ROSEN: UAW an albatross for Big 3

By Mike Rosen, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published December 5, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.

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December 5, 2008

4:20 a.m.

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Brix57 writes:

Perhaps this is the last death throes of the time when Americans were paid a living wage in a great manufacturing country. Now, the largest employer is WalMart and the government in a service country, where manufacturing is outsourced to other countries. We don't make things anymore, just push the paper around.
Many of the benefits that many now see as normal were wrought out from union labor. Benefits that have seen declines in the service economy we are in now.
December 5, 2008

5:33 a.m.

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DakotaPlainsman writes:

What union dominated industry is succeeding in America? Steel?... gone. Airlines?.. in the gov't soup line. Postal?... FEDEX and UPS are laughing to the bank with USPS' failure to compete. Teaching?... US way behind other countries and only surviving (not succeeding) because of a gov't induced monopoly. Auto?.... the difference between the "foreign" auto makers that are holding their own and the "Big 3"... it's unions.
December 5, 2008

6:10 a.m.

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taoistblockhead writes:

Rosen conveniently doesn't mention the health care costs assumed by American businesses and industry, costs that help create pricing and operating disparities between Detroit auto makers and their counterparts in Japan, Korea, Germany, etc.

The wealth and quality of life disparities between American workers and American CEOs are the real elephants in the room. The effects and results of unbridled savage capitalsim espoused by Rosen and his ilk are actually creating an America that is a mirror image of oligarchic Russia.

Savage capitalism has given us the second great depression and ultimately a worthless currency in the dollar. Never mind that the overall quality of life in America continues to decline - as long as Rosen can get his life is good.
December 5, 2008

6:26 a.m.

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Mike_In_Hartsel writes:

Brix57 - the largest employer is the US Government, the largest retailer is Wal-Mart. And this country still makes plenty of things but you simply chose not to see them (start with Boeing). Unions have long been corrupt and only interested in their own survival, not the good of their members. That's was union membership is in a lengthy death spiral, not the service sector.

DakotaPlainsman - UPS is union and has always been. They are private sector competing against USPS: no contest there. Don't know about FedEx.

taoistblockhead - you are a raving Marxist and talking to you is a waste of time.

The unions are only part of the problem. Detroit Management has been bad since the 1960s. Let them fail and they will be replaced with something better and more competitive. Give them money and they will remain bums.
December 5, 2008

6:37 a.m.

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Michael writes:

Every other industry in America also has to bear healthcare costs for its employees as the automakers do. That is how our system is set up. Microsoft, GE, Halliburton, Intel, Google, United Technologies, IBM, Dell, Apple, and so on. They all compete with their global counterparts - and most succeed quite well. Why is it that Detroit cannot do what others do?
Unions have given us many great things over the decades but they have become bloated and for the most part, obsolete. That is why only 11% of American workers are in a union. If there was a need and a demand, unions would fill it. Most companies offer a fair market wage and benefits to go with it. If the UAW cannot see this and see how they cannot have 1965 comp packages in a 2008 world, then Detroit is doomed.
December 5, 2008

7:37 a.m.

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Dub writes:

OK children, it's time for our morning quiz!!!
(1) How many industries that are union dominated, have seen a UPTURN in the last 10 years?
(2) How many programs that the UN started have succeeded?
(3) How many Anti-Poverty programs that the US Government started has succeeded?
(4) How much money has the US Government spent on eradicating poverty in the last 25 years? ( To the nearest $10 BILLION)

Answers: 1-3 = NONE
4 = $2,300,000,000.00 (give or take a few hundred million)

And what can we learn from this quiz?
(A) Government programs that spend money don't work.
(B) Government programs that spend money are primarily designed to re-elect the authors.
(C) A union that accumulates power for the sake of power destroys the industry.
(D) Stupid people in large numbers can destroy ANYTHING.
Class dismissed!
December 5, 2008

8:09 a.m.

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jacka writes:

Too bad at the end of the day the Unions' need to survive will kill these comapnies. Look forward to buying Japan or Grmn cars unless the UAW disolves ... and even then with the mentality of these CEOs will drive them to the junk yard.

Like airlines, if they have a union do not buy their bonds or equity shares.
December 5, 2008

9:44 a.m.

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mmannino writes:

Unions are nothing more than government sanctioned labor cartels increasing costs, decreasing quality, and lowering employment levels. Unions huge donations to Democrats are tantamount to bribes so that Democrats will pass legislation that will force companies to deal with outrageous union demands. The mob maintains a monopoly through physical intimidation and violence when necessary. Unions maintain a monopoly through the political process and government coercion.

The trouble with unions is that given a choice consumers and investors will not deal with unions. Consumers will not buy products with lower quality and higher cost. Investors will not provide funds to companies with militant unions. Without capital and consumers, union dominated companies are doomed without government restrictions on consumer and investor choices.

I will never buy an auto from the union dominated Big 3. I urge everyone to boycott union dominated companies.
December 5, 2008

10:24 a.m.

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B1 writes:

Where did he blame the working man? Typical of whiny liberals to blame management.

I think you should answer Dakota's question:

"What union dominated industry is succeeding in America?"
December 5, 2008

10:30 a.m.

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Justin_Credible writes:

The need for unions passed long ago. They are nothing more than the labor mafia. There should be no need for unions in any free market.
December 5, 2008

10:44 a.m.

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TC writes:

I worked as a tooling engineer at Ford's Michigan Truck assembly plant from 1996 to 2002. We made Expeditions and Navigators. We made one every 70 seconds. 24 Hours a day 7 days a week. Ford made between $10K and $12K profit for each one that went off the final line. MTP was the most profitable manufacturing facility in history. It was responsible for $5 Billion profit for Ford in 1999. Had MTP been it's own company, it would have been 50 on the Fortune 500.

There was one simple reason for this success. We built what the constomer couldn't get enough of, and was willing to pay a premium for.

Times have changed.
December 5, 2008

11 a.m.

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Coffee_Mug writes:

Times have definitely changed. The UAW time has passed as well. There is no need to throw more money at the problem and hope it works out. Let them file chapter 11 or whatever they feel they need to do. It seems the consumer is finally getting in a word on this.
December 5, 2008

11:20 a.m.

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flimflam writes:

Wanting the big 3 to file for bankruptcy is about nothing more than smashing the Unions. My question is why we can spend a trillion to bail out wallstreet fat cats, but we cant spend 25 billion to save millions of middle class jobs, pensions, and healthcare?
December 5, 2008

11:45 a.m.

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jay writes:

of the american companies you listed, michael...how many mfg their goods in the united states?

google?

kind of puts your rhetoric in perspective, no?

"When industry CEOs appeared with hats in hand before Congress recently pleading for yet another government loan they were initially denied and sent home to prepare a business plan for future congressional consideration. This was part of the charade, so the politicians wouldn't be seen as an easy touch. But the fix is in. Sooner or later, a bailout is coming."

i'm not sure what rosen's point here is besides spouting yet another of his trademark conspiracy theories...this time about how "the fix is in".

what was wrong with the dems in congress demanding some accountability from the big 3 and refusing to partake in the republican tradition of rubber stamping corporate welfare packages?

i loved the fact that the dems treated the auto industry like perspective borrowers who weren't presenting a good plan to pay the country back the money they were loaned...you have to ask....why does rosen think this is a bad idea?

or are we back to his tinfoil hat conspiracy theories?
December 5, 2008

11:52 a.m.

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Sharpaxe writes:

Mike, you missed one point that I believe was made on your show earlier this week. The Big Three are not the only US auto makers. You have to include Toyota, Nissan, Hundai -- all of whom make fine products in the absence of the UAW. They have headquarters in other countries, but there are quite a few US citizens and other residents being paid well for delivering a day's work for a day's pay.
December 5, 2008

12:11 p.m.

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pak writes:

The Big 3 have always had small, fuel efficient vehicles on the lots. Until now, nobody wanted to buy them. Hybrids are an over priced play toy for the rich, that represent a horrible investment and a terrible economic purchase decision. They simply cost too much and never pay off.
Senator Schumer (NY) says the big three need to be forced to make electric vehicles. I can't wait to buy a "schumer mobile". How will the government force people to buy these vehicles? Do they think this is the USSR?
We are in a world economy and the UAW has 2 very simple choices. Change... or die!
The other 12 companys building cars in the USA with American workers will be pleased to pick up the slack, thank you very much.
December 5, 2008

12:19 p.m.

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jay writes:

good point sharpaxe...which is why in 2007 and on the books now are agreements to bring UAW wages down to $45 an hour...on level with the other auto mfg's in the country.

sounds like a step in the right direction, no?
December 5, 2008

1:15 p.m.

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mmannino writes:

Conservativeslayer,

Walmart is not a welfare queen. I am not aware of any special tax breaks or subsidies that Walmart receives. Walmart pays market compensation to its employees. No one is forced to work at Walmart. If the left is successful at forcing unionization on Walmart, the result will be much lower employment levels, higher prices, and fewer stores.

The unions had the major role in the auto makers problems. The unions coerced outrageous compensation levels and stifling work rules. The auto executives took the path of least resistance in dealing with the outrageous demands of the UAW. The executives had two choices: capitulate or put the company's future on the line with a crippling strike. The outrageous union compensation levels have drained vital dollars from research and development.

The UAW thinks that you should be forced to subsidize their outrageous retirement compensation. They want to force you to pay much higher prices for personal transportation. They want direct taxpayer subsidies of their retirement compensation.
December 5, 2008

1:19 p.m.

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Michael writes:

jay - There are many US manufacturing companies that manufacture right here - IN THE USA - and thrive. The difference? The UAW. Some are union, some aren't. General Electric, Caterpillar, John Deere, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, United Technologies, Intel, Dell, IBM, Pella, Medtronic, Invacare, Trane, York, American Standard, WIKA, Sealy, Hubbell, and on and on and on. The list is too long to type. Foreign based auto manufacturers and other companies are here too - BMW, Honda, Toyota, Mercedez-Benz, ABB, Seimens, Sony, Toshiba, Bayer, Astra-Zeneca, etc. You probably have no clue how much manufacturing is done here - do you? 14,500,000 Americans work in US manufacturing. We produce more today in gross dollar value then we ever have - with less people because of automation, better processes, and higher productivity from those that do work in manufacturing.
US manufacturing today is transforming much like US farming did starting 100 years ago when 70% (+/-) of the population was involved in food production in some way. Today that number is 2% - but we produce more food than ever before.....how is that done? We will continue to manufacture in the US...with less people. That is progress. That is inevitable.
December 5, 2008

1:43 p.m.

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jay writes:

michael, i asked a very simple question...one which you avoided.

the list of companies you provided has consistently and persistently shipped their mfg overseas and will continue to do so.

sounds like you're a numbers guy so i think we can frame this in a matter you'll understand.

do you know how many american mfg jobs have been lost in the last decade?
December 5, 2008

2 p.m.

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Romanesco writes:

According to the UAW (http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02...): "In 2006 a typical UAW-represented assembler at GM earned $27.81 per hour of straight-time labor".

$27.81 an hour? Wow! That's far beyond "livable" wage. I wish I made that just for assembling things. That's more than some medical professionals make.

They also pay workers that are unemployed: http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact03...
December 5, 2008

2:03 p.m.

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ILoveChipotle writes:

What is wrong with letting these companies go into chapter 11? People might not buy cars from them for a while, but how is that different from the current situation? Chapter 11 would allow them to reorganize, consolidate, and perhaps become profitable again. It would be tough in the near term, but ultimately it would save the companies.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/...
December 5, 2008

2:12 p.m.

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Marshdale writes:

Hear we go again. Bash the patriotic workers of America. It's Unons, unions, unions. That is all I ever hear. What a bunch of BS. Remember folks it was these union workers who build the products that help protect America. It's the union workers who fight and continue to fight for a better minimum wage for all workers. Contrary to popular belief, the last UAW areement created a 2 tier wage system. New hires start at $14.00 per hour and the average UAW worker makes about $26.00 an hour, $54,000.00 a year. Not a bad wage but it is certainly not one that spoils them or allows them to retire a wealthy person. Why is it that so many of you want to crap on the American worker? The guy who has broken his back for the lifestyle many of you enjoy. It is the American worker that is the life blood of this country not the corporation.

Just how many union workers are responsible for design, warranty, gas mileage, advertizing campaigns etc... They build what they are told to build. Nothing more, nothing less. If these car companies file bankruptcy who will want to buy a car from a bankrupt company. How good do you think your warranty will be then? It is unions who preserve fair treatment by employers. It is unions who actually spend the wages they earn and buy the products they make. These people are as loyal of Americans as you will find anywhere. We need to rethink our role as Americans and start standing up for the American worker, more so now than ever before.

When times were fat for the auto makers is when they should have been reinvesting and retooling for the future to make products that are profitable, but NO, they had to jump in bed with oil companies. Keep mileage standards down and continue producing vehicles they can't sell now. This is a management issue. The unions did not cause this.
December 5, 2008

2:25 p.m.

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Marshdale writes:

Rosen tries to compare the airline bankruptcies to the Auto maker. I have news for you Mikey. People don't buy jet airplanes corporations do. Auto makers are not selling a service they are selling a product. The most expensive product people will buy next to their homes. One they hope will last 10 or 15 years.

I'm glad you got yours, Mikey. I'm sure you worked hard for it. More power to you. I'm still working two jobs and trying to make ends meat, and I'm a college graduate with a degree in earth sciences, geology to be specific. Yes I do agree that people can make their own opportunities, but those who succeed often have some great luck come their way or circumstances happen to be just right. I'm not complaining. I like both of my jobs. The point is, all I ever hear you conservatives praise is the company/corporation. It's never the worker.

I still say you are a Napoleanic little jerk Mikey.
December 5, 2008

2:32 p.m.

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Michael writes:

jay - You are correct about many of the companies I mentioned opening up plants overseas - as well as Ford, GM, and Chrysler have done. Do you know why? Because that is where their international markets are. Few people know that the "Big 3" are doing quite well overseas. They make and have made small, fuel efficient (and profitable!) cars for many years that they sell in Europe, Asia, Australia, and South America. NO UAW! I do not know how many jobs have been invloved with US manufacturing locating overseas but I do know that for every job sent overseas there are more jobs that come here. All the foreign companies that I mentioned are "insourcing" (from our perspective) more jobs than we are outsourcing. This is the new global economy. I do know that at least 6 million jobs have been insourced over the last 16 years or so - manufacturing and service. You cannot bit#@ about outsourced jobs and also have insourced jobs - it cuts both ways. Companies build plants and offices to be near their foreign markets to serve them better and also lower transport costs when it is practical and cost effective to do so.
This is from 4 years ago but the basics are still the same. Have a read: http://www.heritage.org/research/trad...
December 5, 2008

2:46 p.m.

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Marshdale writes:

These car companies build cars overseas and use labor that is about 1/10th the cost of US labor, but yet us consumers see no price break. Make no mistake about it. The car companies are in it for the stock holder. They really don't care about workers or anybody else.
December 5, 2008

2:55 p.m.

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jay writes:

what's wrong with letting them go into bankruptcy?

well...i think this would be a good exercise for you, chipotle.

what do YOU think would happen if the big 3 go bankrupt?

specifically...how many jobs do you think would be lost...including all ancillary industries here in the states and abroad. what about lost tax revenues?

you following me here, chipotle?

i would hope at some point the lightbulb would go on and you'd see that The Legacy is going to be painful.

we may just have to pick the shorter of two paths through the thorn bushes.

"Because that is where their international markets are"

michael i'm surprised you're loath to acknowledge that the united states has been hemorrhaging manufacturing jobs because companies can significantly lower their cost of goods sold by moving those operations overseas to countries without the labor standards we have here.

regardless...it seems you've got some homework on some of the numbers as you're mistaken about the influx of comparable jobs.
December 5, 2008

3:01 p.m.

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Marshdale writes:

Conservative Slayer; You are so correct. Why is it that corporate welfare is ok and welfare that feeds people is not? Why do some Americans care more about the corporation than they do people? I'm sure mahny of these conservatives who subscribe to this philosophy are "GOOD CHRISTIANS." I will never get that.
It's not just Wall Mart. You should see the concessions that were given by Jefferson County and the City of Wheatridge to Cabellas to entice them into building here. Jeffco's budget is in shambles, yet we gave 10 million dollars to help build that interchange at Highway 58 and I-70. I don't think that there is any way we are going to see that money come back either. I believe Jeffco also gave them a huge property tax break. It is at the point now in this country where corporations hold municipalities hostage. This is wrong and needs to be put to an end. Hell, Jeffco's Road and Bridge dept. is sacrificing so many needed road repairs now that in ten years the roads in this County will be almost not repairable. They will have to be completely reconstructed, at tax payer expence of course. Yet, we can afford to build an interchange for Cabellas. What a joke.
December 5, 2008

3:51 p.m.

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AngryDragon writes:

TC writes: There was one simple reason for this success. We built what the customer couldn't get enough of, and was willing to pay a premium for.

Times have changed.

I agree with you on this TC however what also needs to be pointed out is the poor decision to have 40+ versions of the same vehicle being made under 9 different vehicle brands. Also I would say that while your particular plant was very efficient, they were only efficient at making one type of vehicle. The main problem facing the Big 3 is that they can not swiftly change their manufacturing plants to make different vehicles. Ford has set up plants in South America where they are able to make 5 different vehicles. That is the type of technology we need here but the reason it isn't is that the UAW has fought that type of innovation. They need to have one employee screwing in the stereo antenna for every type of vehicle being made (can we say inefficiency?).

What union dominated industry is succeeding in America? - answer is government! They have grown exponentially over the last 8-16 years. I'd say that is quite a success for a union enterprise!
December 5, 2008

3:52 p.m.

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ILoveChipotle writes:

jay - I already posted what would happen if they went bankrupt, I think in the long run it is the best thing for them to do.
December 5, 2008

4:18 p.m.

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krvus writes:

Hey ILoveChipotle,

You'll never get anything but questions from good ol jay.
Just like a 2 year old- whats this, what's that. Why, where, etc....
December 5, 2008

8:46 p.m.

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jay writes:

"People might not buy cars from them for a while, but how is that different from the current situation?"

is that your complete understanding of the ramifications of allowing the big 3 to go bankrupt, chipotle?

that's all i could find...is there anything else you posted?
December 5, 2008

11:10 p.m.

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InEssence writes:

Why does the government loan this money at below market rates? The money should be loaned on interest bearing warrants that have low strike prices. Then, if the management can't deliver, most of the equity of the company flows to government at very little cost. The equity can then be sold to the highest bidder. If that doesn't work, sell the assets in pieces. These companies have enough assets to make that plan work. When the money is loaned at such a low rate, it looks like a conspiracy.
December 6, 2008

8:20 a.m.

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carbon05 writes:

Somebody is lying here. If as Mike is saying that each union members costs somewhere around $150,000 per year the big 3 will not survive. I believe much of those costs are needed to pay for ridiculous benefits such as the job banks and retirees. I have heard that UAW workers make around $80,000. If they are making $80,000 you know middle managers and white collar jobs are also making at least as much. Upper management and executives are also being paid exorbitant wages. In order to survive everyone is going to have to take a legitimate serious hit (not some bogus smoke and mirrors crap). If they all refuse to to work together they deserve to die.
December 6, 2008

8:33 a.m.

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spencerr writes:

"Anyone that shops at Walmart, is ANTI-AMERICAN in my book."

The economy, in its most simplistic form, is an interaction between consumers and producers, with the little guy acting as both a consumer and labor for the producers.

If you hate Walmart and think its shoppers are un-American, then you are ignoring the half of the equation regarding consumers. With cheap, highly competitive prices, consumers' level of well-being is increased, even if their wages from producing labor for companies are not great. For INSTANCE, LOOK AT WHAT WALMART HAS DONE TO THE PRICE OF MANY PERSCRIPTION DRUGS.

Regarding the welfare of mainstream Americans, in essence, half the equation is good wages. The other half, good (or cheap) prices. Walmart has done more for the American consumer (aka laborer) than government and unions ever have.

And they are not a net receiver of taxes, so they are not on welfare...you are being sneaky if you insinuate that just because they get tax breaks, they are on welfare. Welfare means net tax receiver, and they are not a net tax receiver.

And jay, manufacturer jobs are leaving the U.S. and being replaced by service jobs. If you look back at the fifties and sixties and think you can paint that era as a better time (minus the current recession) for our economy as a whole simply based on the fact that Detroit was booming, then you are mistaken. People do plenty well right now sitting behind a computer in their office or providing some sort of service.
December 6, 2008

9:25 a.m.

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BMat writes:

Rosen -

You gotta be kidding me dude.

"With the Democrats soon to be in control of the federal government, it's not likely they'll throw this Democrat-dominated geographical subdivision to the free-market wolves or sacrifice one of their party's most influential longtime political allies and fundraisers, the United Auto Workers union."

How is it that Mr. Rosen is able to give credit for the economic boom we experienced during the Clinton years to anybody but the Clinton administration (i.e. the tech boom, republican legislators, etc.) but the current downturn is blamed on the party which won an election but has not yet even assended to power?

BTW Mike, UAW workers earn only 3 dollars more per hour than auto workers who work at the union free shops owned by European and Japanese auto makers in the US.

How does a $3/hour difference in wages amount to an albatross but corporate fat-cats travelling around on coprporate jets to beg for more taxpayer dollars isn't?

Aren't the CEO's that are begging for this bailout a bunch of honest hard working Republicans just like you?

The reason the big three are going broke is b/c those pesky American auto workers demanded healthcare benefits. That should not be the companies obligation anyway.

This is the problem you have when you view the world through "rosen-colored glasses." What a buffoon.
December 6, 2008

9:35 a.m.

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BMat writes:

"Other companies - like U.S. airlines - have emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcies leaner and better able to compete and survive."

Rosen's shining example of corporate sucess in our free market economy is the oft-bailed out and still teetering US airline industry?!

I'm laughing so hard that I just threw up a little bit in the back of my mouth.
December 6, 2008

9:55 a.m.

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BMat writes:

In a Nov. 21 letter, Democratic leaders Sen. Harry Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi have already told the Big Three just what their business plan should say. Notable provisions include a ban on shareholder dividends and "excessive executive compensation," and mandate the production of greener cars. While the letter specifically calls for "top automobile executives making significant sacrifices," no such demand is made of the UAW. In fact, the union isn't even mentioned in the letter.
__________

Rosen you gotta be kidding me dude.

The CEO's showed up w/no business plan at all. They brought only a sob story about how badly they've been victimized and put upon by the big, mean old workers the CEO's themselves chose to hire. They also blamed the banks. It was the corporate equivalent of the tattered carboard sign with crude magic marker scrawlings held by pan handlers that regularly staff the off ramps to local freeways.

The Democrat's demanded a business plan and consequently provided guidelines that were important to them - naturally!

The Republicans did not make a similar demand they just ran to the editorial pages of papers like this to perpetuate the old "CEO's as poor, unsuspecting victims" story.

Rather pathetic isn't it Mike? The guys who double parked their private jets are the real vicitms here?! Absurd!
December 6, 2008

8:08 p.m.

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mrfxx writes:

Michael writes: Every other industry in America also has to bear healthcare costs for its employees as the automakers do. That is how our system is set up. Microsoft, GE, Halliburton, Intel, Google, United Technologies, IBM, Dell, Apple, and so on. They all compete with their global counterparts - and most succeed quite well. Why is it that Detroit cannot do what others do?

The difference is that those companies listed have cut their costs by offshoring literally hundreds of thousands of jobs - often to countries with some form of national health care! Were you aware that India, which IBM is presently offshoring tens of thousands of jobs to actually takes better care of its workforce than the US does? It's only cheaper to offshore to India because the cost of living is so much less and ironically since the big push to offshore in IT, Indians are now making about 85% of what a US-based worker makes despite the fact that companies are replacing decades of experience with months of experience. The The intriguing part of IT offshoring is that it appears to lead directly to another problem: data theft (based on a 4 year Verizon study, 73 percent of the data breaches were the result of outside sources - including contracting out work)! Feel free to blame the vendors if your information is compromised because of offshoring.

The most intriguing part about the whole economic mess is that while Mike and the anti-union crowd are more than willing to whine about rank and file workforce pay and benefits, they neglect to mention that corporations LEGALLY underfunded retirement plans and now are dumping those underfunded plans on the PBGC or that often union members took pay cuts when the companies were in trouble based on the promise of those defined benefits plans being there for their retirement. Who has EVER heard of a retired (or even fired) member of upper management not getting a PLATINUM parachute (golden parachutes are so 20th century)? While I understand that upper management in the US is ONLY making 200x-800x what the rank and file makes (in Europe and Asia, their pay would be 10x-50x), since it was their lousy decisions that put the companies in trouble why do those managers/CEOs end up with enough that their children and grandchildren never have to work? Shouldn't upper management have to face consequences too?
December 7, 2008

9:19 a.m.

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KelcyCo writes:

It may well be that the UAW contributed to the problems the Big Three have today from a historical perspective but let`s be realistic and acknowledge that huge profits over the years allowed the companies to negotiate and agree to these large paychecks and benefits and to not tie these to the gross profits of the companies so that as those went down the pay and benefits would follow.

It is easy to say just toss this all out with the bathwater but it is not quite as easy as all that. The UAW is not just an amorphous entity but many, many real people with real families, real lives, real bills. They own things (homes, cars, college bills, etc) that are predicated on their real income today and not on half that income. How many out there can say they can just take a fifty percent pay cut and continue to exist as they as they do today. I know I can`t and I save 20 percent of my annual income. These auto workers have a retirement program that they built the rest of their savings and investments around. This is what we all do. You just decide to cut everything in half and you will likely drive many of them into foreclosures and bankruptcies which just exacerbates the problem as we continue to spin into the ground. It would be almost the same as just shutting the doors to the companies and firing them all.

We all have a part in any decisions made today. These companies are so huge that they will set precedent for other huge companies to potentially do the same thing and base it on the same rationale. The federal and state governments can then follow suit as well and base it on trying to save the economy as a whole. There is nothing to stop government entities from cutting pay and benefits or to cutting retiree pay and benefits as well.

This is a mega problem and we need to think about how all the pieces play into each other. It is not quite as cut and dry as these press stories and sound bites make it seem.
December 7, 2008

6:03 p.m.

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jay writes:

"And jay, manufacturer jobs are leaving the U.S. and being replaced by service jobs."

this completely inaccurate.

the us is also outsourcing service jobs.

talked to anyone in customer service in india lately, spencer jr.

like michael, sounds like you need to do some homework on this issue before commenting further.
December 9, 2008

5:10 p.m.

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mytwosense writes:

Mike Rosen, how much money do you get paid to bash American workers? I'm pretty sure it's more than $150K a year, and all you do is sit on your tail and rail against people who are actually working for their living. I also doubt you've ever broken out into even a light sweat in your life.

By the way, the average UAW worker isn't making anything close to $150K, but you keep repeating that lie. And the GOP wonders why their brand is trashed!
December 9, 2008

5:17 p.m.

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mytwosense writes:

Brix57 writes: "Perhaps this is the last death throes of the time when Americans were paid a living wage in a great manufacturing country."

Yep, and to the sound of applause by Mike Rosen and his ilk. God forbid someone wearing a blue collar actually makes a wage his or her family can live decently on.

Keep egging on that class war, Rosen!
December 11, 2008

2:12 p.m.

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ollie writes:

Rosen's white collar is on fire again. Can't have the working class have anything like he has.

Home › Opinion › Opinion Columns & Blogs

ROSEN: UAW an albatross for Big 3

By Mike Rosen, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published December 5, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.

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