Clinton to get floor vote at convention
Move intended to unify Democrats behind Obama
By Sara Burnett, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published August 14, 2008 at 11:15 a.m.
Hillary Clinton is expected to tell her delegates to support Obama.
Sen. Hillary Clinton's name will be placed in nomination at the Democratic National Convention, but the move - intended to unify the party behind Sen. Barack Obama - doesn't appease all her supporters.
While some Clinton backers were thrilled by the news Thursday, others decried it as strictly symbolic and said they won't give up trying to get the New York senator selected.
Obama is expected to be officially chosen to face Republican John McCain in November.
Party officials "think that after the convention, we're all going to fall into place," said Robert Kunst of Hillary Now!, a Florida-based organization planning a parade in Denver on the final day of the DNC. "But this whole 'Kum- bay-yah' thing is nonexistent. It's more volatile than they think."
But Katherine Vincent, one of the organizers of Colorado Women Count/Women Vote, was ecstatic.
"This is all we wanted was to see her honored and recognized," she said. "I think this will go a long, long way toward unifying the party."
Colorado Women Count/Women Vote is teaming with 18 Million Voices for a pro-Clinton parade on Aug. 26, followed by a rally in Cheesman Park where Clinton's speech at the DNC will be shown live.
Another group plans to paper the city with Clinton fliers, while a supporter from Denver has arranged to have a Catholic Mass said for Clinton the morning of her speech.
The groups are not affiliated with Clinton, who is expected to release her delegates and urge them to support Obama when the roll call is held.
The New York senator has already been stumping for Obama on the campaign trail.
Obama and Clinton issued a joint statement Thursday saying they hope putting both names in nomination will unify the party behind Obama this fall.
"I am convinced that honoring Sen. Clinton's historic campaign in this way will help us celebrate this defining moment in our history and bring the party together in a strong, united fashion," Obama said.
Details of how the vote will work are still being discussed, though it will probably occur on the third night of the DNC, scheduled for Aug. 25 to 28.
"With every voice heard and the party strongly united, we will elect Sen. Obama president of the United States and put our nation on the path to peace and prosperity once again," Clinton said.
burnetts@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5343 The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Pro-Clinton events scheduled during the DNC
* Colorado Women Count/Women Vote and 18 Million Voices gathering to celebrate Hillary Clinton, meet other supporters.
When: 9 a.m. to 10 p.m. Aug. 25
Where: Confluence Park
* Colorado Women Count/Women Vote and 18 Million Voices Parade
When: 11:45 a.m. Aug. 26
Where: Staging at 14th Avenue and Bannock Street.
* Rally in honor of Hillary Clinton
When: 3 p.m. Aug. 26
Where: Cheesman Park
Of note: Clinton's speech will be shown live on a giant TV screen. Also, speakers, food and music are planned.
* Hillary Now! Parade
When: 11:45 a.m. Aug. 28
Where: Staging at 12th Avenue and Mariposa Street.
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August 14, 2008
11:31 a.m.
Suggest removal
Scott writes:
So what happens if the Hillary lovers vote for her, hence a large showing for Hillary? If that happens it ought to liven things up.
Scott
August 14, 2008
11:40 a.m.
Suggest removal
LingLingfor_prez writes:
Hillary Clinton? Is there a Hillary Clinton here? Anyone?
August 14, 2008
11:41 a.m.
Suggest removal
Oh_Wise_One writes:
Hillary's delegates should vote for her. The Obama supposedly has the nomination or is it a coronation rapped up. Now, if the Baby Momma doesn't give any more speeches.....
August 14, 2008
11:46 a.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Oh wise one........ The Democratic party has already intimidated Hillary Delegates to keep their mouth shut or they may pull them from the list of delegates..................... I wonder how many have already been pulled?
August 14, 2008
12:06 p.m.
Suggest removal
sweetie writes:
I don't trust Obama.I don't like Obama.I will not vote for Obama.
Hillary 08
August 14, 2008
12:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
DownwardDog writes:
I don't trust O'Bambi either, I will not vote for O'Bambi either.
John McCain '08
August 14, 2008
12:23 p.m.
Suggest removal
LingLingfor_prez writes:
All the commercials will consist of, "I'm Jared Polis and I approve this message."
August 14, 2008
12:26 p.m.
Suggest removal
Who_Me writes:
Is it too late to get tickets? I hear there are good seats left at Fiddler's Green.
August 14, 2008
12:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
samsmargolis writes:
Will all the eventual Obama nomination speech ticket-holders who agree to volunteer for his campaign have Obama's pyramid built in time for the election? Just curious...
August 14, 2008
1 p.m.
Suggest removal
DenverDan writes:
Shag, here you go with the personal attacks again. Read and tell me where you fit in on this.
John McCain is running the same Karl Rove, Rush-style campaign that George W. Bush ran four years ago. He's avoiding issues and attempting to tear down our movement with personal attacks and fear mongering.
Not only has McCain voted with Bush 95% of the time, he's adopted the same political playbook. We've seen it all before, and we can't afford 4 or 8 more years of the same low road tactics and disastrous policies.
Obama 08
August 14, 2008
1:08 p.m.
Suggest removal
samsmargolis writes:
"...and then you can refer to him as Mr. President"
Yeah. Well, my reference for him will be slightly different than that of the cult following....
August 14, 2008
1:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
LouiseT writes:
If she submits her name at the convention, she may very well win. Obama is bad news. I have voted democratic for over 20 years, but if Obama is foolishly awarded the nomination, then I will vote for John McCain; and I'll encourage fellow democrats to do the same. Shaggy, why do you think Michelle Obama will not be proud of this decision?
August 14, 2008
1:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
LingLingfor_prez writes:
I can't say what I would call him. It would be removed by our fearless RMN staff.
August 14, 2008
1:18 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
So Big D you are fully supportive of the Democratic Machine intimidating Hillary Delegates. Come quietly or we will not allow you to come to the convention????????
August 14, 2008
1:24 p.m.
Suggest removal
RealifeTauren writes:
This example of divisiveness is what has the current administration, and future carbon copies, wringing their hands with glee. Keep the populace stupid, poor, and bickering, and the revolution never happens.
In the meantime the corporations driving foreign and domestic policy get richer and richer, and our freedoms get gradually eroded, in such a manner as we hardly realize it. Well, even if we do realize it we accept it, because it's to keep us all safe in our beds at night, right?
People treat the constitution like the bible. The pick and choose passages that either support their argument, or can be construed to support their argument, and they ignore the rest, or they ignore the effect and purpose of the document as a whole.
We are so easily led, we deserve what we get.
Maybe Obama will make a difference, but certainly McCain will not.
In the meanwhile, let's condemn the Russian invasion of Georgia. How's our invasion of Iraq going BTW?
August 14, 2008
1:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
cpd writes:
This together with Hil and Bill's prime speech-making time sure make Obama look like a weenie.
August 14, 2008
1:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
DenverDan writes:
Shag, dont smoke the Scooby snacks! Where do you get your info? BS is us. Rush is not real, nor is fox news.
August 14, 2008
2:29 p.m.
Suggest removal
DenverDan writes:
Grunt
If you flip flop for the correct thing. What is wrong with that.
Just because Jr. never would admit he was wrong does not make him correct.
Obama 08
August 14, 2008
2:46 p.m.
Suggest removal
dirkle writes:
Hillary is going to de-pants Obama and give him a wedgie at the convention. Make sure your Tivo / DVR is warmed up!
August 14, 2008
2:52 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Big D.
I thought since I proved you wrong in your accusations against me over the Candle v Excel incident you would rather deal in discussion and dialogue rather than accusations and name calling......... If I remember correctly it was you claiming that you wanted dialogue.............
If you want dialogue, then please lets discuss the fact that Hillary delegates are being taken to the woodshed about their voicing their support of Hillary over Obama. Even questioned on the fact whether or not they should be allowed to be delegates...... I thought this was what a conventions was for??? Is this the correct thing to do?
Will enjoy the discussion. Thanks in advance
August 14, 2008
3:04 p.m.
Suggest removal
sweetpea313 writes:
It will be very, very interesting to hear what the candidates have to say when they meet with Pastor Rick Warren (on Saturday night -- see TIME Magazine article) and try to give us an idea of their religious views -- especially Obama.
August 14, 2008
3:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
sweetpea313 writes:
Shaggy -- you are so right on! How can people not see Obama for who he is and what he HASN'T done? I'm afraid a lot of people are just all riled up about this "new" guy because they don't like Bush -- but that's no reason to make this man the leader our our country!
August 14, 2008
3:36 p.m.
Suggest removal
DenverDan writes:
Shaggy
What experience did bush have? It is ok then not to have it, but now it is a issue! Sounds just like a republican to me.
August 14, 2008
3:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Butts getting kicked....... Hillary delegates taken to the woodshed......shape up or your shipped out............... now that is butt kicking!
August 14, 2008
3:52 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
BBBBButttt BBBuutttt Obama is now for Drilling!
Wait errr......does that mean more liberal protestors????
August 14, 2008
3:52 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
hello kids, hope everyone has had a good week.
"lets discuss the fact that Hillary delegates are being taken to the woodshed about their voicing their support of Hillary over Obama."
colib, i'd be interested in hearing what information has led you to believe that "Hillary delegates are being taken to the woodshed about their voicing their support of Hillary over Obama". it sounds as if there is going to be every opportunity for them to show their support for hillary at the convention.
i believe you might be in danger of repeating a rushian talking point on that one.
shaggy, you've got to calm down and take a breath. as someone pointed out earlier, conservatives like yourself have been relegated to using the same tired old tactic of avoiding discussing actual policy stances and The Track Record in lieu of attacking and swiftboating the opposing candidate.
i see you still haven't risen to the challenge.
wouldn't you feel better about yourself if you actually stepped up to the plate with some substantive positions rather than conspiracy theories about obama turning america into a socialist state?
here....i'll even throw you a beach ball to get you started...why don't you tell us which bush accomplishments warrant a continuation of his policies under mccain?
August 14, 2008
3:55 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Denver Post Jay Denver post........
August 14, 2008
3:57 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Jay is using his Sales classes and wording his questions just as was taught in the Seminars.......Good Boy Jay Good boy........keep practicing in the mirror and dont get distracted by the shiny objects...........
August 14, 2008
3:59 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
also Jay.......
Can you please give us the Reality v Theory lesson you gave us a few weeks ago..... You were soooo right on Dude!
btw.....sorry bad manners.....good afternoon to you also and hope your week is going well....truly
August 14, 2008
4:08 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
rhetoric vs. reality, colib...like you lying about not supporting mccain this november on another thread.
remember kid...that kind of talk is just going to widen your credibility gap.
August 14, 2008
4:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Where did I say that I am supporting McCain. Most definately not putting checkmark near McCain dude......... But I know that my not checking McCain for ANY candidate is a vote for Obama.......
Lying? No my friend.......... Just because I do not support Obama does in no way mean I am supporting McCain...... Not even in your sales logic can that be made into any reality......
Again can we hear your reality speech again from a few weeks ago? You can put your garden hose out again........Tent staters will not be stealing it
August 14, 2008
4:17 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Again as you always say.......
Do you support the DNC telling a Hillary Delegate that she needs explain why she should be kept as a delegate because she still supports Hillary?
Are you defending that tactic? If so how does that fit within any Freedom of Choice?
August 14, 2008
4:22 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
is this the article on which you're basing these conspiracy theories about delegates getting "taken to the woodshed", colib?
do i really have to corner you on your right wing beliefs just because you're going to continue the ruse that you're unaffiliated as far as nov goes?
seems a little tedious, but we can go over the platforms policy stance by policy stance.
shaggy...don't pout.
either elevate your game above spouting mythical attacks or be comfortable with your place here.
August 14, 2008
4:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Lets go Jay. I have told you many times that I am a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. I voted for Al Gore.
Gay marriage - For it.......Hell if heteros are sent to hell then why should the gay community be left out.
Comprehensive Immigration plan.......Have seen some from both parties that I could get behind.
Could care less about the Global warming or climate change Fights for and against. A waste of time because no matter what we need to do something different........ Very much into new alternative energies and conservation for what we have. How are your solar and wind projects coming along Jay? Actually trying to put together an Eco-Green consulting business........
Hate both Pro-Life and Pro-Choice groups.....Lobbyist making billions of dollars and women are paying the price. Personally do not like abortion, but by no means think that abortion should be illegal......
Hate when any freedoms are limited. Unlike you. Whether it be smoking, Patriot act, wiretapping.......
Would legalize most drugs.
REAL CONSERVATIVE values. Freedoms not to be taken away my friend...........
Your contentions?
My fiscal conservatism?
My beliefs that all candidates and their delegates should be heard without bully tactics?
August 14, 2008
4:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Nice shiny object you threw out there Jay. Now back to the subject at hand.
Do you support the tactics of intimidation for Hillary delegates????
August 14, 2008
4:38 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Please corner me on my right wing beliefs Jay? Oh please Dont threaten..... Do rather than threats my friend. Right wing.........If I am right wing, Mr Spagnoulo is way right of you dude
August 14, 2008
4:42 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Again Jay stay on topic.....quit leveling false accusations and threats............ Circle talk time to end......dialogue my friend....dialogue......
But it is your choice to continue in your tactics at will. No wonder you wont meet people out side of the "WEB" At least you know your behaviour is rude and downright uncivil in nature. Give you credit there. At least you dont have to worry about compliments on gentlemanly behaviour.....
August 14, 2008
4:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
denverone writes:
So the 18 million female Nazi voices extorted their way into the convention. Amazing. If this doesn't prove what a wuss Osama is nothing will.
Drop your pants and bend over for the Clintons, Osama.
One more reminder to you weak minded sheepish Dems, Bill and his puppet Hillary don't really want Osama to win the election so she can run in 2012. What does that feel like hanging over your coronation, Osama??
August 14, 2008
4:52 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Denverone........ if you believe in the Mayan calendar, The voting will have been decided for president.......but will never be realized......... now isnt that a kick in the onions.......
August 14, 2008
5:21 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Jay you have not proven any credibility gap. Not 1. I have told you my beliefs.......you have told us squat. You place yourself behind sales tactic type questions and act all smug about it. You very rarely answer any question, but you DEMAND yours be answered.......Yea Credibility Jay........
One question I have asked before but never get an answer...
How do you deal with your career choice. Executive Placement Correct? How do you manage your desire to limit executive Pay at the same time getting the best pay you can for your Executive clients,......with Commissions Attached............ Credibility Jay......
August 14, 2008
5:42 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Jay you have abandoned the Tent State conversations since they announced their change in venue. No cries for overnight camping at their new venue I see.
NOW that they are not in your front or back yard after 11pm......you seem quite content Mr City Park Resident. But Oh yea you support them to the end............. Credibility Jay?
August 14, 2008
5:54 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
"Hate when any freedoms are limited. Unlike you."
"How do you manage your desire to limit executive Pay"
?
i'm sorry, colib, you're gonna have to tell us what information you're using to come to this conpsiracy theory.
and still waiting on that info you used to come to your conspiracy theory about delegates getting "taken to the woodshed".
hint: the time honored far right wing tactic of attacking your opponent isn't going to work either...
why don't you tell us which of the candidate's iraq plans you support?
how about mccain's tax plans?
hey, i know...why don't you tell us why we should allow mccain to give big oil another 4 billion in corporate welfare.
shaggy...as i said...elevate your game or come to terms with being this blog's jester.
pouting about it isn't an option.
August 14, 2008
6:07 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Jay Look it up.....Denver post........ not your research Biatch anymore.
As I have repeated your memory is as short as your P%cker.......
I was against going into Iraq from the get go. I support getting out as soon as we can within reason. I think that McCain and Obama have come closer to a date than what they were during the primaries..... Said that would happen with Leftside.... Only you disagreed and threw a fit.
Are you or are you not an Executive Placement recruiter as you have stated in the past? If you have not changed your mind nor your career, how do you work your conscience with that one?
I am for most freedoms Jay. You have regularly stated where your choice of freedoms ends........ Simple
Again JAY I AM A FISCAL CONSERVATIVE. How many ways or times do I have to spell that out. Therefore I would side more with a Fiscal conservative...... Sheesh Jay...... I cant remember calling anyone a name.......without a (j/K) comment, but about to put forth some questions that involve derrogatory names Jay. So dont be surprised by me being a fiscal conservative, that I would side with fiscal conservative ideas.
So me being a fiscal conservative and a social liberal therefore makes me a Right Winger??????
Jay your credibility is lacking here and so are your manners........ If I had such a credibility gap then why did I extend my hand to you other liberals and to conservatives alike to put up or shut up and meet to discuss like ladies and gentlemen? Excuses excuses.
You are skirting the questions by playing possum jay. Credibility Jay.......Credibility..........
August 14, 2008
6:11 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Jay you keep forgetting the Reality lesson you tried teaching us all a few weeks ago........ Have not seen you fighting lately for the rights of TentStaters since they changed venue from your neighborhood to anothers............... Credibility Jay Reality Jay.........Keep em coming dude...
August 14, 2008
6:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
rhetoric vs. reality...and apparently we're going to have to go over it again as you seem to be unable once again to back up your right wing rhetoric with factual info, colib.
still waiting on that info...
August 14, 2008
6:23 p.m.
Suggest removal
gale writes:
And Obama wants to help this monster pay off her debt, a debt she ran up being irresponsible .... and apparently with this story, still is.
August 14, 2008
6:23 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Still waiting for your info.... You have provided nothing but questions to the conversation Jay...... 0.
Others questioned me and when multiple people showed them the site they ran...... no thankyous. F((& yous or nothing...... So once you figure Google out then let me know
Reality Jay........ Where have you been backing the freedoms of tent staters........... you wanted to give them and only them a pass because they were going to be in your yard...... Now it doesnt matter.......
WHAT RIGHT WING rhetoric?
Executive Recruiter or NOT? easy to answer jay........
August 14, 2008
6:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
jay writes:
so...i take it we're done.
i've asked you to provide info supporting your right wing conspiracy theories and personal attacks about me and you've failed to do so.
duly noted.
NEXT
August 14, 2008
6:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Jay.... Tell you what I am willing to do. I will show you the proof of a Hillary candidate telling the news agency about her run in with the Democratic Machine calling her into the office asking her why they should let her continue to be a Democratic Delegate when she openly supports Hillary........... I will show you this........What is on the table my friend? What is on the table? Put up or shut up....... Knowing you, you will put some lamebrain excuse out there......... You always do.........
August 14, 2008
6:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Jay boy pouting? Look it up. You refuse to answer my questions but when I withhold something that takes maybe 30 seconds to look up you throw a hissy fit. Dude Grow up.
Personal attacks? What personal attacks......... You stated in the past that you were an executive recruiter.........asked you a logical question on how your personal beliefs blended in with your job duties and commissions..........
You attacked first. Called me names......Did not take it personally.....but did ask you for details and proof......
Now until you can ante up or quit pouting...... the corner is waaayyyy over there ----------------->>>>>
August 14, 2008
6:46 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Jay......told you where the story is...........Look it up......Denver Post.....the official home of Right Wing Conspiracy.......... YEA RIGHT
As a popular movie stated....... "tit for tat Clarise"
August 14, 2008
6:55 p.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Jay personal attacks? Who attacked who on multiple threads here today? That would be you my friend........... Nice try.......need a hanky?
August 14, 2008
7:53 p.m.
Suggest removal
drkenne writes:
Clinton is important because???????????? Heck, for someone who touted the fact that she was more experienced and ready to lead, she didn't really show that during the primary when Obama out-campaigned her. If the democrats want to keep the GOP from continuing to diminish our constitutional rights, they better get their act together. I can only imagine the damage four more years of the Bush/McCain doctrine will rain down on this great country...well that was until this criminal administration took us to war and reduced our world standing.
August 14, 2008
8:50 p.m.
Suggest removal
1world writes:
Apparently Shaggy and MarineGrunt want another 4 - 8 years of McBush. I for one would find that to be most oppressive. I do not believe that McBush's Foreign Policy is anything to be desired - threaten war first? What is that all about? What ever happened to discussions and diplomacy? Those are not in McBush's little bag of tricks - he just wants war profiteering to continue.
McBush would also like you to believe that we will save money at the pump by drilling offshore. What he doesn't tell you and Obama does, is that at our current rate of usage we will exhaust that within 2 years - at the rate we would exhaust it by the time we could ramp up to drill that oil (7 years), that goes down to almost 1 year worth of oil. It is a blip, a kernel of hope.
McBush scares the hell out of me (and he should you too). I spent 3 years in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Middle East and there was no reason for us to be in Iraq. The current politicians lied to get us in there and we (the world) are no better for it. McBush is of the same cut as his predecessors and the only qualification he has over Obama is that he is older. Oh sure, he was a POW for many years. That is NOT a qualification!
If McBush is elected, I will sell my houses, liquidate my stocks, 401k, drain my bank accounts and move out of this country and not look back - there is this great place I keep returning to in New Zealand that might be my new home. By electing a leader of the same ilk as we currently have is just pathetic and ignorant! I am still shaking my head that we elected that buffoon TWICE! Now some of you want to elect the wrinkly white haired dude?
August 14, 2008
10:44 p.m.
Suggest removal
ColdShot writes:
Start packing now 1world...you will not be missed! I am sure its another lib empty promise!
August 14, 2008
11:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
BJG writes:
The BO people had better start to watch the polls. Their man is running a close second to McCain in almost all states. BO is a very poor debater and will probably lose most of his debates with the big Mac. I am not a Republican, never have been and probably never will be, but I am having a hard time voting for the BO. I am leaning toward a write in candidate: Hillary Clinton.
The BO has just flip flopped too many time in the past few months for me. Not enough experience, too indecisive.
August 15, 2008
5:51 a.m.
Suggest removal
Keith43 writes:
None of the three contenders will get my vote. They're all losers!
August 15, 2008
8:58 a.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Froward and Big_D
First of all, I think that Obama will win the primary and win the General election........so we dont have to go there.
Do you approve the political hacking that has gone on with the DNC and first not wanting to give Hillary a roll call, and 2 do you think it was heavy handed of Democratic Machine to try and "fire" a Hillary delegate as she did not support Obama to another delegate?
Lastly I do not support McCain. I would however like to get your take on the middle piece of the post.
Also....... Are you still promoting the idea that the Arkansas Democratic Chair was killed by a Far Right wing nut and how are you finding that as fact because the sites I have seen have defined No Motive.
Thanks in advance
August 15, 2008
9:16 a.m.
Suggest removal
fatheromalley writes:
Wow... do tell.. I hope after they vote and Obama still gets the nomination, all Clinton supporters go out and vote 3rd party!
That'll mean my vote will count that much more..
Same Party, two heads! Cap and Trade, Open Borders, Global Warming hysteria, more government, less freedom...more taxes hidden in government taxes on corporations.
Taxing success is like scre-ing for virginity..
Mandate compulsive payment of a tax to be given to others?
Mandated Ethanol raising the price of staple food for the starving millions? (Environmental, Collective)
Mandated Mercury Filled Light Bulbs? (Environmental, Collective)
Mandating no drilling for over 30 years through activist Lawyers? (Environmental, Collective)
Mandating taxation where it is less expensive to ship raw oil into the world market than refining domestic oil, domestically? (Environmental, Collective)
Mandating a non-toxic, odorless, tasteless substance a pollutant? (Environmental, Collective)
Mandated every establishment be a "non-smoking" establishment for the "common good"? (Environmental, Collective)
Mandating the "Polar bear" endangered after a 700% increase in Polar bear population in the past 11 years? (Fill in the blank)
Mandated 19 different blends of gasoline by the environmental movement's influence? (Fill in the blank)
Mandated minimum wage meant for child labor the perpetuates a welfare state and their votes?
Mandated medical insurance minimum coverages by state? (Activist Medical Trial Lawyers)
Mandated FICA taxes and Employer Matching Funds Taxes (50% of FICA that employee owes the Federal Government which is forced without choice?)
Honor to the Party comrades! See you in the bread lines.. we can talk about the "good old days", when individual liberty was seen as the way for EVERY ONE to achieve their goals.
Sticking it to the man, is sticking it to yourselves.. but go back to sleep now.. sweet dreams lads and lasses!
www.numbersusa.org
www.votesmart.org
www.fairtax.org
www.petitionproect.org
www.jihadwatch.org
or www.fatheromalley.com where there are click throughs to all the above..
Love to all,
Father O'Malley
August 15, 2008
9:46 a.m.
Suggest removal
COLibertarian writes:
Froward thank you for your candid comments. I am truly glad you support your candidate and have all faith in the dealings of that campaign.
I however do not feel that from either party. This is big business and the stakes are high. Rumors but no facts.
Nice and effective tactic is to discredit any person with a Rush tag. Intimidation is a great tool.......... For both Parties. To think that the candidates on both sides are not using heavy handed tactics to "line" things up is being naive at best.
To think that Hillary and her group is not causing problems, I would be wrong to think that politics is still not being played
Another example are the 2 council people for Denver that raised a stink regarding funding and approval. That big a stink.....then 1 little meeting and both are marching to the press to say everything is ok. Just a disagreement in how contracts and equipment is purchased............ I bet you a few bagels or doughnuts an coffee that if your employees used that excuse for writing contracts and buying of equipment, you would not have taken it quite so well.............. It was a loophole and not very ethical.
And yes we can go on about McCain and that campaign. If you want me to regurgitate your stuff to sattisfy that I am being Bipartisan and not a Right Winger.....then we can do that.
August 15, 2008
9:52 a.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Froward, I guess I take a much more skeptical look at politics than you. From both sides.
If I were to be happy as a clam with just the word "Change" then heck ya I would volunteer, campaign and be an all around Obama guy. But I feel that talking about "Change" from the traditional 2 party system is a campaign slogon, not a commitment nor a true reality from any presidential candidate. We were to see "Change" , promised "Change" in 2006 and well we see where we are now........... Do you think R68 and the other groups protesting at the DNC would be out in force if "Change" really happened?
August 15, 2008
10:11 a.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Big_D What have you ever debated with me on? I ask for your feedback and create dialogue, but you jump off into tangents are apply name calling without any dialogue. The candle / Excel incident is prime example becuase you got trapped in a name calling excercise.
To Both you and Froward!!!!! How are you backing your accusations that the Arkansas shooting as a right winger/republican type...... You have both posted url's as examples and in ALL of those urls' it is stated NO MOTIVE found. And because we will not take your campaign slogons, brow beating and name calling as proof. You have consistently backed away from detailed discussions that affect all of us, never to return on that topic..... Example HC.
You ask for dialogue....... But when questions are asked you fire back with campaign slogons and no facts with name calling to boot.
Open dialogue dude.....Open dialogue. Hell I will buy the coffee.......... I extend my hand.....what are you going to do?
August 15, 2008
10:38 a.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Nice Post Froward.
Agree that change takes time and that it can be a good or bad thing for being slow.
My feelings are that things really havent changed in quite awhile......yes some of the platforms have evolved ever so slowly for both parties, but really nothing changed.
Energy great example. Yes it will always be cyclical but we are no different that we were in early to mid 70's. We have been reactionary, ambivolent, and downright negligent in our decisions.
No real change in over 30 yrs. That is not slow to come.....that is non-existent. We have Republicans and Democrats, Presidents and Congress to blame for this. While for part of that time we both were more interested in girls, bikes and cars at that time, but we are to blame also........as a community as a country
August 15, 2008
10:42 a.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Froward please accept my apologies as I never meant to put you in the discussion of not creating dialogue........ If you saw that I was wrong and again please accept my apology on that error
In the energy post above by me, I left out that you and I and others are personally taking alternative energy serious. I did not mean to misconstrue that piece as we are at fault......meant we as a whole have failed to make our leaders accountable in those areas....
August 15, 2008
10:55 a.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Froward, On the City council item. They came running out of that meeting explaining the error of what they stated........ It was quick succint and to me seemed forced..... I could be wrong......but when have you ever seen any councilperson quick to identify the errors of their ways? I have never seen it........
Froward, I think it is a big stretch to say only Democrats get assisinated........... I think we may have a slightly different view on the definition of assasination..........
The Arkansas case defines the guy as a loner, working in Target. He is in the bible belt, but no talk of him being a big church goer. (not that there is anything wrong with that!)
If he is a right winger, then Go For It........Raise the signs to the skies...... Conservatives Kill. They are out to get us all.... I dont buy into that personally, but your choice and freedoms to do so. I just find it a bit difficult to stomach to make those claims when the motives are not there yet to post all over the Blogs as being fact. Do you see my concern in this area?
August 15, 2008
11:51 a.m.
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jay writes:
back to the strawman arguments colib?
"If he is a right winger, then Go For It........Raise the signs to the skies...... Conservatives Kill. They are out to get us all.... I dont buy into that personally, but your choice and freedoms to do so. "
no one is saying that "conservatives kill and are out to get us all".
"To think that the candidates on both sides are not using heavy handed tactics to "line" things up is being naive at best."
no one has said that both sides aren't using heavy handed tactics to "line things up"
let's try to the keep the discussion factual today shall we and we can avoid the little willful ignorance dance.
fatheromalley...socialism boogeyman stories might play well with the rush limbaugh crowd, but here on planet earth we've established that neither candidate is going to plunge the us into socialism...no matter how many times you hear that kind of crap from mike rosen. this tactic is a close cousin to the rhetoric we hear about a vote for democrats being a vote for the terrorists.
finally, colib, are you saying that both parties are equally to blame for stagnating our energy policy over the last 30 years?
i could be wrong here, but i think you're once again in danger of trying to disperse the lion's share of the blame for an issue away from the republicans and equally on to both parties.
we saw this kind of tactic from you in regards to The Track Record of the last 8 years...unless of course i have you confused with someone else...which is possible.
do i have your position on that issue correct or am i in danger of misstating it?
August 15, 2008
12:33 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Big D. The candle and excel energy question was factually based. The family that had their power shut off and townhome burned because they left a candle lit. Right. You were all up in arms because people were not being considerate to the situation. I said it was a tragedy but what would you feel if they were at the movies when townhome burnt, instead of the assumption they were home in bed? Remember that? Well it was not a rhetorical question It was Fact. I told you to look it up but you continued the attack of rhetorical because it was not in the RMN.
What is false premise of Clinton Delegate being questioned for her non support of Obama? It happened. Are you saying that I made this up? Be specific Big D
You have posted that the Arkansas shooting was right wing fact. I am asking you if you still stand by that.
August 15, 2008
12:42 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
jay
you state "no one is saying that "conservatives kill and are out to get us all"." Read the threads and those posted stating it as fact........... You are wrong there jay. Inferred and stated in black and white both............ Go look it up.
Through the 70's until now I think that the Dems had majority in Congress. Presidential would be more to Reps during that time. We would have to look at the energy voting records to see how that all unfolded in past 30 yrs. If it is more on Republicans, then it is more on the Republicans. Blame away. But what does that do other than campaign fodder? What are you doing to help in energy alternatives? Solve the damn problem..... Blaming and twisting your carp around here does nothing but waste the time chasing your carp and questions down. Step up and back your words and blame with action Jay.
Ok I have answered your questions Jay and you are yet to answer mine. You spouted Reality and Credibility Jay. I asked you very specific questions. Quit your pouting and answer.......
August 15, 2008
12:46 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Jay
Track record of Last 8 yrs was not me. If it were, you and I would not be having a long drawn out discussion............. You would have agreed with most of my comments on that!
August 15, 2008
12:53 p.m.
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jay writes:
"you state "no one is saying that "conservatives kill and are out to get us all"." Read the threads and those posted stating it as fact"
i did read the thread and thus have correctly accused you of using a strawman argument.
" But what does that do other than campaign fodder?"
i'm just establishing a point, colib. nothing more. let's not pretend that the blame for our stagnating energy policies is equally shared by both parties, okay?
i have no idea what you're talking about as far as my rhetoric vs reality tutoring sessions.
about what are you still confused?
glad to see we can agree that the failures of the last 8 years are by far the republicans to own.
still waiting on that info to support your right wing positions stated above btw.
August 15, 2008
1:02 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
jay 1st COLibertarian,
I am trying to engage in dialogue... I type slow, bear with me.
ok we will find out more of the shooter in Ark. in the comming days.
please understand it is the Democrats who get assassinated. right wing am radio espouses hunting Democrats.
with the recent shooting in Tenn. and the shooter admitting to hate "Liberals"... it is not that big of a stretch to conclude Democrats are being Hunted by Right wing Neo-cons.
EACH 1 I PROVIDE IS A CUP OF COFFEE YOU NEED TO BUY ME OR WE CAN GO AT MY BILLING RATE.....NOT HIGH BUT WITH YOUR QUESTIONS COULD GET EXPENSIVE.
Lunch....back with more for you
August 15, 2008
1:24 p.m.
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jay writes:
so what you're saying, colib, is that you used a strawman argument by stating that liberals believe that all conservatives kill and "are out to get us all".
thanks for admitting that and actually debunking your own myth.
August 15, 2008
2:22 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Jay I did not say it........Froward stated in this thread and in other threads.....So did Big_D
Again I will copy paste for you as you do not do your own work here.......
Froward stated at:
August 15, 2008
10:29 a.m.
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Froward69 writes:
COLibertarian,
I am trying to engage in dialogue... I type slow, bear with me.
ok we will find out more of the shooter in Ark. in the comming days.
please understand it is the Democrats who get assassinated. right wing am radio espouses hunting Democrats.
with the recent shooting in Tenn. and the shooter admitting to hate "Liberals"... it is not that big of a stretch to conclude Democrats are being Hunted by Right wing Neo-cons.
There you go....Not my words....... do you really listen or do you just read or hear the first few words and then work on your response?
August 15, 2008
2:28 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Jay #2
August 14, 2008
8:50 a.m.
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GILPINMAN writes:
I wish they would drop them off in the wilderness. The locals up here would show them the hospitality they deserve.
August 14, 2008
8:59 a.m.
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Froward69 writes:
GILPINMAN,
like the Church goers in Tennessee?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/28/c...
or Arkansas?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/0...
August 15, 2008
2:36 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Jay Questions you have yet to answer. Pulled from previous posts on this thread.......
Reality Jay........ Where have you been backing the freedoms of tent staters........... you wanted to give them and only them a pass because they were going to be in your yard...... Now it doesnt matter.......
Are you or are you not an Executive Placement recruiter as you have stated in the past? If you have not changed your mind nor your career, how do you work your conscience with that one?
Jay you have abandoned the Tent State conversations since they announced their change in venue. No cries for overnight camping at their new venue I see.
NOW that they are not in your front or back yard after 11pm......you seem quite content Mr City Park Resident. But Oh yea you support them to the end............. Credibility Jay
Jay you have not proven any credibility gap. Not 1. I have told you my beliefs.......you have told us squat. You place yourself behind sales tactic type questions and act all smug about it. You very rarely answer any question, but you DEMAND yours be answered.......Yea Credibility Jay........
One question I have asked before but never get an answer...
How do you deal with your career choice. Executive Placement Correct? How do you manage your desire to limit executive Pay at the same time getting the best pay you can for your Executive clients,......with Commissions Attached............ Credibility Jay
August 15, 2008
2:39 p.m.
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jay writes:
"Where have you been backing the freedoms of tent staters........... you wanted to give them and only them a pass because they were going to be in your yard...... Now it doesnt matter"
yet another strawman argument, colib. i'm all for allowing the tent staters to camp overnight wherever they land.
yes, i own a recruiting company...but this :
"How do you manage your desire to limit executive Pay at the same time getting the best pay you can for your Executive clients"
is still a strawman argument.
is that all you have...conspiracy theories and strawman arguments?
kind of expected a little more from you after our little talk yesterday.
August 15, 2008
2:39 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
jay copy paste #3 on Arkansas discussion. First post below is first on thread
August 13, 2008
12:37 p.m.
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danirobi writes:
Waiting for all the Democrats to claim it was some right wing nut job that did it...
August 13, 2008
1:47 p.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
Rush Limbaugh and Mike Rosen, conservative propagandists, have been inciting violence. Here's the basic 3-step technique they use:
STEP 1. Apply racism and other stereotypes to the hated category of people. For example, portray liberals as long-haired, "pinko", "commies", unwashed hippies and bums who are looking for a handout and prone to violence. This includes calling African Americans racists when they remind us of our history of slavery and injustice. Doesn't that make you uncomfortable? You're conscience might bug you to do something about it! Rosen and Limbaugh have staffs of dedicated bigots who comb the news reports looking for anecdotes to support their bigotry and make excuses for social injustice.
STEP 2. Boil the pot saying how "those people" will lead us to our doom. Add in how they've taken over the government and now the real oppressors can bring you under their tent and make you an "oppressed" victim along with themselves. The irony of this is seen when you realize that the only reasonable reply to conservative billionaires who want to play victim and get you to join their club is laughter and derision.
STEP 3. Fool the police and others with firearms or the skills to build bombs into going along with the scare tactics.
And there's your formula from political murder and mayhem.
It's been around for a while. Timothy McVeigh bombed a federal building killing 168 unsuspecting employees, their visitors, and kids in a day care center based on the rantings of Rush Limbaugh back in 1995.
Lately, a Unitarian church full of people was shot up because the guy hated liberals.
Never mind about the demonstrators and college kids protesting the war. Look for right-wing provocation agents at the DNC.
Let history be your guide.
Will continue on next post for you JAY
August 15, 2008
2:42 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
cont. Jay
August 13, 2008
5:31 p.m.
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HolierThanThou writes:
Read what I wrote if you're not sure what it says. What I did not say is that the shooting is "someone else's fault".
What I did say what that conservatives are inciting violence against people who have different ideas and often lots of ideas. All that new stuff frightens your typical conservative. Whether you choose to believe conservative nonsense, self-pity, and paranoia is YOUR CHOICE.
Conservatives and drug addicts have a lot in common. In fact, many of the most popular conservative commentators ARE drug addicts. When you put garbage into your body and mind then you will emit garbage. Ultimately, you are still responsible for the garbage you put in yourself no matter how good it feels at the time.
Conservatives have been on a fear and self-pity jag since they lost the Civil War. It's always the lib'rals this and the gubmint that. I won't bother with that other word they used to call us. When a conservative gets fired from his job he blames the lib'rals. Doesn't matter that plenty of liberals like myself advocate protection of American jobs and a union to help the man stand up to management. Let's not forget a national health plan that might help the dude with his mental issues.
He's been listening to the rants of Rush Limbaugh, which says that it can't possibly be incompetent or greedy managers that cost you your job. It must be (you guessed it) those welfare-loving liberals in some kind of conspiracy. So, in a fit of rage, that coincidently happens right around the time Rush Limbaugh is broadcasting his show, the newly unemployed dude grabs his pistol and murders the Chairman of the Democratic Party in his state.
My point is not that it's all Rush Limbaugh's fault. His part in the crime was to incite the crime. Some believers of Rush Limbaugh act on the crap the he spews. They bear all the blame for their own crimes and the undesirable results of conservatism that Americans now have to put up with.
One fine day, all Americans will see conservatism for the steaming pile crap that it is. We'll look back and wonder how people could be so cruel and naive much the way we now look back in history at the chains and auction blocks where people were sold like animals
August 13, 2008
7:43 p.m.
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Conservativeslayer writes:
The Southern Poverty Law Center is an organization that tracks hate groups (KKK, Neo-Nazis, etc). One of the tactics of these hate group leaders is using "Lone Wolfs". The leaders of these movements make veiled calls for violence against minorities. They don't come right and say go kill. They do it subtly, so they can't be hold criminally responsible. They just hope a "lone wolf" picks up on their calls and commits violent acts. Isn't it funny that the leaders of the "Right-wing" also operate this way?
August 15, 2008
2:49 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Jay answer the questions..... After you gave us the silent treatment so you could cry in the corner? Thought you were done..........
You cried and BEGGED for answers to let the Tent staters stay at the park in City Park........ What are they going to do at 11pm? Right...that was your sales question. When we explained what they should do and how they should go about it......Reality....REality......... We were not being realistic........Well Jay what happened? You were wrong.
You WERE only concerned about your property and the people leaving the park at 11......not worried about the protesters....now that they have moved to new park....do not see you worrying about this so much......they still have to leave at 11......but not thru your neighborhood........
Jay you talked credibility........ How do you manage your convinctions when you have to get an Executive the Best pay or you are not doing your job...... But if you do get them the best pay, it does not fall in line with your beliefs that executive pay is too high.......
Simple questions......answer the questions jay.
August 15, 2008
2:58 p.m.
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jay writes:
i have absolutely no clue what you're talking about at this point, colib. what position was those cut and pastes supposed to support?
what was a wrong about in regards to the tent staters, colib?
you can't just keep throwing out conspiracy theories without any info to support them.
"You WERE only concerned about your property and the people leaving the park at 11."
again...this is a strawman argument. repeating it doesn't change that fact.
please see my comments above...politically inconvenient as they may be for you.
"Jay you talked credibility........ How do you manage your convinctions when you have to get an Executive the Best pay or you are not doing your job...... But if you do get them the best pay, it does not fall in line with your beliefs that executive pay is too high......."
yet another strawman argument.
i'll ask again....is that all you have...conspiracy theories and strawman arguments?
now...do you actually have questions i can answer or can we move on in the hope that you'll elevate your game a little?
August 15, 2008
3 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Jay as I have said Talking smack online is belittling.....even for you............
Jay put up or step off dude........
I have honored your questions...... even though you make assumptions and put in different context for your arguments.........
For once be a gentleman...... be civil.......... you attack and punch and jab as long as you think you can and then cry foul when it does not suit you....... I have NEVER seen you answer anyones question without criticizing them and in the end not answering fully. You make excuses.
BUT you DEMAND others answer your questions.......... and when you dont like answer you throw a fit. Make accusations that you dont worry about backing up......... Then asked to debate and create dialogue face to face in group setting.......you cry that you are afraid of people on here.......why because you treat everyone on here like carp...........non-stop. Step up or step off Jay...........
August 15, 2008
3:03 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
jay you stated today:
"August 15, 2008
11:51 a.m.
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jay writes:
back to the strawman arguments colib?
"If he is a right winger, then Go For It........Raise the signs to the skies...... Conservatives Kill. They are out to get us all.... I dont buy into that personally, but your choice and freedoms to do so. "
no one is saying that "conservatives kill and are out to get us all"."
You said that. I have copy pasted those that have said that Conservatives are out there to kill liberals.......
August 15, 2008
3:06 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
I answered your question with who jay.
So are you saying you were not all bent out of shape about the 11pm curfew and what were they to do? you didnt repeat that lame argument question multiple times?
the 11pm was your rant and now it is a strawman????????? We were right about what would happen but you kept crying......buut 11pm what are they going to do......... Problem solved for you Jay. Just like we stated in that thread.
August 15, 2008
3:10 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
jay your credibility and what you believe compared to how you live your life is not a strawman my friend.......... It is reality. Sorry to give you the cold hard facts there bud. It IS what you do. It is how you make your living....IT is the message you put on here......the 2 dont mix well. Just seeing how you justify it. But now I know you just ignore it...............
August 15, 2008
3:19 p.m.
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jay writes:
colib, why am i repeating this stuff...did you not see it above?
you used a strawman argument when you claimed that liberals believe all conservatives kill and are "out to get us all".
why are you still confused about that?
i find it hard to believe that you understand what a strawman argument is when you still don't understand that you've misstated my position on the tent staters...and thus have used a strawman.
now...what questions do you still have?
stop attacking me and tell me why you're still having trouble understanding the answers i've given.
August 15, 2008
3:37 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Jay take my comments in CONTEXT of the argument and then apply them to what you and I have been discussing. You will find what is being said and in the context of what is being said. Easy stuff Jay and also said I do not subscribe to that.....but their freedoms to do so........ and then I copy pasted their beliefs.......... Froward said that it was the democrats being assasinated................ which leads to the fact that if not the democrats it must be the conservatives and republicans...........
They said it not me.......just slamming the unsupported facts home..............
Quit attacking? You started it buddy! You desperately want to put me into a bucket...
Jay I will pull your old posts from Tent State discussions and show you what you said............ and what we said would happen.
paraphrase..... you; What will they do at 11pm Where will they go? US...Multiple people..... Jung needs to find an alternative. Many locations that he and his group can look at staying so that they have a place to protest and to sleep. Then you repeat your question of 11pm..... Repeat Repeated until I said that they could stay overnight there...but with condition that groups be given same opportunity in future......well you didnt like that last part.......... and then repeat what will they do after 11pm............... and used rhetoric v reality rhetoric v reality............
Reality is they have changed venues........... They are having issues with new venue (although not as great) but I do not hear you fighting for their rights....posting other places.....but once they left your neighborhood..........you shut up................ YOU REALLY HAD THEIR BACK JAY
Stop attacking? Not attacking, but asking pointed questions because you brought up the credibility issue yesterday.
If that is a problem, then say so.......but dont attack nor attempt to question my credibility........
August 15, 2008
3:56 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Jay you are also using your question in completely the wrong context.
You stated: "you used a strawman argument when you claimed that liberals believe all conservatives kill and are "out to get us all"." Your statement not mine
I did NOT say "all conservatives" I said "conservatives"
Again in the context with the rest of my post... explains the context of the discussion with Froward and their contention that Conservatives are killing Democrats not vice versa...... Again I backed up their statements with their posts stating exactly that........
Next time you quote me, do so correctly......and then dont mask it with your strawman carp........ Jay again Credibility......Credibility
August 15, 2008
4:17 p.m.
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COLibertarian writes:
Later everyone......going to Happy Hour with my liberal and conservative friends for fun and entertaining conversations.........
Keep up the good fight Jay....... you can defeat em all on your own.
August 15, 2008
4:18 p.m.
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jay writes:
once again, colib...you have failed to address WHY your arguments in these instances are strawmen and why mine were not.
calm down, take a breath.
tell me what answers i've given to your questions that still confuse you.