Avs thrashed by Red Wings
By Rick Sadowski, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published April 26, 2008 at 2:12 p.m.
What do the Avs have to do in order to compete with the Red Wings?
Photo by © Associated Press
Colorado's Paul Stastny is checked by Detroit's Henrik Zetterberg during the Game 2 of the teams' Western Conference semifinal series on Saturday in Detroit.
DETROIT – Might it be time for an Avalanche goalie change?
Jose Theodore failed to last through the second period for the second game in a row Saturday and the Avalanche limped out of Joe Louis Arena, having absorbed a 5-1 defeat at the hands of the Detroit Red Wings.
But coach Joel Quenneville strongly suggested that he isn’t ready to start Peter Budaj when the series resumes Tuesday night at the Pepsi Center.
“We’ll talk about everything, but Jose’s been our guy,” Quenneville said. “Coming off what he went through is not easy. I thought ‘Boods’ did a real nice job in relief again, but Jose’s the one who brought us here.”
After losing the first two games of the best-of-seven Western Conference semifinal series, the Avalanche has plenty to think about – and at least as many adjustments to make – if it’s going to have any chance to crawl back into the series.
“This is not what we expected,” Avalanche captain Joe Sakic said. “They’ve got a good hockey team over there. It’s definitely a good thing we have a couple days right now because we need to regroup and figure out how we’re going to come back and play better.
“We started running around. You do that against them, they’re going to find holes. There’s a fine line between playing them tight and . . . you want to play them tight, but you always want to make sure that you’re not giving up open ice in the slot and running after them, which we got caught doing.”
It would help if left wing Peter Forsberg and defenseman Scott Hannan are available for Game 3. Forsberg (groin) took the pregame warmup but was scratched for the second game in a row and Hannan (lower body injury) sat out for the first time this postseason.
Quenneville said the decision to scratch Forsberg again was made after the warmup.
“He knows his body and he said he was unable to go,” Quenneville said. “Sure, we’d love to have him in our lineup. I mean, he’s made a real impact since he’s been here. He’s dangerous when he’s on the ice. He certainly gives the opposition a lot to think about. We certainly could have used him, but he’ll get three more days (of treatments) and the fact he took warmups has got to mean he’s pretty close.”
Theodore, who played so well against Minnesota in the first round, gave up three goals on five shots in a 6:07 stretch of the second period Saturday and was replaced by Budaj, who has stopped 39 of 40 shots in two relief appearances against the Red Wings.
“I have to do my job whenever I get called upon to be ready,” said Budaj, who didn’t want to discuss any possible goaltending change for Game 3. “You have to ask the coach about that. It’s not my call. Jose is the guy who got us here. We’ll see what’s going to happen.”
Theodore yielded four goals on 20 shots Saturday and four goals on 16 shots in Game 1, when he was ill and got pulled at 1:13 of the second period.
“I was fine,” he said of his health after Saturday’s game. “They’re a good team and as a goalie you have to be ready and be able to make a difference even though you got outshot or whatever. You have to keep the score really low and I didn’t do that.”
The Avalanche didn’t find a way to stop Red Wings forward Johan Franzen, either. “Mule,” as he’s called by his teammates, recorded a hat trick Saturday and has five goals and an assist in the series.
“Right now he’s playing real well and taking advantage of his opportunities,” Red Wings coach Mike Babcock said. “He’s a big man and he’s hard to control when he gets in tight.”
Franzen opened the scoring at 4:22 of the first period when he tipped Mikael Samuelsson’s point shot behind Theodore on a power play; then came from behind the net and flipped the puck over Theodore’s right arm on a power play at 4:04 of the second period; and knocked the rebound of Henrik Zetterberg’s shot out of the air for a short-handed goal against Budaj at 8:47 of the third period.
Valtteri Filppula and Zetterberg scored the other goals for Detroit. Filppula put a back-hander by Theodore at 5:42 of the second period after the goalie steered Dallas Drake’s shot off the endboards, and Zetterberg scored on a rush at 10:11 after cruising through the Avalanche defense.
Budaj replaced Theodore after Zetterberg’s goal, and 19 seconds later Cody McCormick fought with Darren McCarty to begin a parade of Avalanche players to the penalty box.
The Avalanche took five penalties in a row, the first two by Cody McLeod for high-sticking and interference, followed by Ruslan Salei (slashing), Ben Guite (roughing) and Jeff Finger (cross-checking).
The string of penalties put the Red Wings on the power play for all but eight seconds in an 8:22 stretch that included two five-on-three advantages. They totaled 12
shots during the stretch but didn’t score.
Ian laperriere scored the Avalanche’s only goal at 2:38 of the third period.
Despite the 2-0 lead, Babcock said there is no reason for the Red Wings to have any kind of letdown.
“It was the same situation in the last series,” Babcock said. “We went into Nashville and didn’t win a game. Forsberg will be back and Theodore was sick and he’s been outstanding in the playoffs and he’ll be back and he’ll be better.
“We know they’ll be everything we can handle.”
ETC.: With Hannan unavailable, Finger returned to the Avalanche lineup. He was scratched for the last four games against Minnesota and Game 1 against Detroit. Finger took a roughing penalty at 2:42 of the first period and Johan Franzen converted on the ensuing power play . . . Zetterberg had 10 shots on goal and Franzen had six . . . The Red Wings outshot the Avalanche 40-21, giving them a 76-42 advantage in two games. That doesn’t count missed or blocked shots, a telling number because the Red Wings always seemed to have control of the puck.
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April 26, 2008
2:26 p.m.
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jlstaud writes:
It stinks to loose three important pieces in this kind of a game, but it's worse that we have to watch Jose another game. He obviously isn't recovered from being sick and Q should have pulled him in the first. It looks like our old lousy friend Jose is back in the building! Thanks for one good series.
April 26, 2008
2:33 p.m.
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Detroitrockcity writes:
What excuses today, is Jose still sick? Forskin still has a boo boo. Sakic nonexistent. Great game so far in the motor city.
April 26, 2008
2:50 p.m.
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jlstaud writes:
This just in...... Jose has allowed eight goals in less than three periods. Obviously Detroit is not that good so the only one to blame right now is Coach Q for allowing a sick guy on the ice. Detroitrockcity, you're having a good game, but seriously there is no way Jose is right. You also need to grow up! Just because you hate Forsberg doesn't mean you need to question whether or not he's injured or need to call him stupid names. Be happy that you're having a good game and quit acting like a freakin two year old.
April 26, 2008
2:51 p.m.
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jlstaud writes:
This just in....The so called amazing Red Wings couldn't score on nearly two minutes of 5 on 3.
April 26, 2008
2:58 p.m.
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WitchKing writes:
I feel bad for Theodore's seeing eye dog
April 26, 2008
3:01 p.m.
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WingNut1967 writes:
Obviously Detroit is not that good so the only one to blame right now is Coach Q for allowing a sick guy on the ice..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Thats funny stuff right there....
April 26, 2008
3:04 p.m.
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WingNut1967 writes:
This just in....The so called amazing Red Wings couldn't score on nearly two minutes of 5 on 3.
Looked more to me like they just burnt up the clock durring that time... Only made safe plays, and did nothing stupid... That to me seemed like good hockey...
April 26, 2008
3:22 p.m.
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Detroitrockcity writes:
this just in.....jistaud
The Avs couldnt score on a power play but the amazing red wings did score short handed. 5-1 GO Wings!
April 26, 2008
3:29 p.m.
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WingNut1967 writes:
What a Lovely day it is here in Michigan... The sun is shinning, spring flowers are blooming, birds are singing, and the WINGS are beating the Hell out of the AVS...
How's the weather in Colorado?
April 26, 2008
3:37 p.m.
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Detroitrockcity writes:
Nothing makes a Detroiter more happy than to see the Avs get pummeled by the Red Wings. Get a fork, the Avs are done.
April 26, 2008
3:44 p.m.
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originalsix writes:
This just in: A conversation between Joe Sakic and Henrik Zetterberg,
Joe Sakic: wow I'm dizzy from spinning on all fours. What happened Henrik?
Henrik Zetterberg, Joe, I think your jock is over there in the corner.
April 26, 2008
3:49 p.m.
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originalsix writes:
I bet they have a car out front of their arena painted red and white with Detroit on it and have people pay to swing a sledge hammer at it. How original.
April 26, 2008
3:53 p.m.
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Detroitrockcity writes:
Awesome game. I'll tell you what Joe Sakic better wake up or this series will be over in 4. How about that moron Cody McCormick who picked up the octopus in the begining of the game and taunted us in our house. Way to stir up the hornets nest Cody, dumb move, very dumb.
April 26, 2008
3:59 p.m.
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jlstaud writes:
Seriously. Red Wing fans are idiots. This was game two. The series isn't over You beat a depleted team that played horribly. We'll see ya in Colorado. Oh by the way, nice day here in CO as well.
April 26, 2008
4:01 p.m.
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kathyM writes:
Red Wings rock!
April 26, 2008
4:12 p.m.
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farsidefan writes:
The weather is fine here. No excuses for a poorly played game. The best news: I can wake up tomorrow and I'm not in Detroit. Whew..
April 26, 2008
4:36 p.m.
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GoMaltby writes:
Wow if Budaj isn't starting in game 3, you might as well forfit. Not that the wings can't put 3 to 5 on Budaj, but really you can't start Theodore again.
This just in... Franzan has more goals then the Colorado Avalanche in this series.
I expect the Av's to play twice as good at home, and the Wings to cool down some. Don't worry we'll only take one in Colorado. I'll leave the broom in the corner.
April 26, 2008
4:44 p.m.
zzavilla writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
April 26, 2008
4:57 p.m.
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Quagmate writes:
Hlinka was aweful. He was responsible for two of the goals with his giveaways. Hensik better be called up.
No Forseburg, no Hannan, no Wolski and Theodore looks bad.
In Hockey you can blame injuries. It would be nice just once to have the entire lineup play against Detroit.
April 26, 2008
5:05 p.m.
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w1608 writes:
The annoying thing about the Wings is that they just give enough to beat you. so you sit back and watch a series (Nashville) and predict the next series based on that one. Then they crank it up a notch. There are three issues right now for the Avs - Theodore WAS a hot goalie in round 1 - but not right now; Osgood is currently a hot goalie; the Avs have absolutely no confidence right now and the Wings have some real momentum.
By the way the post by zzavilla is vulgar and inappropriate. I'd expect better language from an Avs fan.
April 26, 2008
5:48 p.m.
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WingNut1967 writes:
Again another Avs fan calls me an Idiot, when I was not rude in anyway, nor was I disrespectful... For starters I never said the series was over, not sure where you got that from. So I am a bit confused on which one of us is the idiot...
Lets be Honest Avs fans, did Peter get you into the playoffs? Was he there other than a few games at the end? And seriously, how much faith can you put into him? That would have to be like us still having faith in Dom(yeah right)... So don't use the whole Peter thing as to why thier not keeping up. There is no I, or He in the word Team. When a team gives up shot totals like 41-20, I would be focused more on why my D isn't working the way it should...
I am sure there will still be some very good Hockey to come out of this series... And I am looking forward to every game...
GO WINGS!!!
April 26, 2008
5:53 p.m.
Suggest removal
originalsix writes:
Farsidefan :The weather is fine here. No excuses for a poorly played game. The best news: I can wake up tomorrow and I'm not in Detroit. Whew..
Yeah, Detroit "city" sucks, but most if not all the people on here don't live in Detroit.
but you will wake up in one of the top ten cities with the worst housing markets....
April 26, 2008
5:58 p.m.
Suggest removal
RedWing52 writes:
The Wings strength during the year was puck possession and their ability to avoid stupid penalties. The Avs will be hard pressed to avoid a sweep.
April 26, 2008
6:04 p.m.
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WingNut1967 writes:
You know I guess that is a good point... I do not live anywhere near Detroit, 3 hours west in fact. And the only time I go to Detroit, is to attend games.
So to those of you who think it's some sort of insult to me when you Diss Detroit as a City, you couldn't be more wrong...
April 26, 2008
6:10 p.m.
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originalsix writes:
RedWing52,
The Avs will bounce back and this will be anything but a sweep. 6 or 7 games.
Although, I would like to know what coach Q's alltime playoff record against Detroit?????
April 26, 2008
6:20 p.m.
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Detroitrockcity writes:
I would expect Colorado to play two tough home games but seriously, what do they have? Smyth has been horrible, Sakic nowhere to be found and Cody McCormick is an embarrassment to the whole state of Colorado. Anyways great win for the Wings, see you Avs fans at the pepsi center on tuesday. Get the brooms ready.
April 26, 2008
6:30 p.m.
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avsrgay writes:
Series 2-0...season 6-0....I sense a sweep is coming. Go Wings
April 26, 2008
7:26 p.m.
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aragornzxl writes:
wow, this is nice. I am so happy to see so many red wings fan here in rocky mountain news. Idiots.
GO AVS!!!!!
April 26, 2008
8:57 p.m.
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stonewall0001 writes:
It's funny how before this series started, the only ones who had ANY hatred on either side of this so called rivalry are those who live in Colorado. You insult, you demean and you pathetically grasp on to hope that you can actually prevail in a series against Detroit.
Truthfully, Hockeytown has forgotten about the Avalanche. It was fun a decade ago...but we won, you lost and we moved on...and unfortunately, your hockey heroes are doing NOTHING to remind us of those days...it's kind of pathetic actually.
It was so appropriate then to see someone from the current era of the Avalanche(McCormick) try to fight one of the few remaining Wings(McCarty) left from the "old days" in a failed attempt to motivate his team by picking a fight and then proceeded to show all of us why THESE Avalanche are so forgettable.
So, it really is as simple as this...You are right...Denver is a awesome city...I love to come out there to go snowboarding...no where I would rather snowboard actually...but if I want to watch a great hockey team in a great hockey town, Denver is not where I would go...then again, why would anyone go to Denver to watch hockey?
At least you still have the Nuggets and their playoff hopes...oh, wait a minute...grab your skiis and your snowboards...Here endeth the lesson.
April 26, 2008
9:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
AvalancheSuck writes:
So far you haters have sucked. There is a reason Detroit finished as the #1 seed and Colorado barely finished 6th: our team is FAR SUPERIOR to yours.
You hating us does not change that.
I'll admit I like you just as much though. The Flabalanche, the team that dirty hits and then cries about the retribution!
As for cities? Not many Wings fans live in Detroit - because it's a crap hole. Just like Dungver.
April 26, 2008
9:19 p.m.
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WingNut1967 writes:
There is also this little tid bit... On the Free press Forums there are over 200 comments from Wings fans, talking about todays game. How many Avs fans comments are on here, on thier own news Forums, where's the Huge mass of Avs fans? I think it is obvious where the true Fans live and what Team they support...
April 26, 2008
9:23 p.m.
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jacka writes:
Avs lines had no fire, they were down at the 1st face off.
April 26, 2008
9:37 p.m.
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StarZone writes:
"Although, I would like to know what coach Q's alltime playoff record against Detroit?????"
I don't know his record, but he's never won a playoff series against the Wings. When he was with the Blues I know they've meet at least once in the playoffs (2002). But in the last ten years, the Wings have never been ousted from the playoffs by the Blues. So if they meet any other times, the Blues definitely did not win the series. He's never had much luck against the Wings, playoffs or regular season.
April 26, 2008
10:05 p.m.
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Dirtchief writes:
WingNut1967
The true fans? You guys cant even sell out a playoff game, oh thats right you're all down at the unemployment office waiting for that check.
April 26, 2008
10:18 p.m.
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Detroitrockcity writes:
Dirt,
We sold the game out today in Detroit. Additionally, there will be a sea of red come tuesday at the Pepsi center as usual. With guys like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Filpulla and Franzen it's like a pro team playing a bunch of high school kids. Sakic and Footer need to retire before they get hurt. I will say that you guys have a chance of winning a game if Floppa makes it into the lineup but dont hang your hat on it. Also, to be fair to the players I dont think its all the players fault, Queneville is making some pretty bad decisions on the bench. There is plenty of blame to go around and the coaches are just as responsible for putting liability players like McCormick on the ice.
April 26, 2008
10:31 p.m.
Suggest removal
stonewall0001 writes:
Ah dirtchief...Nothing like making fun of people who are unemployed in an attempt to forget about how embarrassed you are with your favorite hockey team.
Instead, why don't we discuss the likelihood of a comeback by the Avalanche...wait...yeah, that's ludicrous. I'm sorry...guess you'll have to stick to your empty minded insults...
April 26, 2008
10:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
Dirtchief writes:
You all had nothing bad to say about Forsberg when you were trying to sign him. Why the hatred now?
April 26, 2008
10:47 p.m.
Suggest removal
Dirtchief writes:
Why is McCormick a liability? Because he had the audacity to touch the Golden Boy Lindstrom? Lindstrom had touched the puck making it a legal hit so why is that interference?
April 26, 2008
11:14 p.m.
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Finn writes:
Wow, this is some classy talk, Red Wings fans. I know there are a lot of great hockey fans out there. Too bad none of them have chosen to come here to discuss the game and this series. We're all just fans. If you think being a fan of a team makes you tough, I feel sorry for you.
"It's funny how before this series started, the only ones who had ANY hatred on either side of this so called rivalry are those who live in Colorado. You insult, you demean and you pathetically grasp on to hope that you can actually prevail in a series against Detroit."
Really??? I think it's pretty obvious who has the hatred right now. This is what people filled with hate do - exactly what you're hypocritcally accusing Avs fans of.
"Truthfully, Hockeytown has forgotten about the Avalanche. It was fun a decade ago...but we won, you lost and we moved on...and unfortunately, your hockey heroes are doing NOTHING to remind us of those days...it's kind of pathetic actually."
If Detroit wins this series, it will tie the head to head playoff record at 3. That's some interesting revisionist history, though. We can tell you've forgotten about us. That's why you're here with all this passion now that the Wings have the advantage.
I'd love to talk with some real fans about the series. Feel free to come by. The Wings are playing great and the Avalanche have a bunch of work to do for sure. Obviously, this next game is huge if the Avs want to make this a series. But that's why it's a 7 game affair and not only 2.
GO AVS!!
April 26, 2008
11:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
octopus writes:
Who is "Lindstrom?" Never heard of him.
This series has quickly turned into a joke. Even if you had Floppa, he wouldn't be able to shake Detroit's stifling defense, or keep up with the likes of Dats, Z and Franzen.
It's all over but the crying, Analmunch. The crying will begin, as soon as the first floppy octopus hits the ice in Denver. I predict, within the first five minutes of period one, right after the Wings score their first goal of the day.
April 26, 2008
11:24 p.m.
Suggest removal
octopus writes:
Finn...stop trying to act all mature, and above the fray. You need a good hard "BC Two-Hander" across the ankles, to get in the spirit. :)
When's the last time the Avs beat the Wings in a hockey game that counted for anything? 2001? 2000?
It's been a long damn time. Pardon us for getting our hopes up, and wishing for a series that brought back some golden oldie memories. If we sound mean and spiteful tonight, that's just the disappointment talking. And, the schadenfreude.
And we have beautiful mountains here, too. We call them "landfills," and they're a wonderful source of income for beleaguered Detroit suburbs. They make wonderful ski-hills in the winter, too. So you can take your Rockies, and shove them!
April 27, 2008
12:09 a.m.
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Finn writes:
Probably hard for you to believe, Octopuss, but it's not an act. "When's the last time the Avs beat the Wings in a hockey game that counted for anything?" What does that mean? Are you talking playoffs? Well, Detroit won the last playoff matchup in seven games to narrow the gap in playoff series victories to 3-2 in favor of the Avalanche. Obviously, the Avalanche won 3 games in that series, so there's your answer. Yes, the Wings have won the first two games of this series now. Hardly seems like the dominance that you are trying to project, but I guess if you live through what other men do, maybe that means a lot to you.
April 27, 2008
1:31 a.m.
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xtofer writes:
I like how some sports fans talk like they actually play for the team ("we" beat you...). I love it when they high-five each other after a goal, as if they had anything to do with it.
Ultimately the fans pay millionaire players' salaries and keep the arenas happy with jacked-up concession prices. They are both very glad to have you.
It's bread and circuses time as marginal has-been industrial cities like Detroit decay, ultimately sold to China, while the shrinking middle-class distracts themselves by "winning" against the other teams in sporting events.
Detroit fans, keep fiddling.
April 27, 2008
5:52 a.m.
Suggest removal
redwingx writes:
Hey Where's Bernie?
See what happens when you bash HOCKEYTOWN! I told you that you would not get lucky with another Montreal castoff goaltender. NEVER touch an octopy Mccleod, BAD carma, but you found that out.
So now we go back to Quebec (oops I mean Colorado) to play the Nordiques (oops I mean the Avs). Should be tough games and maybe Theodore and Ozzie can go at it, although Jose looks like more of a lover not a fighter.
Oh and one more thing - don't you guys know Joel Qeunville has been the Redwing's "B" for several years?
April 27, 2008
6:27 a.m.
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LaneMeyer writes:
xtofer, thanks for the primer on pro sports and the social commentary, though it's hard to imagine why you'd lower yourself to post on a sports forum. Why not throw in a little political rhetoric for good measure?
xtofer, c'mon down off your high horse and enjoy a little athletic entertainment. Considering how bleak your outlook is, it would seem as though you could use a distraction from the gloom all around.
April 27, 2008
6:55 a.m.
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WingNut1967 writes:
ISN'T INTERESTING... Once again I get attacked, when once again I was not rude or disrespectful to anyone here... I came here and talked hockey, I didn't smack talk in anyway. In fact I wished both teams luck as they headed into yesterdays game...
And to answer the Question about us liking Forsberg when we tried to sign him... First of all,The Wings did very little to get him, it was nothing more than a passing thought...
Second, obviously none of you were on the Free press Forums when they made that suggestion. There wasn't one person on our forums that wanted him either.
AND WHY DID'T WE WANT HIM??? I think you Avs Fans know the reason why we didn't want him. I think his present playoff status speaks loud and clear as to why we didn't want Peter. Same reason I didn't want them to sign Dom, because he's a has been. Niether Dom or Peter can play with the intensity or passion the once did.
Peter and Dom were GREAT players in thier day, but that day has gone. But thats O.K., keep putting your faith into Peter being your savior, we all need excuss's when we lose. And the lost Forsberg seems to be yours...
HAVE A NICE DAY...
April 27, 2008
7:44 a.m.
Suggest removal
AvalancheSuck writes:
huckFinn, are you for real? You are clinging pretty hard to that "we have beaten you 3 times in the playoffs" to be accusing others of "living through what other men accomplish". Get a clue!
The Wings are and have been a better franchise. Could other cities lay claim to being Hockeytown? You bet, like Montreal for one. But not Denver or Quebec City.
April 27, 2008
7:51 a.m.
Suggest removal
AvalancheSuck writes:
Dirtface, do you understand hockey rules?
If you don't understand why McCorny received a penalty then you need to stop posting. It does not make you a stupid person that you don't get it, but it does show you to be hockey ignorant.
April 27, 2008
7:51 a.m.
Suggest removal
stonewall0001 writes:
Fin...you don't know me at all. First off, the post of mine that you have decided to attack is my first ever on the Rocky Mountain News. I have always checked in, but never bothered to involve myself in the discussion. It was only when Avs fans were not talking about hockey and bashing the city of Detroit that I got involved.
Where were your high and mighty comments when your own kind were bashing things other than the teams involved in this contest. Why not hold yourself to a higher standard at that point? Why wait until I pointed out the painful but obvious facts.
But...seeing that you want to get into the he said, he said game...
"If Detroit wins this series, it will tie the head to head playoff record at 3. That's some interesting revisionist history, though. We can tell you've forgotten about us. That's why you're here with all this passion now that the Wings have the advantage."
Hmmm...revisionist history...3-3 in playoff series...that's a nice history lesson. Thanks for pointing that out...but you forgot about what I was saying before...there is no rivalry anymore. We've always had the advantage...See, we make the playoffs every year...you don't. We can't play you and continue the rivalry if you aren't consistently good. 3-3 would matter if there wasn't a eight year gap since we last played.
This is what I was trying to say from the beginning. You are just another opponent...win or lose...just another team. There is no hatred...we will just beat you and move on.
I don't even need to address the Forsberg thing as Wingnut, as he always does, said it perfectly. Didn't want him, don't care.
You can say whatever you want...it's a free country...but if you are going to play the taking the high road card, you had better check that against EVERYONE...not just the ones that happen to be on the other side of the debate.
April 27, 2008
8:38 a.m.
Suggest removal
farsidefan writes:
Good morning ! yep, the sun is still shining. I'm still living in a great place only 30 minutes from the arena and my seats.
Actually, I love the passion that each side shows for its team. This is why I enjoy being a sports fan. You never see folks have this much passion for a play, movie, etc.
I could do without the name calling and the vileness shown toward each other and the players.
The Av's need to figure out how to slow down the Wings, literally. Our goalie needs to get on top of his game.
These losses have more to do with the netminder than Forsberg's absence.
April 27, 2008
9:20 a.m.
Suggest removal
WingNut1967 writes:
stonewall0001
Thank you for the complement...
April 27, 2008
9:43 a.m.
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WitchKing writes:
Hey, where'd all the front running Nordlianche fans go? We notice Bernie Lintcomb hasn't opened his yapper again.
Probably best eh Bernie? And no doubt the "die hard" Nordilanche fans didn't even watch the game yesterday, they were too busy watching the Broncos draft...
April 27, 2008
9:54 a.m.
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Retread writes:
The Wings are a strong team with awesome depth in their lines, it is no fluke they are #1 in the west. I am and always have been a Avs fan, however, you have to recognize the power in the Wings. When they win every battle for the puck, when they are everywhere on the ice at the same time, somebody on the other team is off their game, or somebody (Quenville) is not using the right strategy, or the lines of the wings are overpowering (not really).
I do believe that Theo should sit out one home game, the Wings have his number, they know his weakness, and will continue to thump on it. They have been skipping pucks, bouncing pucks, and putting men into goal area en force, this seems to work on Theo, Budaj seems to fair better. The Avs need to forecheck better, they need to attack the center of the ice instead of waiting for the wings to set up in our zone, better passing, and they need a healthy Forsberg. The Wings are strong, they can be beat with speed and smart hockey, you cannot allow the other team to outshoot you 20-6 and expect a win...Don't give up on the Avs yet...
April 27, 2008
10:27 a.m.
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PapaWayne writes:
I remember when Patrick Roy, one of hockey's greatest goalies ever (if not THE greatest) was still with Montreal.
The Detroit - Montreal rivalry - - ah, now there's a REAL rivalry, with literally HUNDREDS of games and DOZENS of playoff series under its belt - - was as strong as ever. (Much to the chagrin of all of us here in Detroit, we don't get to see Montreal or Toronto or Boston nearly as often as we'd like...but I digress.) Roy was on the ice, but for some reason the Wings had his number that day - our guys scored six fast goals against ol' Patrick.
Yanked by his coach, Roy thundered down the tunnel and (figuratively speaking) straight into the front office, demanding to be traded. Soon he was dealt to your team, giving your guys their best shot at hockey greatness up to that point, and their first real contention since moving to the beautiful Rockies.
My point, lost in all this exposition, is that perhaps Jose Theodore simply needs to sit for the rest of this series - maybe the Wings just have his number. If the Avalanche are to have any hope of surviving this series, I think your coach needs to give serious consideration to playing Budaj (who has stopped all but ONE of the RedWings' shots).
Regarding the Wings' "rivalry" with the Avs: it's true that Claude Lemieux incited a certain nastiness between our two teams with a pretty dirty hit on our Kris Draper, all those years ago. But this "rivalry" is only less than a decade old. I've been watching hockey in Detroit for about 42 years or so, since the age of five; the true fans of the game here in our town just sort of smile indulgently as the writers try their best to stir us up.
Want a rivalry? See if you're able to watch a game between Toronto and Montreal...now, there's a rivalry.
One last thing - you folks out there in Colorado will probably not get to see me get nasty. This is a GAME, folks...there's no reason to lower ourselves to the level of schoolyard children. I am in total agreement with those cooler heads who post comments that pertain to the actual GAMES and don't try to hurt or insult by cracking wise about unemployed workers or the like.
We're grown-ups...I think we should ACT like it.
April 27, 2008
10:28 a.m.
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Detroitrockcity writes:
retread,
nice post. Good to get some good dialogue on the game. Us Wings fans know you guys are going to bring it on Tuesday, we love a good game. If you guys leave Budaj in net I think it can even things out, especially at home in the Pepsi Center. Forsberg, as much as we hate to see him play, is a good player that is extremely dangerous when given the puck. The one stat I see that is staggering is the shot advantage, game 1 proved that even with less shots the Avs almost tied it up. I would not be surprised to see the series 2-2 coming back to Detroit, it happened to us against Nashville. Im hoping for the broom but Denver is a tough place to play.
April 27, 2008
10:44 a.m.
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nycavsfan writes:
Good morning, farsidefan. I think you're right, the Wings have to be slowed down. But how? A potent offense goes a long way toward a good defense, and right now the Avs' offense looks positively anorexic. I was unable to see yesterday's game but the box score is basically identical to Thursday's game sans the offensive resurgence in the second period--lots more shots from the Wings and no solution to Franzen.
I think the Wings usually outshoot the Avs, having to do with different philosophies--the Wings like to shoot and crash the net for rebounds (if it doesn't go in first a la Franzen) while the Avs seemed more patient in working the puck to find and exploit a weakness. Without passing wizards like Forsberg, though, guys like Sakic aren't able to get the puck with any room to shoot, and so don't, or settle for low-percentage shots with no rebounds. But of course I have to credit the Red Wings D and Osgood as well for keeping the lid on them. Today's Avs need to take more shots. Quenneville should know that.
Retread, I agree, Theodore should not be in there. And if he really does have the flu he should never have started on Thursday. Again, a poor decision by coach, IMO.
Congrats, Wings fans, on your team's dominating performance thus far in the series. I'm still hopeful after Forsberg returns on Tuesday (and he WILL be there) that the Avs can climb back into this and at least make it interesting.
(Btw it's a little sad to be an Avs fan in New York. You're lucky to find a sports bar willing to tune into a non-Rangers/Flyers/Yankees/Mets game, and if you do it's one in the back with no soun. AND most of the remaining games in this series start at 10 p.m. EDT. Arrggghh...)
April 27, 2008
11:04 a.m.
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ki420 writes:
OK! Enough with the back and forth of who is better in the playoffs. Here is the real facts starting with the first year of the Colorado Avalanche
1996-- Avs--Win THE CUP Detroit--lost to Avs in WCF 4-2
1997-- Avs--lost to detroit in WCF 4-2 Detroit wins THE CUP
1998-- Avs--1st rd exit to Edmonton 4-3 Detroit wins THE CUP
1999-- Avs--lost Dallas in WCF 4-3 Detroit- lost to Avs 2nd rd 4-2
2000-- Avs--lost Dallis in WCF 4-3 Detroit- lost to Avs 2nd rd 4-1
2001-- Avs--Win THE CUP Detroit- 1st rd lost to LA 4-2
2002-- Avs--lost to Detroit WCF 4-3 Detroit wins THE CUP
2003-- Avs--1st rd exit Wild 4-3 Detroit- 1st rd exit Ducks 4-0
2004-- Avs--2nd rd exit Sharks 4-2 Detroit-2nd rd exit Flames 4-2
2005-- NO SEASON
2006-- Avs--2nd rd exit Ducks 4-0 Detroit-1st rd exit Oilers 4-2
2007-- Avs--1st time ever miss playoffs by 1 pt. Detroit-lost to Ducks in WCF 4-2
Now what does this tell us? When the avs have been eliminated 5 out of 7 times has been in a game 7 only being swept once. The avs made it to the WCF 6 times in 7 years. Both of the avs first round exits by the avs have been in game 7's with both teams having come back from a 3-1 series deficit to beat Colorado. The Avs have been defeated in the 2nd round only twice as well. Colorado hoisted the cup twice.
Detroit lost to the LA Kings in Round 1--how in the hell does that ever happen? Detroit lost in rd 1 three times and in the 2nd rd 3 times. Detroit was swept in rd 1 in 2003--not one playoff win that year; this has never happened to the Avs! Detroit made it to the WCF 4 times in the 7 years the Avs went 6 times. The avs have won more series against the wings than vice versa. But the ultimate the Wings have hoisted the cup three times.
Not counting this series the Avs have won 17 playoff games against Detroit and the Wings have won 12 against the Avs. So even if Detroit sweeps the Avs will still have a 17-16 playoff record against the Wings. The Avs have won 18 playoff series since 1996 and the Wings have won 19 series and of course the Wings have one additional playoff season than do the Avs since Colorado failed to advance to playoffs in 2007.
So all in all I believe that these are both very good hockey teams who were virtual dynasties during the same period of time, but no doubt that the Wings have navigated the post cap hockey world more deftly than the mighty Avs. Just remember the numbers don't lie and the Avs are the superior playoff team with more WCF appearances and more head to head playoff wins.
GO AVS!!!!
April 27, 2008
11:12 a.m.
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originalsix writes:
Faresidefan,
I am a Redwings fan and agree with your observations. Alot of idiots and name calling on both sides. I expect a different team on Tuesday, from Colorado. I think Detroit needs to get 1 othe 2 games there. This could lead to a 5 game series. I originally predicted 6 or 7 games, although this could still happen. Colorado will not lie down and go quietly.
More good hockey to come.
April 27, 2008
11:47 a.m.
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guylef70 writes:
Good to see some people actually talking hockey.
I agree the Avs gotta pull Theordore. After giving up 9 goals in two games I don't know if he can lock it back down. That other guy seems to be doing alright. Though by the time he comes in the bed's already been crapped upon. Theodore's sickness might be more in his head. Shell-shock.
Also, I agree Forsberg and Sakic are great players. The Avs first line is a classic. But that's not where the damage is being done. The drop off after those guys seems pretty apparent. That's why Franzen's been the hero so far. The Wings just seem deeper and that's where the games have been decided. The Avs second and third lines just haven't been able to match up.
April 27, 2008
12:12 p.m.
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steamboatwill writes:
Part One:
Have to post this in two parts as this paper only allows 3000 characters per post. I can’t write a check with less than 3000 characters. Do you guys have short attention spans out there or what?
Ok kids, settle down and have a seat. I am about to grace you with my wisdom and you need to pay close attention…
First, we are all Americans here (well maybe a few illegals) and there is no need to bash each other’s cities. If it wasn’t for the industrial might of Detroit (G.M. switched from Chevys to Shermans in about 48 hours) there might be a lot more Adolphs in Colorado than just Coors. I was born and raised in Detroit (God’s Greatest City and The Engine of Democracy), but have since moved to Hockeytown North (Traverse City-God’s Second Greatest City and Less Crime). I still love Detroit and am pained by some of the problems it is having. The state in general made the mistake of electing a Socialist Canadian Princess Governor TWO terms in a row. The Princess has driven industry from the state faster than Kris Draper on a short-handed breakaway. She actually kicked off her first term by handing out sunglasses and delivering a speech themed, “The Future’s so Bright, we gotta wear shades!” Mid-term, she dreamed up a “Michigan Needs Cool Cities” initiative while declining an invitation from Honda to come to Japan and discuss the possibility of locating a new plant in Michigan. Meanwhile the nations “First Hip-hop Mayor” presides over sex scandals and corruption that would make Coleman Young proud. On the bright side, G.M. is producing some well engineered, nicely styled products and finally seems to understand that we want to buy GOOD cars.
Second, stop reading Bernie Lincicome…or at least stop taking him seriously. It is fine to be a bit of a “homer” as a sports writer or broadcaster. Listen to the calls of the Roy-Osgood fight. You would swear each goalie beat the other like a redheaded step-child by listening to their home announcer. Mr. Lincicome takes it a bit too far though. If you look back to the 2002 series he was writing the same “Detroit sucks, who would call themselves Hockeytown anyway, all their guys are crybabies and all our guys are gallant knights in Avalanche Jerseys.” It is like he posted the same pieces and just changed a few names. Guess what…he called Mitch Albom (who is actually a talented if somewhat sappy writer, by-the-way) on his radio show after the Avalanche lost and told Mitch that he thought hockey was a lousy game anyway. He tried to get Mitch to admit that he hated hockey too. Huh, a sports writer that doesn’t like Hockey. Of course he won’t write that in his column. The guy is a hack and you should not buy into his vitriol. Besides what IS UP with that hair?
April 27, 2008
12:25 p.m.
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Finn writes:
Stonewall....Welcome to the Rocky Mountain News. We're glad you've come by to talk about the series. You're right, there are plenty of Avs fans making rude and stupid comments as well. However, I made my comments based on so many Red Wings fans jumping on right after the game to twist the knife by making false comments and downplaying anything the Avs have ever done...like you.
You say you're pointing out the "painful and obvious facts," that "we've always had the advatage," and other incorrect statements so I'm calling you out on it. Sorry I hurt your feelings, but it's much more fun to use the facts as weapons, not fabricated memories. As ki420 reinforced, you haven't always had the advantage. The Avs have had the advantage so far. Detroit is looking to even it up. That's the facts. Doesn't matter what you want to believe. I don't care if it is a rivalry - never have - and I never said it was. Why do you think that comment bothers anybody?
Anyway, good luck the rest of the series. I can't say it's been fun so far :) but hopefully some home ice will make the series interesting again.
April 27, 2008
12:31 p.m.
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steamboatwill writes:
Part Two:
Got to post in THREE parts...
Third, all you folks that think sports are nothing but Bread and Circuses should think about doing something more useful than flaming sports fans. Go do a paper drive, pass out some funny light bulbs or dress up in black and protest the war. Sports are beneath you and you have a world to save. Besides, sports are not Bread and Circuses, they are a sad effort to experience vicariously through others that which we cannot hope to do ourselves…or maybe a replacement for the war and bloodlust of the hunt that we so long for. Either way, you can’t eat a puck (though it might take a few teeth out) and a Circus has to have clowns. Hockey has goons, but no clowns. Except maybe Don Cherry…
Fourth, I really admire Peter Forsberg, but when you sign him up you know it is 50-50 that he will make it through the playoffs. He is NOT a wimp for not playing with a pulled groin. You can’t skate with a pulled groin and if you re-injure it (which you will if you come back too soon) it will take that much longer to heal. I am guessing he will play game three either way as there will be nothing left to loose, but he is not a wimp if he doesn’t. It drives me nuts to see preteen brats and banana slug 40-somethings question the courage of guys who go into the corner and take a hit from a moose to make a pass that will probably not result in a goal anyway. YOU (and I) would duck and cover then slink off to change our underwear and I DARE YOU to deny it. If Forsberg has a fault it is that he is too courageous and has taken too many big hits because he is FEARLESS! I had mixed emotions when the Wings were taking a look at him because of his injury history, but I would never question his courage, grit of talent.
April 27, 2008
12:32 p.m.
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steamboatwill writes:
Fifth, throwing the Octopus back in the stands was a bad idea. Anytime you concentrate on the fans, you are not concentrating on the hockey game. A professional athlete needs to ignore the fans, because fans are usually ignorant and often drunk. Except, of course, for that cute kid at game one with the sign that said, “Can I have a puck for my 8th birthday?” She got the puck (during warm-up) and flipped the sign and it said, “Thank You!” Nice!
Sixth, it does say something about Red Wing fans that we are on the forums of other towns newspapers (and in their barns!) when we play them. No, the Wings did not sell out all their home games, but they had sold out every game for the previous six or seven years. Besides a “sell out” is a dubious claim. Teams will regularly fudge the numbers on ticket sales to make them look good. Believe me, the lower numbers at the Joe are not because of any lack of enthusiasm by the fans. Remember too, that we have had a team in Detroit since 1927 (Cougars) and have stuck with them through the good and bad. There was plenty of bad. During the 1970 and early 80s they were the Dead Wings. Then there was the Darkness of Harkness, when they were coached by a guy whose experience was in Lacross. Did they move to some upstart sun-belt town? Nope, they stayed in Detroit, because Detroit is loyal to their teams. ‘Lanch fans can come and talk to me about team loyalty after they have missed the playoffs for ten straight years. I have earned the right to be a Wings fan.
All this said, I am not always so rational. I am not above a totally partisan scream of, “GO WINGS, BEAT THE STINKIN’ ‘LANCH!” May the best team win (and we will) see ‘ya next time and thanks for tuning in!
April 27, 2008
12:41 p.m.
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Finn writes:
AvalancheSuck...I'm guessing the name you chose and content of your messages indicates your age and mental capacity, so it's probably not appropriate for me to be addressing you, however, there's a concept in reading and writing called "context" in which you must first understand the background of a topic before interpreting the meaning. If you had bothered to understand the context of my message, which was to point out how some Wings fans are incorrect by claiming historic dominance over the Avs, you'd realize how stupid you look. I'm not clinging to Avs three commanding victories over Detroit in the playoffs. I'm just educating the very few unknowledgable fans in Hockeytown like yourself and stonewall, who apparently started paying attention to hockey since the lockout ended. If you had any sense of history, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about, but I don't have the time to teach it to you anymore.
You're right, though, McCloed's interference on Lidstrom was definitely a penalty. If you were paying attention, you would have realized it was McCloed, not McCormick, but whatever. Nice observation.
April 27, 2008
12:44 p.m.
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stonewall0001 writes:
Ki420...Glad you took the time to go online and break down the playoff records of both teams for the last 10 seasons. Thank you for spelling it out so plainly...
1996-2007 Detroit 3 Stanley Cups
1996-2007 Colorado 2 Stanley Cups
Thank you, drive through please. And as a season ticket holder, can you do me a favor...if Colorado can manage to figure out how to play with Detroit in either of your two games at home and squeek out a win, can you ask your hockey heroes to at least make game five interesting before we finish you off...yesterday's game was kind of boring.
April 27, 2008
12:48 p.m.
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Finn writes:
I agree with those of you bashing Bernie. Here in Denver, in my opinion, we have the worst columninsts. Over at the other paper we have Mark Kiszla and Woody Paige. All three of these guys are terrible!! But columnists aren't really fans of home teams. People act like their writings are a fans' editorials. If fact, these guys bash the Denver teams just as much as any opponent. They tell it like they see it, one way or the other. None of them claim to be Denver fans (except maybe Woody, but I can't figure him out either!)
April 27, 2008
1 p.m.
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WingNut1967 writes:
ki420 & Finn...
It's funny how you have left it as, just while the Avs Franchise has been in Colorado. See the Avs have a history that goes beyond Colorado... Your team used to be called the Quebec Nordiques that began in 1972, so I believe you left a few things out...
We have 10 cups in total... Avs/Nordiques franchise has 2 total.
Detroit has been in 17 consecutive playoffs(and still counting)... The Avs/Nordiques have a best of 9.
And if you want to bring it back to when you were just the Avs 1996-2008... We have 3 cups, and the Av's have 2. In reality isn't that what matters when it comes down to what you call playoff success???
So in fact, as a Franchise, it looks to me like the Red Wings have had far better playoff success in thier Franchise history...
April 27, 2008
1:01 p.m.
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Finn writes:
Great posts steamboatwill!! I love reading the opinions of knowledgable fans. You have a great team out in Detroit and you should definitely be proud...of the Wings and the city. I agree with pretty much everything you said. Thanks for chiming in. Hopefully game 3 will be a good one because there is nothing better than the NHL playoffs!!
April 27, 2008
1:04 p.m.
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farsidefan writes:
Steamboat, great post. yea, if you stick through those dark times, like some of us old time bronco fans, you can truly call yourself a fan.
Living here all my life, my hockey watching was DU or one of the 8 pro teams to come through our town. All minor leaguers except for the Rockies and now the Avs.
As a kid the best birthday present I ever received was a table top hockey set. The teams ? Canadians and Maple Leafs. My friend and I literally wore it out. What fun.
Now to the Avs Redwings: So long as we are trying to win a Cup with minor leaguers filling spots on our roster it will be very difficult. The Mc boys ( McCloud and McCormick) might be grinders but they need experience. Hlinka was terrible last night and we missed the smarts of Hannan on defense.
I'll take Forsberg on my team any time he wants to play.
Of course, I'd Lidstrom too :)
April 27, 2008
1:08 p.m.
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steamboatwill writes:
To Avs fans. (See, I'm being respectful and not saying "'Lanch")
Thanks for dropping the, "Detroit buys its teams" line. I appreciate that.
April 27, 2008
1:10 p.m.
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Finn writes:
Wingnut...Yep, you're right. You can't argue with those 3 cups. As far as the history goes, you've got us there too. But there is nothing we can do about that. Personally, I didn't follow or root for the Nordiques so I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, Detroit has a great hockey history and record. You should be proud. As I've tried to point out several times now, my comments, and I think those of ki420, were based solely on the minority of fans claiming dominance over the Avs since the 1995 season, which I think you would agree is incorrect. Your debate is probably better left for one of the other original 6 cities, because they are the only ones that can match the Red Wings' history. Good luck in game 3 (well, not really). :)
April 27, 2008
1:16 p.m.
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steamboatwill writes:
Finn and Far,
Thanks. I had the same table top game Far. Habs-Leafs with the old metal players. Got a plastic one later that had stickers so you could choose you teams (went with Bruins-Wings) and have one of the fancy new stand up ones in the basement now (just red and blue...probably made in China). I grew up playing rec-leagues in Detroit and my son (7) and daughter (5) are starting in Mites this fall. Here's to the Grand Old Game!
April 27, 2008
2:14 p.m.
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PapaWayne writes:
Finn
If you think your sports writers are bad, I think we have one here who can beat yours for BAAAAD. Go to www.freep.com and read a guy named Drew Sharp.
Terrible...just terrible.
Reminds me of the old Saturday Night Live skit, "Bad Ballet",with Dan Ackroyd as Leonard Pinth-Garnel.
April 27, 2008
3:20 p.m.
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originalsix writes:
It's nice to read interesting and non-threatening comments from both sides. All things aside, should be a good game three on Tuesday night.
April 27, 2008
3:38 p.m.
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eam0415 writes:
The Avs played like crap yesterday. 5-1, seriously. The best is when McCarty gave your boy a good ol' fashion Detroit beat down. Expect to see more of those. Oh yeah, Wings will most likely win the series, so why even bother showing up.
April 27, 2008
4:35 p.m.
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GJrodburner writes:
It will be a very cold day before I ever respect most of the Detroit morons that have nothing but hate to serve up on this site. And this goes double for the Avalanche fans that have returned the favor. I want my team, the Avalanche to win very much, but not at the expense of degrading the 'wings or their fans. Great team, great city, and beyond the obvious fools who have posted their hate, it has been a fun read on this post.
For those of you that have figured out that getting a response for posting something of merit or to produce an insight into the game, or to at least poke fun at your own in-state political situation, thank you. It just goes to show, no matter where we live, same 'ol same 'ol, just a different day or location!
I would like to see what transpires in Game three at the Pepsi, should some of the injured Aves get to play. I do think that Budaj should be in net, and should get the rest of the series. This doesn't take away from what Jose has done, sometimes goalies hit a deadspot in their game, and against some teams, and that's all there is to it; play the other goalie. Where I think the Aves are having a really tough time is not have Hannan and Forsberg out there. Given the range of a what a proven pro like Forsberg can do, I'd take 1/2 of that against the 'wings in game three. This next game is an "all-hands-on-deck" game. It really does prove the adage that you win with your race-horses and not with you plow-horses. That's not an excuse, it is a fact. If Detroit wins this series, so be it. But they still have to win two in Denver, and should we get some of our injured back, I think the outcome will be totally different.
April 27, 2008
4:45 p.m.
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Finn writes:
If McCarty's fight is what folks in Detroit see as a good ol' fashion Detroit beat down, then I like our chances....the Avs should win according to that logic. Thanks earn0415, I feel better now! By the way, why did you chose your hourly wage as your alias? I thought minimum wage was more than that anyway??
April 27, 2008
5:05 p.m.
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farsidefan writes:
Steamboat,
If I come up the mountain your way this summer, how about a beer ? I tend to think that not all rivals fans are turds, just passionate. How tough is it to be a Wings fan in Steamboat ? I bet you take a lot of crap huh ?
April 27, 2008
5:40 p.m.
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Detroitrockcity writes:
GJ,
Wings fan here, I appreciate your post. Should be a good game tuesday and if Forsberg plays I think it will be a close game whoever wins. I have been to many games at the pepsi center and for the most part avs fans have been pretty respectful of me in my Wings jersey. It says a lot when the fans of your city can act civil when an opposing team's fans go to a game. I cant say that holds true in other cities. Anyhow, good luck to your team Tuesday.
April 27, 2008
5:58 p.m.
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legs writes:
farsidefan: Smoking something you shouldn't? "Steamboat" lives in Traverse City (known here as "Hockeytown North") where no crap is given, since Wing fans dominate the area. However, if you make your way to TC, he's the type of guy that'll offer you a beer and good sport conversation...
I hope Forsberg IS in next time to rev up the series a notch. And, honestly, if not all the best players are in, the winner can't say they've beaten the best that the other team has on their roster. It's a GOOD game when the top guys are all healthy and go head-to head with a close score right down to the wire - or into OT.
April 27, 2008
6:09 p.m.
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steamboatwill writes:
Farsidefan,
My name confuses you (but the beer would be great). I don't live in Steamboat, I work on one. I'm a marine engineer on an old Great Lakes Steamship (think Edmund Fitzgerald). Thanks for the congenial discourse and Legs is right, we have a passible microbrewery and its on me! I am like this tone much better than the early posts. Nice job gettin the haters out folks!
April 27, 2008
6:11 p.m.
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nycavsfan writes:
Papa and Steamboat, thanks for keeping all this in its proper historical perspective. Motown is one of the original six and we can't compete with that kind of history. There are rivalries in this and other professional sports that have deep roots, and Avs/Wings can't be one of them, if geography and longevity are taken to be the critical benchmarks.
Avs/Wings was/is something else, I'd say a freak event, like lightning striking your home. The people of Colorado were given this gift in 1995 and I doubt most of us--save the few hard-core hockey fans--fully appreciated having an NHL team (the old one, the Rockies, moved to NJ when I was a kid), not to mention one that was loaded to the gills with talent. (Thank you, Eric Lindros.) It was almost grotesquely unfair for the Avs to be instantly competing for the Stanley Cup when we're all just a bunch of long-suffering Broncos fans!
When I think of "rivalry" as a native Coloradoan I have to put the Broncos/Raiders as #1, Avs/Wings #2.
Btw, I remember fondly Mitch Albom's commentary on John Elway, right before the Superbowl with Green Bay. (OK, it was a sappy piece, I'm a sucker for those.)
April 27, 2008
6:29 p.m.
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Milarso writes:
I don't care if we are up 2-0. When the Wings go into the Pepsi Center, things are going to get wild. CO hasn't had a team for an incredibly long time, but you have to respect the noise in that place. It's going to be tough to win Game 3.
Don't get me wrong, I still think Detroit will win this thing, but the Wings are going to have to come out with a lot more intensity in an opponent's arena if they are going to go to 3-0.
I'm hoping the Avs can figure out their goalie situation, and really have Game 3 be a knock-down, drag-out kind of game.
We shall see.
April 27, 2008
8:10 p.m.
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steamboatwill writes:
nycavsfan,
Mitch is a really good writer. His radio program is goofy, but he can write. Joe Falls was the best Detroit sportswriter I can recall, but he is gone. Mike Stone is good. PapaWayne is right about Drew Sharp. Incoherant babble. Mitch tends to swerve over into a lot of social commentary, which is Okay I suppose. Sports does occasionally have a big social impact, Jackie Robinson, Pat Tillman, Todd Bertuzzi, Theo Fluery, but mostly its just sports. I rember Mitch writing a piece about the tomahawk chop of the Braves fans. He comapred it to having a Oklahoma Christians team with big foam crosses or the New Youk Jews with the fans wearing big floppy black hats and fake beards. I thought, "I'm Okay with that, now can we watch the game and quit with the guilt trip?"
April 27, 2008
9:20 p.m.
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heykyleinsf writes:
You guys are the worst "fans".
Theodore had a great year.
If you just checked in against
the wild, you missed some 60
great games with Jose minding
the net.
It's whiney and weak to dis
him now. I'd rather you were
fans of some other team.
TAKE YOUR MIDOL YOU SISSIES!!!
Suck it up it's only a couple
of games, did you really think
we were going to sweep them
or something? We were lucky to
make the playoffs, and I'm totally
happy with Theodore and the defense
in general improved this year.
Foppa and Footey back, we work on
our power play and we will be
a force next year.
April 27, 2008
9:28 p.m.
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nycavsfan writes:
Milarso, thanks for your post, I think we'd all definitely like to see a close game for a change. Personally I would rather not waste valuable sleep time in some noisy dive and then risk getting mugged on my way back home at 1 a.m. just to see the Avs get routed again.
Obviously your side is already up for it, so I'm just hoping my side will rise to the occasion. I'm optimistic.
Steamboat, I have to admit I haven't read too many of the other Detroit sports writers, but I will look a few of them up on the web. I spend most of my time reading the Wall Street Journal, which doesn't have much of a sports section (i.e. none).
April 27, 2008
10:04 p.m.
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farsidefan writes:
Steamboat, sorry for the assumption. Stay safe out there.
If you ever come out this way beer is on me..
Nycavsfan : Do you know where the Nordiques were before they went to Quebec ? They were in San Fransico and played in the WHA. So should Quebec be grateful since they got a team the same way we did ? We might have been handed a good team, but Patrick made it what it was. I reacted to the news of Patrick by telling my wife we were in for a terrific season. Little did I know :)
I have ready a few of Mitch's books. They certainly make you look at life a little differently.
Now to open up another can of worms. Am I being overly sensitive or is Emrich (sp) a Detroit homer of an announcer ? It seemed like " Lidstrom makes a great hit !" " Foote made contact " sort of stuff.
April 28, 2008
8:34 a.m.
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kathyM writes:
Steamboat, you rock! Hello from one Wings fan to another. My grandfather captained big boats like yours, so you get an extra hazzah from this former Michigan resident (Holland and A2)!
April 28, 2008
9:04 a.m.
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steamboatwill writes:
KathyM: Thanks! There are a lot of families around the Great Lakes region that have "sailor blood" in them.
Farsidefan: No apoligies necessary. I could live in Steamboat...even if I had to carry the Red WIng torch alone! Would love to get out there and get some Rocky Mountain snow under my board...and drink that beer!
As to Doc Emrick, he is my favorite non-Red Wing announcer, so maybe he leans a little toward the Wings. I have not noticed it though. I like him because he can turn a phrase and makes good segues. He almost sings the play-by-play, which some people might not like. Anybody but Gary Thorn (in my side) and Bill Clement. Also, Pierre McGuire has got to go. I saw him first in the Olympics interviewing the USA woman's team and he was asking the stupidest questions in interviews.
Mickey Redmond does a great job with color commentary for the Wings. He is a homer, but can recognize a bad call even if it goes the wrong way. Plus, he loves a good scrap and will groan when a cheesy obstruction is called (again, even in the Wings favor).
April 28, 2008
9:30 a.m.
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nycavsfan writes:
Farside - You got me on Nordiques history. I had no idea the team originated in San Francisco! And from your earlier post about your table-top hockey game birthday present, you were obviously one of the die-hard hockey fans I was referring to who understood perfectly well what caliber of team was coming to Colorado. I admit I was not much of a hockey fan pre-Avs. (How 'bout that 1980 USA Olympic team?) But I've come to really appreciate the game more and more since, especially as I've lost almost all respect for and interest in professional basketball.
April 28, 2008
9:32 a.m.
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detroitmetal writes:
can't stand Emrick...
he finesses the puck in the corner.
now he finesses the puck in front of the net.
now he finesses the puck at the blue line.
now he finesses the puck in front of the bench.
how about "stick handles" in place of finesse.
hope Forsberg plays. win or lose, It will be a better game with him in. and I would prefer to beat the Avs when they have their best in. - Wings in 6
April 28, 2008
1:17 p.m.
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legs writes:
I'm still deciding whether Emerick is any good: NBC's bid-win to be one of the stations to cover the playoffs has me pretty ticked off. Their audio is HORRIBLE! They're picking up more background distortions than ever. I can't hear the commentary for most of the game. And I recently talked to a sound engineer - with today's audio equipment, there's no excuse for bad audio. Maybe NBC should think about long-term survival (not short-term profits for their overpaid top execs)by actually investing in new equipment. After noticing the smaller, almost invisible head sets on the announcers of other stations, the fat headphones and even fatter old-style mics that NBC is using should be scrapped. Didn't Howard Cosell use this gear to announce Ali's fights and narrate Wide World of Sports in the early '70s? Bottom line: I'd like to hear the play-by-plays more clearly from NBC.
Anyone from NBC read more than scripted reports? (I'm not holding my breath on this one). If so TELL SOMEONE TO FIX THE AUDIO!!
April 28, 2008
2:59 p.m.
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Dirtchief writes:
OK everybody cooler heads have prevailed. I apologize for my earlier comments, they were crass and inappropriate. I spoke without thinking and was caught up in the heat of the moment. As far as our local newspaper goes I agree with the other postings that our guys our terrible. That goes for both papers. They are the first to jump on the bandwagon when local teams are doing good and the first to throw them under the bus when they start to slide. As far as NBC's announcers go I don't mind Emrick and McGuire but Mike Milbury is just embarrassing himself. I caught him on TSN when the Forsberg deal went down and he was saying that Forsberg was washed up and that nobody should have signed him and now he is saying that they cant win without him?
April 28, 2008
3:16 p.m.
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Dirtchief writes:
Also I have nothing against the city of Detroit other than the fact that I am jealous that you guy's have White Castle and we don't.
April 28, 2008
6:05 p.m.
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AvalancheSuck writes:
Ki420, outstanding research – thanks for putting the time in to compile it. But I must take issue with your analysis as it seemed to me you focused not on the Stanley Cup but rather you looked for things you could spin to your favor. I have added some notes to your excellent research and my analysis follows.
1996—Avs/Nordiques miss the playoffs Detroit - lost to NJ Devils in the SC Finals
1996-- Avs--Win THE CUP Detroit--lost to Avs in WCF 4-2 - Wings lost to SC Champ
1997-- Avs--lost to detroit in WCF 4-2 Detroit wins THE CUP - AVS lost to SC Champ
1998-- Avs--1st rd exit to Edmonton 4-3 Detroit wins THE CUP
1999-- Avs--lost Dallas in WCF 4-3 Detroit- lost to Avs 2nd rd 4-2
2000-- Avs--lost Dallis in WCF 4-3 Detroit- lost to Avs 2nd rd 4-1
2001-- Avs--Win THE CUP Detroit- 1st rd lost to LA 4-2
2002-- Avs--lost to Detroit WCF 4-3 Detroit wins THE CUP - AVS lost to SC Champ
2003-- Avs--1st rd exit Wild 4-3 Detroit- 1st rd exit Ducks 4-0 - Wings lost to WC Champ
2004-- Avs--2nd rd exit Sharks 4-2 Detroit-2nd rd exit Flames 4-2 - Wings lost to WC Champ
2005-- NO SEASON
2006-- Avs--2nd rd exit Ducks 4-0 Detroit-1st rd exit Oilers 4-2 Wings lost to SC Champ
2007-- Avs--miss playoffs Detroit-lost to Ducks in WCF 4-2 Wings lost to SC Champ
Now what does this tell us?
The Cup almost always goes through Detroit.
6 of 8 times it took the Stanley Cup champs to defeat the Wings and the 7th of 8 times it was by the Stanley Cup runner up. The Wings made it the Stanley Cup finals 4 times in 7 years. They won the cup 3 times in 7 years. The Wings made it to the Western Conf Finals 5 times in 8 years. The wings won the Cup 2 years in a row!
I agree that this clearly shows both teams were something else. It also makes it easy to recognize why a rivalry developed – the Lemieux dirty hit was a big part of it too. That and his lack of remorse.
With the ultimate goal being to win the Cup, Detroit has won it more and been closer more. Almost always, only those who have a chance to win the Cup have a chance to beat the Wings. But, the Wings got smacked down by the Avs 3 times in 5 years.
I agree the Wings navigated the salary cap more deftly – that is probably a big reason for the difference now. But you guys should love your Avs because they gave you good reason to. You were very fortunate to have them move to Denver when they did.
Just remember the numbers don't lie and the Wings are the superior playoff team with more Stanley Cup appearances, having played against stronger opponents, and more Stanley Cup Championships.