He saves the car companies and balances the budgets of all 50 states. Then, information is discovered proving Obama is not an American citizen. Seems Barry never renounced his Indonesian citizenship prior to turning 18. He found being a foreigner exotic. He applied to Occidental and Columbia as a foreign national. Obama is impeached and removed from office. Biden becomes president. There is rioting in the streets both here and abroad as “Citizens of the World” unite to express their displeasure that “their” president was removed from office, legality be damned. Biden has a Rodney King moment: ”Can’t we all just get along?” Hillary runs in 2012. Unfortunately for her, Michelle, who really is an American citizen, runs also. In an emotional, unstoppable tide, Michelle crushes Hillary in the primaries and then her moderate Republican opponent. Michelle swears Barack in at his naturalization. She appoints him Secretary of Soul Repair. A Constitutional crisis occurs that could have been avoided had the press had the courage to question their beloved, The One. Is this fantasy? Surely ... a Democratic Congress would never impeach Obama.
December 13, 2008
3:42 p.m.
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Spencer writes:
where do these people come from? Remind me of the 9/11 conspiracy theories. Nutjobs all
December 14, 2008
2:54 a.m.
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clyde writes:
It's easy. All that is required is one piece of paper that lists the hostipal and the attending physicians. Why spend one million dollars to block producing what I had to produce to get a driver's license. A Certificate of Live Birth is way different that a Birth Certificate.
While he is hiding everything, how did he pay for college? Did he get aid as a foreign national?
See how not answering a simple question leads to distrust and conspiracy theories? Obama himself could shut all this down, but he won't. Why? Smoke = Fire.
The Rezko dealings and the land deals are just starting to bubble up. No administration in history has been this scandal-plagued before the inauguration. It promises to just get better.