Pro-gun group to lobby CU regents

Students for Concealed Carry take aim at ban

By Brittany Anas, The Camera

Published August 18, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.
Updated August 18, 2008 at 9:13 a.m.

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August 18, 2008

6:21 a.m.

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Hambone writes:

Of course the movement is based in the Springs, a bastion of stupidity. Let's just arm everyone!!!
August 18, 2008

6:53 a.m.

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rray writes:

You are absolutely correct... let's DO arm everyone. Take an approved course, get a permit and DO carry a weapon. Persons that do this have FBI and State background checks. They submit fingerprints. They are careful. They practice, on average, more than most police officers. Remember... When seconds count the police are only minutes away...
August 18, 2008

7:03 a.m.

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Dub writes:

This isn't meant to "Arm Everyone" It's about allowing you to choose to be responsible for your own safety, or put your safety in the hands of others. Maybe the deranged person won't shoot YOU, maybe the police will be there in the few seconds it takes to stop a shooter, maybe the shooter will obey the LAW and not bring a gun on campus. But MAYBE he will go to where he can be assured that he won't be stopped until he completes his mission, which is to go out in a blaze of "glory" and kill himself.
August 18, 2008

7:26 a.m.

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LingLingfor_prez writes:

"As someone who has served in law enforcement and has firearms training, I don't think having students carrying guns on campus will make us a safer place."

Go ahead and assume that no one but law enforcement has firearms training and that they are only students and not adults on campus. They act like their jobs are at risk of being lost or something.
August 18, 2008

7:33 a.m.

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Marshdale writes:

In part I agree with allowing people to arm them selves for self protection. However, I'm not sure that an 18 year old kid retains the judment and or restraint required to carry a hand gun, especially in light of the fact that a lot of bad judgement already occurs on college campuses. Everybody knows many of these kids drink their self into the next century at campus parties etc. Alchohol and guns are an extremely bad combo. Scientific studies have shown that our brains, especialy in the judgment department, are not fully developed until we are in our early to mid twenties. How about allowing them to carry tasers instead? Do those require a permit?
August 18, 2008

7:46 a.m.

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HolierThanThou writes:

Sobriety reduces assaults, especially those of the sexual date rape variety. People tend to be more polite when they keep their wits about them. Nobody was ever accidentally shot because someone else decided not to take a drink of whiskey. So, if the idea is to reduce assaults then the university should ban booze and drunks from campus.

Somehow I don't believe this would be as popular as the proposal by pistol-packin' Pete there. But if safety is the real issue, then you know what to do.

Fortunately, for a culture that is awash in guns, emotionalism, and mass murder as the solution to all our problems, we have surprisingly few massacres in our schools. Most of them are done by dudes who would have been well served by some quiet time in a good old-fashioned insane asylum.
August 18, 2008

8:36 a.m.

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Cowboy63 writes:

Hambone = hysterial liberal.

This is not about "arming everyone" - we've already seen what disarming everyone leads to. Of course, finding a CU regent with any kind of spine to take this up will be the real challenge. If you don't think the students are mature enough, then let the faculty and security go armed. We've already seen that calling the police is good for a "post mortem" but they aren't going to provide any real time security.

It's about giving people the CHOICE. If you don't want to carry, then don't. If you do, then that is your right to do so. Don't stand in the way of people who would choose to defend themselves (and you) if necessary.
August 18, 2008

8:47 a.m.

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JayMagic writes:

Typical "Peoples Republic" thinking. CSU continues to allow concealed carry on campus (except dorms). I don't remember seeing any shooting incidents reported, due to drunken students with no self control. Of course, as a CSU alum, I will agree that there is a significant difference between the two students bodies. I guess one can be trusted and the other one can't.
August 18, 2008

9:27 a.m.

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Wolfgang writes:

Hambone, did you even bother to read the article before making your inane post?
August 18, 2008

9:39 a.m.

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Squatch writes:

You have to be 21 to Legally buy a Handgun. So you shouldnt have 18 year olds packing heat.
August 18, 2008

9:42 a.m.

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M2 writes:

YEEEEE HAW! GUNS! WHOOOO! KILL EVERYTHING!

This HAS to be the least intelligent thing I've heard in a long time.
August 18, 2008

10:05 a.m.

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Wolfgang writes:

I don't know about that, M2. I'd say your post ranks right up there.

Did you actually have any kind of intelligent counterargument to make, or are sarcastic comments the best you can do?
August 18, 2008

1:25 p.m.

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Squatch writes:

Now you actually have to search for this story.
August 18, 2008

3:26 p.m.

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JohnEB writes:

Marshdale writes, "However, I'm not sure that an 18 year old kid retains the judment and or restraint required to carry a hand gun, "

In case you are not aware, in the state of Colorado you must be 21 to have a concealed carry permit. And a lot of people older than that attaned college.
August 18, 2008

3:28 p.m.

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JohnEB writes:

Squatch writes, "You have to be 21 to Legally buy a Handgun."

Only from a dealer. You only have to be 18 to buy one from a private seller or to possess one.
August 18, 2008

3:31 p.m.

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JohnEB writes:

attaned = attend
August 19, 2008

10:08 a.m.

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Squatch writes:

JohnEB - It is unlawful for any person under 18 to possess a handgun, and it is unlawful to provide or permit a juvenile to possess a handgun.

So they wouldnt be buying it LEGALLY so they in turn not be able to get a concealed permit.
August 19, 2008

3:45 p.m.

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JohnEB writes:

"It is unlawful for any person under 18 to possess a handgun, and it is unlawful to provide or permit a juvenile to possess a handgun."

That is what I said. You said, "You have to be 21 to Legally buy a Handgun." That isn't 100% correct. They have to be 21 only to purchase from a dealer. They only have to be 18 to purchase from a private citizen and they only have to be 18 to possess a handgun. They also have to be 21 to get a concealed carry permit.
August 19, 2008

6:48 p.m.

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Citizen21 writes:

Before all the hysteria created "gun free zones," students at Va Tech did carry. And, before I get slammed, carrying conceled means no one knows you have a gun-you don't show it, you don't talk about it. I refuse to be a victim. I will carry concealed, leagally. As for the "gun free zones," they have only created victims. It's sad, but true. I have a right to defend myself and I will. I really hope this passes for all the students - I would hate to see another Va Tech tragedy.
August 20, 2008

2:39 p.m.

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djasbestos writes:

Instead of conjecture about how these students and others (including me) are whack jobs, read this from Students for Concealed Carry on Campus' website: http://www.concealedcampus.org/argume...

I'm a CSU alumnus, a liberal independent, and I have a CCW permit. We haven't had any problems with it up here: zero. Just ask Chief Yates of CSUPD.

SCCC does not address the requirements for CCW...we simply advocate that people with permits, as proscribed by state law, be lawfully allowed to carry them on campus, and that their school policy will allow them to do so without academic penalty.

In any event, if you can't trust a 21+ adult with a handgun on college campus, you cannot trust them with one anywhere...there is NO practical difference between a college campus and the mall, the movie theater, or a restaurant...all which are legal places to carry handguns. Why should a student be expelled for something that a non-student could do with impunity? Assuming a challenge to Ken Salazar's decree that the CU board of regents can trump state law...which is BS, imho.
August 21, 2008

7:35 a.m.

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johnsmiths123456789 writes:

How could arming students (normally relatively intelligent last time I checked) prove chaotic? Seriously, how? Please, if any of you emotionally argumentative anti gun people out there could please give me just one or two actually plausible scenarios where this could happen, I would really appreciate it.

That's just an emotional statement that that dude made to make people go, gee, it COULD be chaotic, that wouldn't be good, better not change anything. But they take his word for it! Who watches the news, hears that an actually thinks about it? Very few people take the time, so he gets everyone believing that simply because he said so. BUT IT'S NOT TRUE. What a $&$%&* and an W$%&#$*&%^*.

No but seriously, please post a plausible scenario, I'm too stupid and imaginationally challenged to come up with one. Please help me anti gun saviors.

(Was I a bit too harsh?)
August 21, 2008

7:45 a.m.

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johnsmiths123456789 writes:

Read

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/Inform...

Entitled "To prevent a life of crime, buy your kid a gun"
Government research showing how growing up with guns etc leads to less crime. An excerpt:
"The study was conducted from 1993-1995 by the U.S. Department of Justice's Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention. Child psychologists tracked 4,000 boys and girls aged 6 to 15 in Denver, Pittsburgh, and Rochester, N.Y. Their findings?

-- Children who get guns from their parents don't commit gun crimes (0 percent) while children who get guns illegally are quite likely to do so (21 percent).

-- Children who get guns from parents are less likely to commit any kind of street crime (14 percent) than children who have no gun in the house (24 percent) -- and are dramatically less likely to do so than children who acquire an illegal gun (74 percent.)

-- Children who get guns from parents are less likely to use banned drugs (13 percent) than children who get illegal guns (41 percent.)

-- Most strikingly, the study found: "Boys who own legal firearms have much lower rates of delinquency and drug use (than boys who own illegal guns) and are even slightly less delinquent than non-owners of guns."

This wouldn't have surprised anyone before the rise of the modern welfare state. It used to be common knowledge that the best way to get kids to act "responsibly" was precisely to give them some "responsibility." Why would we assume a child taught by his parents to use a gun responsibly wouldn't also be more responsible in his other behaviors?
"

Opinions?

P.S. the article gets better
August 22, 2008

10:54 a.m.

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AngelontheSidelines writes:

John,
"No but seriously, please post a plausible scenario, I'm too stupid and imaginationally challenged to come up with one. Please help me anti gun saviors."

Whilst I eschew saving anyone in regards to your plea, I do offer the logical answer, one I thought of and others have posted;
That of a lone nut instigating his incident, and a CCW holder responding. Shots alert nearby witnesses and another CCW draws and fires on the first CCW holder. A chain reaction of panicked pistol packers pull iron to shoot each other in an impressive bloodbath worthy of the best Hollywood choreography.

Of course CCW training is to identify yourself as a citizen permit carrier. I expect CCW holders to be intelligent enough to discern the situation and act accordingly.

BTW John, you are a bit too harsh, but only in a way that, emotional reactions and name calling, while it feels good does not show empathy necessary to establish rapport with your opposing debaters. Respect is a two way street, self respect is required of us all before we can earn that of others.

Yet self respect does not include allowing yourself to be subjected to behavior of criminals. Please read Jeffery Snyder's 1993 timeless explanation of why men of honor are responsible for their personal liberty; A Nation of Cowards.
http://www.gunowners.org/op9805.htm

I suggest all gun control fantasizers read this, the choice to arm yourself is yours, limiting other's choices is tyranny.
August 22, 2008

11:51 a.m.

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HopiMedicineMan writes:

Most concealed carry is by liberals. Some have permits, some aren't supposed to own firearms. What I don't understand is if you're a liberal and you carry, why would be a liberal? Eschew me that!
August 22, 2008

12:02 p.m.

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HopiMedicineMan writes:

I would certainly be in favor of arming everyone. I can only anticipate benefits from that. We'd put the cops out of business, and that's the reason cops don't like citizen carry.

But I'm skeptical. Is Colorado Springs really a bastion? How can a city have a mother?
August 25, 2008

12:57 p.m.

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adrenjunkie writes:

I am torn on the issue. I do understand the desire to want to protect yourself if I were in the same circumstance. I know the dangers in the world and have the scars to prove it. However, possessing a handgun on campus...well, I just can’t agree that it would be a good idea.

On one side, I know that a student in the right place at the wrong time might end any rampage by a deranged gunman looking to conduct a mass killing. In that case, I agree that students WOULD be better off by having a gun. Though the student who pulled the trigger would likely suffer nightmares for the rest of their life.

On the flip side though, any normal person can be trained to fire and hit targets accurately and consistently. Yet, IF the unthinkable did happen and a student needed to pull out the gun to protect themselves, adrenaline takes over and accuracy tends to fall short. I have personally been in numerous positions where I had to return fire while in the military. Fear and adrenaline tend to take control unless you are drilled 24/7 on combat tactics. The military always say when you get into it that your training takes over...and they were right, but the fear and adrenaline does hamper accuracy a bit. These students don't have this type of training and if the worst did happen, all they would have would be the fear and adrenaline. So, in short, there would be a handful of scared students many firing blindly in the direction of the hostile. I have seen even the most well trained soldier firing blindly from fear so I can’t imagine these students being any different. So then that leaves one crazy gunman shooting anyone they can, various students returning fire (with most too scared to see what they are hitting), and more casualties from stray rounds blindly fired by peers.

I would love to give the students the right to arm themselves, but I think that they also be required to attend an in depth combat course for a minimum of a couple weeks to at least give them an understanding of what a gunfight is like. As a second part, I think they also need to enforce a zero tolerance for alcohol with the few that do carry. I don’t doubt that some people can handle both the responsibility of alcohol and firearms, but this is to stop those that can’t.
August 29, 2008

6:24 a.m.

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johnsmiths123456789 writes:

At Angel: Thank you for the honest reply. I understand your comments regarding mutual respect and opening up dialogue with opposition.
In response to your Hollywood worthy shootout, I can imagine a hypothetical situation such as that. However, I suspect that the first few shots fired would alert most nearby people to the incident and if they witness one armed person down another armed person, and then cease firing, they might exercise judgement and wait until they see someone else in immediate danger before firing themselves.

At Adrenjunkie: First of all, I think that the student will be quite willing to live with the nightmares, because if he/she isn't then someone else (possibly several someone else’s) won't live in order to save him/her from their nightmares.

Secondly, you are in two minds, firstly you are against campus carrying, but without giving a reason (please supply one if you have the time, I would enjoy understanding your viewpoint), then secondly you are for it (a slight exaggeration as you seem rather reluctant). You are for campus CCW etc. because you understand that once in a while something bad happens, and there might be a need for a firearm. Yet you still seem reluctant. Unfortunately for your standpoint on the fence, it is somewhat difficult to predict which day someone bent on murder will start killing people. So which days would you feel that carrying is alright? Just the days when the soon-to-be-murderer shows up I believe would be the days that you are in favour of "allowing" carry.

However, because it's slightly difficult to determine those days in advance, it boils down to an all-or-nothing situation. Which would you choose? Carry all the time, and save some lives now and then? Or never carry and let mass murder happen now and then?

I'm sure everyone here has uttered a phrase now and then, perhaps just double checking to see that you turned off the iron/oven of switched off the lights before you left for work. Maybe you thought, "no, I'm sure I turned it off", but then you decided you better check again anyway, just in case, "nah, better safe than sorry." Well firearms are just in case tools, that is their purpose in life, just in case, they afford those lucky individuals that have them the opportunity to be better safe than sorry. Because that day you need a gun but don't have it, you will be sorry. It might be your child on campus one day, or in the store, or at the ATM. Then I'm fairly certain you would rather that you child had a gun and didn't need it, instead of being in need of a gun and not having one.

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Home › News › Education

Pro-gun group to lobby CU regents

Students for Concealed Carry take aim at ban

By Brittany Anas, The Camera

Published August 18, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.Updated August 18, 2008 at 9:13 a.m.

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Published August 18, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.
Updated August 18, 2008 at 9:13 a.m.