Sunday liquor no boon
Retailers aren't seeing anticipated revenue upside of state law that allows seven-day sales
By Katie Kerwin McCrimmon, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published December 1, 2008 at 6:42 p.m.
Photo by Dennis Schroeder / The Rocky
Sam Naoum stocks his shelves at his liquor store in Lakewood on Monday. Naoum is planning to close on Sundays after the football season because he misses being with his family.
Sale of liquor on Sundays in Colorado has boosted convenience for customers, but retailers say they're not seeing the promised hike in revenues.
"We are spreading six days to seven days," Sam Naoum, owner of Spirit Wine and Liquor in Lakewood, said of his sales. "It's not worth it."
Once the football season ends, Naoum plans to close on Sundays. He wants to spend time with his wife and two children on weekends.
"I know I will lose sales, but I will win my family and my family time. That's more important to me," Naoum said.
Sunday sales haven't boosted revenues either at giant retailer Daveco Liquors in Thornton, which Guinness World Records bills as the "world's largest liquor store."
"Sundays just stole business from Saturday. That's all it's done," said Ted Sutton, manager of Daveco.
Sutton doesn't mind Saturdays being a bit calmer at their store, which stocks 9,000 wines and 900 beers. But he acknowledges that being open on Sundays costs the company more.
When lawmakers passed the Sunday liquor law this year, analysts with the Legislative Council estimated Sunday liquor sales would boost revenues by $4 million in the first year and $6 million the year after that.
So far, with only three months of data, revenues were down this September over September 2007. August revenues increased somewhat over the prior August, and July revenues jumped significantly over July of last year.
Consumption of alcohol is up overall in the first three months since the law went into effect on July 1, according to the Colorado Department of Revenue. But the increase has not been dramatic. As predicted, sales of 3.2 beer have declined, while consumption of full-strength beer is up.
The year-to-year numbers don't tell the whole story. The economic downturn is hitting many retailers hard. It's difficult to tell whether Sunday sales might have caused a bigger surge in sales had the market not crashed.
"There is no way to know from the tax figures alone if people are drinking more to drown their sorrows because the economy stinks or if there are more people able to buy liquor because of Sunday sales," said Mark Couch, spokesman for the state revenue department.
For small retailers, the outlook is grim.
Dust is gathering on expensive wines and beers as customers shift to cheaper alternatives. Champagne sales are stalled. Some businesses and individuals who, in the past, have put in large orders for holiday parties are cutting back or canceling celebrations altogether.
Naoum said it's hard to sort out whether the poor economy or Sunday sales are to blame for lackluster revenues.
"There's no way to figure it out," Naoum said. "I don't know if it's because of the economy or whether we're slow because Sundays are no good."
Originally from Syria, Naoum moved to Colorado from California 18 years ago. He liked the liquor business because he could have Sundays free.
"We have a lot to do on Sundays, hiking or four-wheeling or cycling. You name it. Now, we killed it all. I see that in my son. He's 11 and just asked me when we'll ever go camping again. I don't know," said Naoum, who lives in Littleton.
At aptly named Hi Hopes Liquor in Littleton, owner Alex Woods is more optimistic about Sunday sales. He, too, has found customers buying cheaper beer and wine because of the faltering economy. But he says without Sundays, his losses would have been bigger.
Woods also had to contend with a giant liquor store that opened nearby and sent his revenues plunging 23 percent throughout the spring and summer. He's finding his customers are coming back as they compare his prices to those of the mega-market. Over the past couple of months, he said his sales are down just 12 percent, an improvement over the spring and summer.
Woods acknowledges it's inconvenient to be open on Sundays, but customers like the freedom to buy wine and beer on their day off.
"It's a necessary evil, but I think it's necessary to be open," Woods said. "I know in my heart and soul that Sundays have helped my business."
Sen. Jennifer Veiga, D-Denver, who sponsored Senate Bill 82, said she thinks the legislation is working well.
"For me, the deciding factor certainly was convenience and not income to the state. While it's our process in the legislature to determine what fiscal impacts will occur, it's just an estimate," Veiga said.
She said it's far too early to tell whether revenues will meet expectations.
"We're in one of the worst recessions or depressions we've ever seen. I'm not sure you can compare this year to last year," Veiga said. "I don't put a whole lot of stock in the numbers at this point."
She said no retailers were forced to open their doors on Sundays.
"There's no requirement that they be open on Sunday or any other day," Veiga said.
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December 1, 2008
7:36 p.m.
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AmericanPatriot writes:
I like the idea that Liquor stores are allowed to be open on Sunday, because I don't like the idea of the State setting the hours of retail businesses. But, like Viega said, "There's no requirement that they be open on Sunday or any other day." So if it's not profitable for them, they can shut it down. There will always be somebody who thinks that it's worth it to stay open.
The next step is the Car Dealers. There is no logical reason to restrict automobile dealers from doing business on a Sunday.
December 1, 2008
8:08 p.m.
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SheikYurBooty writes:
Don't like it??? - Move to Iceland - liquor stores open once a week or less. It's about the customers. No one is forcing anyone to open on any given day or hours. Chick-fil-a and Hobby Lobby close on Sundays, even though their competition does not and they are seeming to do fine.
December 1, 2008
8:10 p.m.
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lifeasafrog writes:
The only thing about these businesses now having the option to open on Sunday is that now they HAVE to be open on Sunday in order to compete. Before, they didn't lose any business by not being open on Sunday because no one was open either. Now, if a liquor store wants to close on Sunday, they will definitely lose profits to other businesses that are open. Although I can understand wanting the option to be open whenever you want, I think it would have been nice for them to expect to have one day off and not lose profits. It doesn't appear that opening on Sunday has increased profits anyway.
December 1, 2008
8:10 p.m.
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jmfslots writes:
The next step should be allowing Grocers, Drug Stores and Big Box Retailers to sell full strength beer, Wine and Liquor. It is ridiculous that Colorado provide a "Corner on the Market" to liquor stores and do not allow fair competition. I hope this is addressed and brought to a vote in the coming year. The public should demand a say in the laws of this State. The State should not dictate to business what they sell in the way of legal products- this includes the Car Dealers and overturning the rediculous Smoking Ban.
December 1, 2008
8:21 p.m.
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Who_Me writes:
Newsflash on MSNBC: the next person who types or blogs "rediculous" when trying to write/say/mean ridiculous generates a death ray sent over the Internet to the ding dongs who were asleep in third grade and missed this word during spelling hour.
December 1, 2008
8:50 p.m.
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pigtracks writes:
"We are closed Sundays so that our employees may enjoy a day of worship and of spending time with their families."
Oh, puh-leeze. Any business exists to meet the needs of its CUSTOMERS, or it ceases to exist. I'm tired of the attitude that a business exists to serve the needs of its employees.
If you want to close your business on a Sunday, do so. Just stop whining. If you are self-employed, accept the realities and consequences. Self-employment stinks? Go to work for someone else.
December 1, 2008
10:02 p.m.
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EZBakeOven writes:
Don't like to work Sundays? Then, don't open your store. Geesh.
December 1, 2008
11:37 p.m.
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jaybyrd writes:
Only the incompetence of state legislators and budget analysts would have thought that being open on Sundays would bring in more revenue to the state...like there were thousands of people who could not previously purchase booze on Sundays, and could not figure out they had six other opportunities during the week, would jam the liquor stores on Sunday. Viega may now join the thousands of miscalculators in other areas who can blame their faulty calculations on the recession, depression, whatever. certainly not their own stupidity. Can't wait to see her other laws before she is mercifully term-limited to oblivion.
December 1, 2008
11:54 p.m.
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jay writes:
wait a minute, byrd, are you saying another work day won't increase city tax revenues?
kind of an ironic position coming from a poster whining about the "incompetence" of "state legislators and budget analysts", no?
December 2, 2008
12:33 a.m.
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Chadley25 writes:
"Originally from Syria, Naoum moved to Colorado from California 18 years ago. He liked the liquor business because he could have Sundays free.
'We have a lot to do on Sundays, hiking or four-wheeling or cycling. You name it. Now, we killed it all. I see that in my son. He's 11 and just asked me when we'll ever go camping again. I don't know,' said Naoum, who lives in Littleton."
____________________
My God. It's like a Lifetime movie or VH1 special, isn't it? The only thing missing as I read this was the weepy violin and piano music in the background. So now we can get wine AND whine at the liquor store, I guess.
Want to have Sundays free? CLOSE YOUR FREAKING STORE. Don't even put up a big sign in the door explaining it. As Pigtracks wrote, we really don't need a big song and dance or some guilt-riddled diatribe about why you're not open. Just say, "Sundays: Closed." Really. It's that simple. Then we won't have to ever have to unabashedly cry again as we read about you never taking your son on these apparent one-day camping trips so you can sell booze on Sundays.
Another alternative: Sell your liquor store and get into the car sales business.
As EZBakeOven so succinctly wrote, "Geesh." Touché.
December 2, 2008
6:02 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Regardless of my faith or noted lack thereof, I can give one day a week and bow my knee unto God. For all who assail this one commandment, or chose to walk in their own vanity and arrogance of wisdom, please note how far our nation has fallen. It seems we have brokered our inheritance and that of our children, for our own selfish desires. Eat, drink, and be merry, but know know He alone numbers the days of His creation. If we trample our own laws as a society built upon laws we created, how should we ever be expected to keep the laws of the Creator? Whether you believe in the divinity of the Creator or not, the 10 laws that were given have been the basis of humanity for many generations, and an integral part of almost all civilizations and the laws that governed them. I find it very difficult to find fault in the law He has given, verses the law we have created.
December 2, 2008
6:18 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Oh and PIGTRACKS, my family owns many businesses, but Sunday is a day we do no business. It is a day all our employees may spend with their families. I am sure they appreciate the honor my family affords them to rest upon this day, to spend however they chose.
December 2, 2008
7:46 a.m.
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sundaychild67 writes:
Bellyache, bellyache. No one is forcing these stores to be open on Sundays! And no one is forcing these stores to CLOSE on Sundays anymore!
And jfmslots: the smoking ban was the best thing to happen! Although I generally support a person's right to do as he or she chooses as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, it's so nice to go into a restaurant or bar and not choke to death! If you're a smoker, as I was for 12 years, once you quit smoking, you'll really notice just how smelly it is! I'm still horrified at how bad I must have smelled of smoke! Doesn't matter how often you shower or wash your clothes...you reek of it and it's quite eye-opening! Plus, I don't get bronchitis like I used to.
Back to the Liquor Stores: if there isn't a flood of business on Sundays, then it shouldn't matter if you're open or not. So stay closed if you want!
December 2, 2008
7:47 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
One last thought, when I used to work for an orthodox Jewish businessman in the Lakewood Jewish community, I was off work and paid every Friday at 3 pm. As a catholic, I always appreciated and came to respect this man deeply along with his unwavering obligation to God. One day a year, he toss out all the food in his home, loaded me up with it, and sent me home to my family with arm loads of kosher food and meats. It is a blessing in many ways to work for those who honor the Sabbath day; the families of our employees truly enjoy having at least one day a week of rest to spend as they chose. I know I possess an opinion in the minority of today's beliefs; so like my orthodox Jewish friend, regardless of what laws are passed, some of us will always answer to a "higher authority" concerning one day a week. Even Sandy Kofax, the great pitcher, put down his glove and ball on the Sabbath; something to be said about a man who sticks to his beliefs, regardless of the world's ever evolving opinions.
December 2, 2008
8:06 a.m.
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stinkfist2 writes:
Grocery stores should not be allowed to sell full strength alcohol. jmfslots states that the state of Colorado allows liqour stores to "corner the market." And says they should level the playing field. Give me a break, if huge retailers like Wal-mart or Target were allowed to sell full strength beer and alcohol they would run alot of smaller mom & pops spots out of business. These smaller establishments would not be able to compete, and be forced to close. Besides a crocery store is just that, if you want liquour, you know where to go!
December 2, 2008
8:30 a.m.
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Chadley25 writes:
Thanks for your religious diatribe, LOUIE. Maybe we should just shut the entire nation down on Sundays, what do you say? No police, no airports, no EMTs, no doctors on call, nothing. Kiss the entire NFL goodbye, too, by the way. Let's all observe the Sabbath. Those unwavering beliefs of which you speak are exactly what compelled men to drive airliners into the World Trade Center. Different religion, perhaps, but the same flawed thinking. Answering to a fictional "higher authority" and a set of man-made rules with no logic, proof, or due process. Unwavering beliefs wind up being dangerous to those who don't share them. History proves this. I'll stick to my Bordeaux and Rieslings, thanks. You can keep your Sabbath. Live and let live, I say.
December 2, 2008
8:35 a.m.
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Diff writes:
Did anyone really think that because they are now selling 7 days a week - not only 6 that it would increase consumption? If it did... What would that say about our society? I think that would be sad, or at least concerning. No?
Alcohol creates more sadness and strife in our culture that any other cause you can name! I am not anti Drinking per se - I am anti-abusive drinking, and think that as a society we could do more to reduce it, and help those with the affliction of Alcoholism!
This was just bone to the liquor store owners before the change that gives big box retailers like Wal-Mart and Safeway the ability to sell alcohol, and they are making less profit now - with the costs of being open another day a week and generating only marginal if any increases in revenue.
Those of making complaints of the state controlling a business - consider that many states still have State run and owned liquor sales. I Was in Utah many years ago (I think they have change their laws allot in recent years) The "Package Stores" were only open weekdays and about the same hours as most people work, As I recall they closed by 6PM - and I think only open a few hours on Saturdays. You really had to plan your buying of alcohol, yet Utah's rate of DUI's and alcoholism compares with the rest of the US.
December 2, 2008
8:36 a.m.
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Bagel writes:
If I'm not mistaken (and I very well could be), liquor stores aren't allowed to sell grocery store like items. So you couldn't lift the restriction on one without doing the same to the other.
Not that I'd like to go to the liquor store to pick up a steak.
And as far as Sunday sales not improving overall sales, I bet it will with all the tourists during ski season.
December 2, 2008
8:40 a.m.
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Bagel writes:
Diff, in Tennessee the liquor and beer stores had to be separate. So they share a building, but to buy both you have to exit one side of the building to enter the other, and then make a second purchase. Now THAT is ridiculous.
December 2, 2008
8:48 a.m.
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Darwin writes:
Sen. Jennifer Veiga, D-Denver, who sponsored Senate Bill 82, said she thinks the legislation is working well. "For me, the deciding factor certainly was convenience and not income to the state..."
If it is for "convenience", than grocery stores should be allowed to sell the same products as liquor stores do. Can't compete, well that is the result of "free enterprise".
Stinkfist2, have you been in a grocery store lately? They sell things for autos, school supplies, Christmas decorations, etc.
December 2, 2008
8:49 a.m.
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Diff writes:
Chadley25 - Kind of like that idea of closing things on Sunday - or one day a week!
It used to be that way - most retailers were closed, groceries store were closed - even most gasoline stations, you had to hunt to find the few drug stores that were open. So whats wrong with that? Now it would be ridiculous to say there would be no emergency service, and to close airports etc..
There was talk of allowing car dealers to be open on Sunday - guess who fought that one - the car dealers! - they'd like to have a day off!
But one "down day" a week for most of society - GOOD IDEA!
Just think what we could save in energy use! Less electric in all of the stores - less driving. Families could have a nice quiet day to spend together - instead of another hectic day of places to go and things to do... neighbors might even visit neighbors, friends and family might even get to spend time together - just relaxing and enjoying each other...
You've got 6 other days a week to get your business done, and knowing things would be closed - it would make little if any difference in sales. (might require something called planning tho..)
I'm writing my legislator next... THANX!
December 2, 2008
8:57 a.m.
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Diff writes:
Bagel I recall as well "dry counties" in Georgia as recently as the late 80's - in the Atlanta area....
Their are some strange and un-needed laws for sure . . . but their also some uncalled for changes that are made - like this one...
For the easy convenience of those who can't PLAN to buy whatever liquor they need the other 7 days a week - Most (not all) of those I would bet would be better off not drinking anyway...
December 2, 2008
9:10 a.m.
Suggest removal
UNV_ME writes:
Banning liquor stores from opening on Sunday was dumb. Just as dumb as car dealerships not operating on Sunday. W#F? It should be up to the owners to decide to open or not. That's just common sense.
December 2, 2008
9:14 a.m.
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Bagel writes:
I disagree. I'm not of the mind that we should try to make people 'be good' by limiting their choices.
If my local liquor store chose to be closed on sundays I'd fully support them and plan accordingly. But they'd have to accept the risk that if I forgot then I'd go somewhere else that was open.
Also, the Jack Daniels distillery is in a dry country. Funny stuff.
December 2, 2008
9:15 a.m.
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Bagel writes:
Whoops...
"I disagree..." was aimed at Diff, not Unv
December 2, 2008
9:38 a.m.
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Willy writes:
The reason it will be difficult to get the legislature to grant grocery stores, etc liquor licenses is the huge wholesale business and the layer of tax revenue it creates in the state. The current law says that an individual may only have a single license for a single location. It is fairly easy to get around this restriction for a few licenses by manipulating the ownership. That would not be possible with the large chains. Safeway has used their single license to sell liquor at a store in Littleton.
December 2, 2008
10:03 a.m.
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Diff writes:
I thought so.... I do generally agree tho that you can not legislate "morality". (whatever that is...)but I think it is a sad comment on us as a society that someone would so baldy "need" to buy a bottle that he insists that the state make it available to him 7days a week...
I surely see the point that if a store owner wants to close he has that right - realizing that he would likely loose revenue in this case with most other stores being open - and with 3 or 4 or more liquor stores within a few blocks - he also runs the risk of then losing a Regular customer as well....
Bottom line this law will make little difference - Makes for some good discussion tho.
Now it is another debate all together when the next step comes -of allowing the groceries and 7-11's and Targets to sell liquor..
At the very least I think there are issues with enforcement in that change. (but thats another days post... )
I am VERY strongly opposed to that one, and have written my legislator on it.
December 2, 2008
10:16 a.m.
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jay writes:
"I can give one day a week and bow my knee unto God. For all who assail this one commandment, or chose to walk in their own vanity and arrogance of wisdom, please note how far our nation has fallen. "
yikes....i'd love to hear more about the supposed causality implied here, louie.
December 2, 2008
10:21 a.m.
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RightDownTheMiddle writes:
Most of you posting here need to have a beer.....
December 2, 2008
10:30 a.m.
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peter303 writes:
I NEED MY TRADER JOES FIX!
TJ wont open in Colorado until food stores can sell wine.
December 2, 2008
10:39 a.m.
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stinkfist2 writes:
Darwin the other items that they sell are not like liquour. Besides they sell beer already. If they were allowed to sell full strength beer and alcohol the so called playing field would not be leveled. The grocery store would no doubt ramp up their alcohol buying and advertising, and as previously stated would run a lot of hard working people out of business. Besides who wants to go wait in a line for twenty minutes to get a six pack.
December 2, 2008
10:49 a.m.
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jd writes:
By being open one day less than their competitors will reduce their sales by approx 14%. How would you like to take a 14% pay cut. If they don't stay open on Sunday now then they will lose that income and now they have to hire more people to cover the store, additional expense for sales that they were already taking in with only 6 days.
December 2, 2008
10:52 a.m.
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Bagel writes:
Diff, I think we're seeing this from two different angles. You see it as the addict doesn't need the state making things available to him. I see it as the average person doesn't need the state making things unavailable to him. I'll always favor limiting the state's involvement.
December 2, 2008
10:59 a.m.
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Bagel writes:
jd, think about the reductio ad absurdum.
The state tells liquor stores they're only able to open one day a year. 100% of their income is taken in on that day. If the state now tells them they can be open 365 days a year, and they choose not to, they'll lose 99.7% of their income compared to their competitors, plus think of all the extra people they'll have to pay to cover the store.
The point is not whether or not they'll make more money, it's about giving choice to the consumer.
December 2, 2008
11:02 a.m.
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Diff writes:
jd - that would only be true if the daily sales were close to the same every day - I'd bet the sales and traffic in most local liquor stores is at it's lowest or maybe 2nd lowest on Sunday - The added expense for most would be one clerk and the small amount of additional electric to have the store open, and most owners probably cover the store them selfs or a family memeber, 90% of the time... some larger stores may have 2 clerks.. what they have to consider is the maybe small amount of additional revenue over several months.. is worth there TIME to open on Sunday...
If I were a liquor store operator I would probably close on Sunday - depending on my location with relation to other stores and my customers, via a quick survey. Something like a customer loyalty card - $x off for a certian amount of purchases etc might be an alternative as well... or make a deal with your closest competition to each open every other Sunday -
December 2, 2008
11:08 a.m.
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MrWright writes:
Having the choice is key for customers...it is a no brainer....if you want to close , close.....there will always be some stores open and ready for business!!! Drink up!!
December 2, 2008
11:15 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
See, Jay, Chad, and whomever, it's not whether you agree with me or not that is important, it is whether there is respect for differing opinions and beliefs. I learned a lot about people and beliefs differing from my own because I often took the time to walk with those whose opinions or beliefs were different. The orthodox Jewish man and I worked alongside each other, holding some pretty intense debates and discussions on everything from Dante's Divine Comedy to theology. The man had an above average IQ, held several patents, and I learned much from his devotion to his faith. He was honorable to truth in that he practiced what he believed. You can change the law, I respect your right to do so, will I practice your belief in the law, probably not. If an NFL player walked away from the game because he had a personal obligation to God, you would find him "flawed" in his reasoning, perhaps because he chose God over money. I on the other hand would see this same man as not only principled, but one who I might want to learn more about. This is America, you can do pretty much as you desire. I am by far no christian, but I made a promise to God long ago in a very dark place, and I believe I should live to that promise, even if everything in my life collapses around me. Just like my friend Joshua always honored the Sabbath day as an obligation he had made as an orthodox Jew unto God. I learned many things about people especially those who live by their convictions. Most only pay lipservice to their beliefs, like Ted Haggard, or the priest running the streets nude. Yet as rare as Sandy Kolfax was for not pitching on the Jewish Sabbath, there are still those who have the backbone to stand true to their convictions, even if they walk alone to the scorn of the world. That I find more honor in, than one who has no beliefs or convictions, but what society tells or dictates his beliefs.
December 2, 2008
11:15 a.m.
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Diff writes:
Not quite Bagel, That's not the point I was trying to make but I can see how you see it that way ... an addict or anyone who is determined to have a drink is going to have it - look at all those who use drugs - the state plays no part in providing their drugs, and in fact try to makes it difficult to buy - 7 days a week.. not that it is all the difficult tho.
I just think it brings up a point to think about . . . alcohol is surely not a need, as much as a drug store or even a grocery store - things that could be planed for as well if those retailers were closed one day a week.
No one is as strongly making the same case for Car Dealers to be open 7 days a week - tho that question was before the state a few months ago...
I really do not see this as big deal one way or the other....
Just adding some fodder to the debate...
December 2, 2008
11:29 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Ever ask yourself why the Amish do not have to obey the government's compulsatory education law while the rest of America must? I always found that unique, anybody out there know why?
December 2, 2008
11:45 a.m.
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ds42 writes:
Cry me a river.
I don't see why liquor stores and car dealerships are so special that they need a state-enforced day off. I'm sure any retail business would prefer being open only one day a week -- as long as everyone else could only open on that one day -- and going fishing the rest of the week. What about the family-owned convenience store where I buy milk and bread, where's their day off? Come to think of it, I end up working on the weekends a lot for my customers -- maybe the government could help me out, too.
December 2, 2008
12:12 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
It's all about choice; some choose to have them closed, others choose to have them open. If I vote one way, surely the next man votes the other way. Someone always comes up on the short end of the stick either way. I want to let people smoke in my business, law says I can't because some believe I am wrong for making my own choice. I don't support booze sales on the Sabbath, next guy says it's none of my business. Ain't that America, all about making our personal choices into law. Funny thing is those that argue the freedom of choice are much like me in that they only want their choice to prevail. Someday, we'll have so many laws, everyone will have to decide which ones to break in order to enjoy life; in other words, to many laws and the people loose respect for the law. Maybe we should elect someone other than lawyers to represent us, all they do is make more law. A simple document such as our constitution has thousands of volumes of law just to define it, some say it's been so defined as to become irrelevant today. Go figure.
December 2, 2008
12:26 p.m.
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Heidioftherockies writes:
Colorado has some of the most screwed-up liquor laws in the country. We have a FOUR TIER level, if you count the feds that everyone has to count. For importers, first stop is the TTB on the federal level. Then comes the Colorado importer, then the distributor and then the retailer or restaurant. We have such strict and stupid laws that prohibit the sale of wine in the same establishment as food is sold. So, as in Edwards with one store, they have to have two entrances and two separate cash registers. How stupid. Wish Madame Legislator would work as hard at fixing those laws as she did on expanding the number of days booze could be sold.
December 2, 2008
1:19 p.m.
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Diff writes:
Heidioftherockies - Your saying Colorado is "worse" so what states do not have something comparable - where is it so different - and how/why is it so better?
What we have here is a lot less restrictive to the consumer than a number of other state - and the consumers choices and convinience seems to be the biggest argument here --- and yet it has worked just fine for the past 70 years or more - why the big need for the change now (notice NEED? - not want... )What makes the change so compelling needed?
So you are saying it is so bad here - compare and contrast Colorado to other States.... if you can...
And if you are finding it so lousy here and so much better in other states - why are you living HERE?
December 2, 2008
1:27 p.m.
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Bagel writes:
I'll always say it's a need to do away with ridiculous laws. Worked just fine for 70 years? According to who? When I wanted beer on a sunday a few years ago I wouldn't say it was working just fine.
On the subject of ridiculous laws, Oregon needs to do away with not being able to pump your own gas. Just because it works doesn't mean it isn't archaic.
December 2, 2008
1:30 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Inconvenience, Diff you should see the state stores in Ohio, that's restrictive, Monday through Friday, 9am to 6pm, all state owned stores. Beer is sold everywhere in private stores however. I used to have to cross the bridge and pick up hard booze in Kentucky after hours and on weekends.
December 2, 2008
1:39 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Some states used to allow an open beer in the car, as long as the driver wasn't drunk. Today, I don't think any state allows an open container in the car. Just depends where you live and the laws the majority decide they want. Some places are still dry counties. There's even a place called Hell, Michigan not far from Detroit, I always wondered if anything goes there?
December 2, 2008
1:59 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
You know the other thought is here in Denver, if you need anything, a tar ball of heroin, speed, weed, crack, vicodan, percocet, sex, a hot gun, anything legal or illegal, just go downtown and stand in the park between the capitol and the courthouse. You're sure to be served; whats ironic is it's been that way as long as I can remember. Right where the laws are made and enforced is the largest black market in Denver, go figure. Now if that isn't a lack of respect for the law in their own front yard, I don't know what is. Mayor can look out his window and watch the deals go down right along with the governor and the rest of the lawmakers.
December 2, 2008
2:09 p.m.
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lastdance writes:
I guess those Muslims that walked of the job for Ramadan, a few months back, had more support then they thought- right? If you don't want to work on certain days or open your store then feel free-deal with the repercussions, don't cry about it. OK, maybe I’m a little slow....you sell booze for a living but working on Sunday is just too much because that would interrupt your Jesus time, or a play date with your family. I guess as long as those crack dealers down the street take off the ol' Sabbath then they really can't be that bad after all….
December 2, 2008
2:30 p.m.
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jay writes:
louie, i'd still like to hear more about the causality you implied earlier.
i didn't see anything about it in your reply.
"I want to let people smoke in my business, law says I can't because some believe I am wrong for making my own choice."
it's not about "beliefs" about "wrong" choices, louie, it's about you not having the right to provide your employees with an unsafe workplace (ie, one filled with carcinogens like benzene, abestos and cigarette smoke)
i don't who it was that implied that if stores aren't open on sundays they'll lose 14% of their business. that's not accurate.
they won't lose any business they already do on 6 days of the week. they may lose out on 14% of additional business should they decide to be closed on sundays...but that's the way business works. if you're not open, you have no chance of increasing your revenues on that day.
i would hope that people would take some accountability for their own actions instead of blaming their hardships on "gov't intervention".
December 2, 2008
2:35 p.m.
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wow writes:
Why is this even an object for speculation?
Slower overall sales might be the result of the "economic downturn".
Saturday sales are down because you can buy on Sunday instead.
Both are probably true.
But this is the first time I heard that sales projections showed sales increasing because people could buy on Sundays. Like we were all going to drink more, just because the store was open? That was poor planning, and for business owners, they don't seem terribly bright to have counted on it.
December 2, 2008
3:35 p.m.
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B_Real writes:
Sen. Jennifer Veiga, D-Denver, who sponsored Senate Bill 82, said she thinks the legislation is working well.
"For me, the deciding factor certainly was convenience and not income to the state. While it's our process in the legislature to determine what fiscal impacts will occur, it's just an estimate," Veiga said.
She said it's far too early to tell whether revenues will meet expectations.
- "We're in one of the worst recessions or depressions we've ever seen. I'm not sure you can compare this year to last year," Veiga said. "I don't put a whole lot of stock in the numbers at this point."
She said no retailers were forced to open their doors on Sundays.
"There's no requirement that they be open on Sunday or any other day," Veiga said. -
It is ridiculous and ignorant for Jennifer Veiga to say that the deciding factor was for convenient rather than economics.
She has a three year plan, supported by major Spirits company, in the Grocery Bill. Her goal in her position is to have the Grocery Stores sell Beer, Wine and Liquor. She thinks she is still living in California.
Also, how can she say that liquor stores are NOT required to open on Sundays when she pushed for liquor stores to open on Sundays? THIS WAS HER IDEA...
All I know is that her political career was financially supported by Spirits company and she is nothing but a PUPPET.
Jennifer Veiga calls herself Democratic..? I think she is more of a SELFISHCRATIC!
December 2, 2008
3:49 p.m.
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B_Real writes:
wow writes:
- But this is the first time I heard that sales projections showed sales increasing because people could buy on Sundays. Like we were all going to drink more, just because the store was open? That was poor planning, and for business owners, they don't seem terribly bright to have counted on it. -
It was not the liquor store owners who pushed for this, it was Jennifer Veiga. She pushed for liquor stores to open on Sundays for the past five years... Liquor stores were forced to open.
AND for THOSE who say or said that liquor store owners don't have to open, go to Idiotic University and register for Economics 101 or Business for Dummies to understand business.
December 2, 2008
4:46 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Jay, all of us here smoke, we own the building, we own the business; we still allow smoking. I have a 50 dollar a day cigar habit. In my 50's, healthy, pump iron, ride a bicycle, no casualties here. If your close friend, I'll pour a drink in a private area of residence attached to the business. No casualties here Jay, people love us because we let them be free. Lock on our door, you get buzzed in for security reasons. Matter of fact a beautiful lady just came in, saw an ashtray and sat down and lit up, who am I to object? Another happy customer who made her choice over my non-smoking competitor. We are closed on Sunday, it's a day of rest for everybody to spend as they choose. Their loss is my gain! :>)
December 2, 2008
4:58 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Even with higher limits, when do you think the casinos will call it quits Jay? Vegas is still the place to go. If you don't think the no smoking has knocked a hole in their bottom line in addition to the bad economy, ask the managers, they said right of the bat no smoking was taking a big chunk out of their bottom line. Oh well, be some healthy casino workers in the unemployment line, how sad. Bad economy shoots one foot off, the state passes a law that shoots off the other. Bet the raise to 100 dollar bets doesn't pull them out, what do you think Jay?
December 2, 2008
5:05 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
I can afford to gamble, I can afford the flight to Vegas; can the casino worker afford to lose his job? I love gambling on cards, stocks, sports, you name it, just not in Colorado's no smoking casinos.
December 4, 2008
8:34 a.m.
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mxrbook writes:
I believe the loser in this game is the consumer. Liquor stores' overhead goes up because of increased payroll, payroll taxes, utilities? Then prices go up. Even if the liquor store keeps the same profit margin as before the new law, the state receives increased revenue in the form of higher taxes from higher prices. So the liquor store owner stays the same, the state's revenues are increased, the consumer pays more. But at least it's convenient!