Springs woman eyed in Texas raid

33-year-old has history of false reports by phone

Sara Burnett and Lynn Bartels

Friday, April 18, 2008

Rozita Swinton

She called herself "Laura," and with few exceptions, she was convincing.

In nearly 40 hours of phone conversations with a former member of a polygamous sect who now helps girls and women leave the culture, "Laura" got important details right, said Flora Jessop, executive director of the Phoenix-based Child Protection Project.

She claimed she was the twin sister of "Sarah," whose phone call to Texas authorities led to the raid earlier this month of a Fundamentalist Church of Jeses Christ of Latter Day Saints compound in Eldorado, Texas, and the removal of 416 children on suspicion of abuse.

She knew specific addresses of the area along the Arizona/Utah border where she said she was being held. She dropped names of members of the FLDS church.

Now police are investigating whether that phone call - and the calls to Jessop - were actually made by a 33-year-old Colorado Springs woman with a history of making false police reports by phone.

Rangers take statement

Texas Rangers were in Colorado Springs Wednesday night, when local police arrested Rozita Swinton at her home for filing a fake report in February.

In that incident, police say, Swinton called 911 and said her name was "Jennifer" and that she was injured and in a basement.

The Texas Department of Public Safety confirmed late Friday that two Texas Rangers were with Colorado officials when they searched Swinton's home. The Rangers took a statement from Swinton before returning to Texas without charging her.

During the search, officers found several items suggesting a possible connection between Swinton and calls regarding compounds owned by the FLDS church in Colorado City, Ariz., and Eldorado, Texas, the Texas agency said in a release.

The Texas agency said Swinton became a "person of interest" several days after the raid.

"The information, evidence and a statement obtained from Swinton by the Texas Rangers while they were in Colorado will be forwarded to state and federal prosecutors for their review and determination as to whether Swinton will be charged with a criminal offense," the statement said.

Swinton was released from jail at 2:30 a.m. Thursday and was not home when reporters visited her Colorado Springs apartment Friday.

Court documents show Swinton got two restraining orders against her father in 2007.

But the Tennessee native has a record of false reporting in Douglas and El Paso counties.

Five hours on phone

The Castle Rock case in Douglas County began June 21, 2005, when an adoption agency told police a woman identifying herself as "Jessica" contacted them. The woman said she recently gave birth and wanted to put the baby up for adoption.

Jessica was to come by the agency, but instead left a note there saying she had changed her mind, was going to leave the baby at a fire station and then hurt herself, said Sgt. Scott Claton.

The agency provided police the caller's number. Police tracked her down and arrested Swinton after a lengthy phone conversation.

"She was on the phone with our officer for about five hours that day. We're trying to convince her to come talk to us so we can make sure the baby's OK," Claton said. "It's basically a five-hour run around."

In June 2007, Swinton pleaded guilty to false reporting of a fake crime, a misdemeanor, for the Castle Rock case.

She was ordered to pay $784 in fines and costs, was given a one-year deferred sentence and was ordered to continue taking her medication, though the court order did not list the drug.

In the February call to Colorado Springs police, Swinton gave a partial address and used a phone that could not be traced, according to a police report.

'She was good'

Jessop said Swinton first called her on March 30. Jessop tape recorded their conversations, which she turned over to law enforcement.

"She was good," said Jessop. "Apparently she was doing her research."

But some things she said were suspicious, such as when "Laura" called her parents "Mom" and "Dad," Jessop said. The FLDS use "Mother" and "Father."

Denver lawyer Scott Robinson said that even if it was Swinton's phone call that led to the raid, the search would be on solid legal ground as long as police acted in good faith - or as long as they believed the call was real.

Jessop, meanwhile, declined to comment on whether she believes it was Swinton who called Texas authorities.

burnetts@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5343 Rocky reporter Katie Kerwin McCrimmon and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

• April 18, 2008

  8:29 a.m.

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  davies writes:

  Oh my. What if the call that led to the search and seizure was a hoax by this crazy lady? What a mess: no satisfactory resolution to the whole matter, and lawyer upon lawyer getting rich. Not good at all.

• April 18, 2008

  8:34 a.m.

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  MsValeriah writes:

  Davies,
  It's my understanding that the attorneys representing the children from the compound are working on a pro bono basis, that is, free of charge.

  I get tired of all the put-downs directed at lawyers. Not all of them are money-grubbing or dishonest. A great many of them work hard to be an active force for good in the world.

  BTW, I work for attorneys, and every single one of them in this office are honest, honorable and caring.

  Kindly don't generalize, people!

• April 18, 2008

  8:42 a.m.

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  LOUIE writes:

  I can hardly handle one wife, much less two or three. What's thier secret?

• April 18, 2008

  9:07 a.m.

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  davies writes:

  MsValeriah: I take your point, but please: the fact that attorneys are representing certain parties pro bono does not mean that they don't smell money. They just know their clients don't have any. You imply they are all working solely to restore the clients to their life on Polygamy Ranch. We shall see. I for one anticipate not a few lawsuits requesting significant monetary damages.

  BTW, my little brother just became an attorney, and for now he still has altruistic ambitions, and I'm proud of him. But that has nothing to do with the fact that the mess down in Texas isn't going to be a feeding frenzy for lawyers and lawsuits. Feel free to tell me "I told you so" if and when hell does freeze over.

• April 18, 2008

  9:36 a.m.

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  somebunnyluvsme writes:

  All the joking aside here, the fact that this whole debacle got started due to a false report to agencies charged with the welfare, and protection of victims, may well hamper the successful prosecution of what on it's face, looks like a nubile bride breeding program. I have nothing against the practice of polygamy, as long as it is entered into by well informed mature adults, that have a common goal of caring for their children, and maintaining a well managed household. These misguided folks though are keeping these young girls in a virtual prison, brain washing them with a constant litany of religious dogma, and then raping them upon the advent of their physical maturity, IE: their 1st. menstruation. I hope that this can still be prosecuted successfully, and that those who have taken advantage of these poor little girls, are brought to some form of justice. Freedom of religious expression, is one of the founding blocks of our nation. At what point does the responsible expression of the faith of individual groups, trump the welfare of children too young, and too imprisoned to decide weather or not they wish to participate in that expression?

• April 18, 2008

  9:47 a.m.

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  Art writes:

  How do any of us know that "misguided folks though are keeping these young girls in a virtual prison, brain washing them with a constant litany of religious dogma, and then raping them upon the advent of their physical maturity" just from the fact that there was a phone call? We must keep in mind that there are laws that apply to the law enforcement community as well. Just because they were accused of such things does not make them so. Unless and until there is proof of these accusations based on solid, legally obtained evidence, we should not assume that they are all guilty. It seems that these days any accusation is treated as if there is no question that it is true. One thing that has been written lately is the accusation that there are girls under 18 who are pregnant and who have given birth. You can go into any high school in the country and find this to be true, but this does not mean that they are all raped by older men. It sounds to me like the accusations I have read are no different that what goes on in all communities. I have read nothing containg factual information that makes this situation different from anywhere else. If there is information that can be legally obtained which indicates that there is rape and forced marriages then that should be pursued with all due haste.

• April 18, 2008

  9:59 a.m.

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  somebunnyluvsme writes:

  You are absolutely correct Art, and that is what I meant by successful prosecution. The Texas authorities are, have been busy going about collecting evidence, under what I can only assume to be the fruit of the tree doctrine. This tree may well be poisoned due to the dubious nature of the original reason for the contact. the fact, or fiction in regard to the taking advantage of young and uninformed girls, is in part derived from the here to fore successful prosecution of Mr. Warren Jeff's, and the court proving within all reasonable limits of law, that these practices are in fact the rule, rather then the exception within the strict confines of this sect. I am a staunch believer that law enforcement has to be by the numbers, and that we all suffer when anyone's constitutional rights are violated.

• April 18, 2008

  10:01 a.m.

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  davies writes:

  Somebunny: Yup, if the initial report was false, then there goes probable cause for the search, admissibility of evidence is a huge problem, and yes, maybe the child bride breeders/rapers are back in business, and claiming moral victory to boot. I hope at least some of the women have their doubts and refuse to take their kids and go back with them...

• April 18, 2008

  10:05 a.m.

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  me2 writes:

  Use DNA to find out who fathered the children to the youngest girls. Get these bas*ards once and for all. This is sexual slavery with brain washed victims.

• April 18, 2008

  10:09 a.m.

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  rmnreader writes:

  Art - Hmmm you're comparing high school girls being pregnant likely by high school boys that they have willingly had sex with to these pregnant teens in these polygamist camps? I don't see the similarities?! Have you not read the stories about the women who have escaped from polygamist camps? They are brainwashed to believe that young women should not cut thier hair, expose any skin, wear the color red, ever be alone with a man who is not the husband, marry old men & be one of many wives who are just there to breed children. They are told the outside world is evil & will do much more harm to them should they leave. I agree we need proof to convict but these people are so brainwashed that they are not being truthful with the law enforcement officials about whose children are whose & what wives "belong" to which men. There was a room with beds on the 2nd floor of the CHURCH - does that not seem so wrong! Hopefully the judge approves the request for DNA testing so some charges can start coming to these dirty old men.

• April 18, 2008

  10:12 a.m.

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  esarem writes:

  Re the commentary about "good" lawyers; If there actually are some good lawyers maybe they ought to do something about the huge number of scum giving their profession a bad name. The vermin are easy to find. They have the biggest ads in the yellow pages.

• April 18, 2008

  10:15 a.m.

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  rmnreader writes:

  Art - Please view this link - it makes me sick to think that in our day women & children are still treated this way - I agree we need proof but gosh I hope they find it...

  http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/04/18/ng.polygamy.crime.cnn

• April 18, 2008

  11:06 a.m.

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  Maderas writes:

  Let us look at this just a little differently. If this were an affluent gated community that has restricted access where not just anyone can get in and the same type of phone call was made to imply that something bad was going on behind those gates. Would it be acceptible to everyone if the FBI and police came in and took all the kids from that community away in the same manner? What if anything makes it okay in this case? I am not Mormon or FLDS but I still wonder.

• April 18, 2008

  11:10 a.m.

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  Maderas writes:

  Just another thought. Would any evidence found, be admisable in court if found under false pretenses?

• April 18, 2008

  11:14 a.m.

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  rmnreader writes:

  Maderas - What makes it different is their blatant disregard and sneaky skirting of the polygamy laws as well as the testimony of women who have left and told us what happens inside those walls and how closely what they tell us resembles psycholigical abuse, molestation & sexual assault. If someone in your gated community was believed to be doing such things I'd be all for them going in and making the children safe while they are investigated.

• April 18, 2008

  11:21 a.m.

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  AC writes:

  Bigamy is having one wife too many. So is monogamy.

• April 18, 2008

  11:24 a.m.

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  Maderas writes:

  Does that mean by your way of thinking if a sex preditor lived in your neighborhood they can do the same thing with all the children in that neighborhood gated or not?

• April 18, 2008

  11:27 a.m.

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  somebunnyluvsme writes:

  Well Maderas, I believe that that is the gist of this discussion. In matters of child welfare, most states allow greater latitude in regards to the investigating agents opinion of the situation upon their initial contact. In fact, this is a gated well to do community. These people are not without considerable economic resources, so your question is somewhat redundant as germane to the conversation. Children are perceived by the state to be defenceless, and therefore given special consideration. In light of some of the recent children that have died at the hands of abusive adults in the past year, Child welfare agencies are on a heightened state of alert. This does not make them correct under all circumstances, but if you have read the recent comments by the Governor of the state of Texas, that they do indeed have the necessary resources to prosecute this matter, I wold take pause, in that this man is not going to make such a statement without the advisement of legal council. One also has to wonder, how the reporting party came to have the knowledge of the name of the supposed perpetrator of the initial criminal behavior. Was she in fact in contact with the parties in question? If so, was she just trying her best to report the knowledge she possessed of a crime anonymously? If so we are looking a quite a different ball game here.

• April 18, 2008

  11:37 a.m.

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  Maderas writes:

  Somebunnylovesme Thank you for a wellthought out answer to my question. But is any evidence they find due to a false report ( any case not just this one) allowed in court?

• April 18, 2008

  11:39 a.m.

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  rmnreader writes:

  Maderas - If it were as simple as your statement obviously not - If there were accusations of the sexual predator harming children and the parents letting it happen - absolutley. Your question is very non specific therefore there is not one correct or straightforward answer. Now in my personal opinion everyone should be aware of sexual predators living in there neighborhoods - especially if they have children and these people should educate the children on these terrible people as studies have proven that a sexual deviant CANNOT be rehabilitated. I know where the ones are in my neighnborhood. Do you?

  somebunnylowesme - Well said.

• April 18, 2008

  11:52 a.m.

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  Maderas writes:

  Please remember they are two different situations one is a known and convicted preditor and the other the accusation that a preditor exists. I'm asking about the latter.

• April 18, 2008

  12:18 p.m.

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  somebunnyluvsme writes:

  Madderas, I believe I understand, and I think I see where you are going here, so I will take a feeble shot at your concern. The exculpatory evidence that exist in regard to this group, lends some degree of credence to the concerns of the state of Texas, in regard to this particular sect. The recent conviction of their leader in Utah, has added fuel to a smoldering fire. As citizens of the united states, we are all protected from the threat of unreasonable search and seizure of our papers, and property. If we as individuals, or groups though our behavior, or patterns of behaviour, exhibit ourselves to be acting unlawfully, we may inadvertently open the door to our investigation. Remember that a crime was reported, and those charged with upholding the law, and safeguarding the community as a whole from harm, have an obligation to investigate. These are tricky, and volatile areas for our law enforcement community to negotiate, but negotiate they must, and will. Almost all criminal investigations are brought about based on someones suspicions, or responsiveness to something they have witnessed. The successfully prosecuted investigations, are those that are based on provable fact. some however are prosecuted on weak, and questionable grounds, and there in lies the devil in the details; and I believe the basis of your question. I sincerely hope that any innuendo, gossip, or just plane lies, are weeded out of this situation, and that all agencies uphold the constitutional rights of these our fellow citizens.

• April 18, 2008

  12:18 p.m.

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  rmnreader writes:

  Again your question is so broad that there is not a straightforward answer. To give you a few scenarios - if a suspected predator lived in a gated community and a child had accused them of an assault - whether suspected or actual predator if there is an accusation they should be investigated. If a suspected (not convicted) predator lives in the neighborhood & there has been no accusations then they should be left to their lives - until they do something. Which they will at some point if they are truly a sexual predator.

• April 18, 2008

  1:03 p.m.

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  GWM writes:

  lcdrjjxant, JJ Tenant, thinks he was a Lt Cmdr in the Navy and went to "Nam" three times. How many eggs did you cook while you were there brain damaged JJ?

  This is not about LDS. It is about FLDS. Big difference. But facts will not likely make any difference to you. I only get angry when I think about what an ignorant poor black child from the South who grew up to hate everything that is good in the country can be so, so out of touch with reality. I know you never respond, but I know you read this posts. Have a nice day jerk!

  Whew, yes I feel better.

• April 18, 2008

  1:05 p.m.

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  davies writes:

  lcdrjjxant: You're as bigoted as anyone I have ever read you complain about. Do you think being in a minority is an excuse for bigotry?

• April 18, 2008

  1:15 p.m.

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  redwhiteandBLUE writes:

  Maybe those poor woman can get out of those 'house on the prairie 'clothes, change the hair do and get eyebrow waxes, before they return, they'll feel more empowered they may not return.

• April 18, 2008

  1:18 p.m.

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  redwhiteandBLUE writes:

  Oh, about Rozita, when you call the police don't they respond to
  the home where the call came from ? How ..?

• April 18, 2008

  1:24 p.m.

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  OhBrother writes:

  No lcdrjjxant, you are the one who isn't doing any favors for balck people. You rarely make sense and always have problems, relax big guy.

  1 question i have is what kind of research would you need to do to figure out someone called from another state? How could she be in a texas compond and call from here?

  2-how did this lady know about this place and what was going on, regardless if false report she seemed to have some idea of situation.

  3-in was such a tragedy to hear how iraq treated there women, but this is somehow less important? We need more facts and data to address this issue but to begin a war, details aren't as important?

• April 18, 2008

  2:32 p.m.

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  happymike44 writes:

  I guess none of you have figured out that this is a cry for help.She is a disturbed person who needs help,not to go to jail.Many people go through life unoticed and feel a need for attention.I hope that she gets the help she needs.The sad point is she may have kept the police busy.While someone who really needed help did not get it.So it makes me wonder what do you do with a person like this.

• April 18, 2008

  2:57 p.m.

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  davies writes:

  happymike44: Maybe we haven't figured that out; or maybe, given the magnitude of the situation, you haven't figured out that we don't find that aspect to be of primary concern.

• April 18, 2008

  4:20 p.m.

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  somebunnyluvsme writes:

  Hey Mike44, I think that you have a valid point here, and most of the post aren't all that accusatory toward this lady. In fact I believe that our system in general is more than adequately predisposed to helping individuals in her situation. If I where to make an educated guess as to why the authorities seem to be taking a hard stance with her at this point. I would have to guess that they are trying to get her to come clean in regard to how she was privy to the detailed information that she provided in her call. She didn't after all just pull the mans name from thin air. I think there is a long way to go in both investigating the remaining unanswered questions, and in determining appropriate punishment for her!

• April 18, 2008

  6:19 p.m.

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  GWM writes:

  Hey all, the post lcdrjjxant put up, as ignorant as it was, has disappeared. Why would that be?

• April 18, 2008

  7:14 p.m.

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  snowbelly writes:

  I don't condone their doctrine , but a few facts please. The "bed" found in the temple was for the caretaker.The social service rep stated that several of the women appeared to have have conceived, not delivered, at 16 or 17, not thirteen.This is out of hundreds of women, better stats than your local junior high.Somehow the woman in springs doesn't look like they would have a place for her in texas.

• April 18, 2008

  8:20 p.m.

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  Sweetpickle writes:

  I guess the Texas police don't have caller Id.

• April 19, 2008

  10:32 a.m.

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  Gene writes:

  Hate to be the one to bring this up. Did anyone notice the complexion of the lady from Colorado Springs who possibly gave the inside tip about this compound. Think she has been inside this compound?

• April 19, 2008

  10:45 a.m.

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  jay writes:

  No...the raid was based on credible reports of abuse from various sources. These people are quite literally religious monsters. I hope they spend the rest of their lives in jail.

• April 19, 2008

  11:33 a.m.

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  HolierThanThou writes:

  From the story, I get that Swinton called Flora Jessop at the Child Protection Project, not the police. Jessop tipped off the police in Texas. Some of the Fundamentalist LDS cult's leaders have already been convicted for raping girls and calling it marriage. So, all FLDS members have already drawn suspicion on themselves. They all have good reason to worry.

  Freedom of religion does not protect criminal conduct. I would argue that it should in some cases, provided that there are no victims. The peyote religion of the Navajos is an example of illegal religion that doesn't victimize anyone. Marijuana smoking rastafarians may be weird but they're not in the habit of hurting anyone. Religion can even hurt. You can whip yourself, or get punctured in a sun dance, or roast yourself in a sweat lodge (my favorite).

  But I and most Americans refuse to tolerate raping kids. Child rapists belong in jail or lofted on a pike to dry out. Those who incite raping children by making it into a religion deserve even worse.

  All young women deserve to have a choice on whom they would like to pop their cherry or whether to. Brainwashing them into submission with a lot of religious hogwash adds grievous mental torment to the original crime.

• April 19, 2008

  11:37 a.m.

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  Jimminy writes:

  This is gonna be fun! I'd be wanting to cross-examine the Children's Services folks about:
  1)For how many underage welfare recipients in Texas is CPS' other branch paying money,medical,housing,tuition,and food stamp benefits? What is the total annual money amount of those benefits?
  2)Of the total number of the above-mentioned underage Texas welfare recipients,what percentage were actually required( as mandated by law) to prove that they were legal residents of The United States of America?
  3)On behalf of what percentage of the above-mentioned underage Texas welfare recipients did the Texas Attorney General file and litigate statutory rape charges?
  4)Of the entire staff of Children's sevices in Texas,what percentage is homosexual? What percentage favors gay marriage?Of those who favor gay marriage,what percentage is biased against other alternative marriage practices such as plural marriage?What percentage professes a religious affiliation?Atheism?
  5) What is the location of the telephone from which the original complaint call was made?
  6)What arrangements have been made for video surveillance of ALL CPS interrogations of the FLDS children now under warrantless detention?

• April 19, 2008

  12:48 p.m.

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  me2 writes:

  Islamic terrorists want 72 virgins in heaven, these men get their virgins while they are still alive.

  I hope they clear out this rats nest and let the sun shine in on all they do.

  Since babies are born in these complexes, if they are stillborn where are the death certificates? And where are the bodies?

  Jimminy, your number 4 just cracked me up. This is not an alternative marriage style, it is a crime against women.

• April 19, 2008

  1:19 p.m.

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  Jimminy writes:

  Me2-of course polygamy is an alternative marital choice.Just like the gay marriage for which you and so many other members of our little gang are such passionate advocates.Glad you threw in the word "crime".Now I get to talk about the law.Who gives a sh*t about the law? Certainly not you when it comes to illegals,although I must give you credit for Islamofascist zealotry relative to paternity statutes and the smoking ban.
  Me2,in the service of truth-in-blogging I must tell you that I picked up what I thought was your age(57)from a post that was actually written by someone else.I think I now recall from another post of yours several months ago that the real figure is perhaps a decade greater and that your youth actually predates mine by several years at least.Sorry.

• April 19, 2008

  1:50 p.m.

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  me2 writes:

  jimminy, old man, I am old. Polygamy is not legal here and I think it should be. But only for consenting adults. A look at these communities show that women and girls are like those in Islamic countries:brainwashed by religion and tightly controlled for the pleasure of men.

  I don`t think I have ever written on the illegal issue, did I? I said I was old, maybe I have opinions I don`t know about.

  I can`t believe all you smokers stayed out of bars and casinos just to see them fail so you could blame us, nons. How heartless.

  Love Sharon B.

• April 19, 2008

  3:59 p.m.

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  Jimminy writes:

  "I can't believe all you smokers stayed out of bars and casinos just to see them fail so you could blame us nons.How heartless"....
  How priceless! I think I'm in love.

• April 19, 2008

  4:06 p.m.

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  me2 writes:

  jimminy, this is like one of those Gothic novels where antagonists fall for each other. But you are such a kid.

• April 19, 2008

  4:59 p.m.

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  Jimminy writes:

  Can I be Heathcliff?

• April 19, 2008

  5 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  Jimminy writes:

  Or Chucky?

• April 19, 2008

  5:04 p.m.

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  ezekiel777 writes:

  i expect this case to be shown as a complete sham. texas is persecuting people for their religious beliefs..... whether you agree with them or not is of no consequence. if they can take this action towards these people then everyone is a target... maybe they don't like the way you pray and worship..... then expect a raid by the authorities...666 is on its way... anti-christ will soon to be revealed.

• April 19, 2008

  6:03 p.m.

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  Jimminy writes:

  But seriously now....Ezekiel has a point.Mormons,especially plural-marriage Mormons have been persecuted more than any other religious group in American history.In view of the virulent left-wing biases and the anti-religious anti-patriarchal bigotries that pervade the social work establishment,whose captive creation is Children's Services,we can make book that that agency will use any means necessary,legal or not,to bury the FLDS children,like the surviving Branch Davidian children before them,so deep in the foster care system that they'll never escape.

• April 19, 2008

  6:36 p.m.

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  me2 writes:

  Chucky and bride of Chucky. How come God never tells a man that women have to get three husbands to go to Heaven? Always with the harems.

  Women outside the polygamist community are their worst nightmare. The ones who escaped have an entire network of ladies working to free more girls, and by the way to rescue the young boys tossed out at 16 to keep them from competing with the old men for young wives. Those boys need child protective services also.

  Only recently have we heard about these abandoned boys.

• April 19, 2008

  7:35 p.m.

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  Jimminy writes:

  Hmmm...Doesn't the mom with a different dad for each child look a whole lot like polyandry? Now,in view of some folks making numerous references to humankind's animal nature,does it not follow that the male gender would attempt to mate with as many females as possible-and prevent other males from mating with said females.I do admit to some confusion,though,about some of our little gang citing animal behavior as justification for,say for example,out-of-wedlock parenting but then calling in the paternity police,say for example,in the case of a man whose manifestation of animal behavior is his refusal to waste assets on child support.
  Are some animals more equal than others?

• April 19, 2008

  9:39 p.m.

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  me2 writes:

  ezekiel, if an old man gets a 14 year old virgin and says Thank you Lord, oh thank you", that is not religion.

  jimminy , no one has ever started a religion that says a woman needs three husbands to go to heaven. See the diff? Looking for Josephina Smith here.

  It is also the animal nature of women to make the guys pay to play. Isn`t instinct fun.

  I think men are like elk, they like harems, even when they are too old to produce little ones.

  It is also human nature, animal or not, for 14 year old girls to prefer 14 year old, or maybe 24 year old men to 50+.

• April 20, 2008

  midnight

  Suggest removal

  Jimminy writes:

  Well,the guys are into paying when needs must.Probably doesn't hurt that the kids benefit...BUT if women are continually strapped for what they need for said kids,it's never a bad idea to consider good product quality assurance as a positive influence on the revenue stream.Payment takes forms other than money;product takes forms other than what is commonly(and lasciviously)visualized.

• April 20, 2008

  9:16 a.m.

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  andi38 writes:

  I can't believe this case is still going on the way it is. There has been no evidence of abuse, but several key things stand out:

  - False report of abuse from someone who is fixated on the FLDS
  - Child Protection Program that headed up this riot is a former member with an issue with the FLDS
  - Lack of proper protocol from CPS regarding abuse and necessary steps made before children are removed (i.e, amazing # of people who actually hit, sexually abuse and do drugs are allowed to receive 'counseling' and keep kids in the home while investigations are pending)
  - Key expert states that the children will be worse off in the state run Foster care environment
  - Judge does not seem to have any foresight on a creative plan to protect all involved (parents and children, esp. the mothers)
  - They are saying it would be 'too hard' to allow the women and children to go back and keep the men out (yet the sect themselves seem to not have had a problem being secluded) seems to me this would be the 1) CHEAPEST and 2) MOST BENEFICIAL TO THE MENTAL HEALTH OF THESE KIDS AND MOMS (*Oh but Foster Care is BETTER????) Sure - how many kids in foster care are abused and moved around so much that they end up needing more help?

  The way CPS and this court are handling this case is horrible. I agree though, they shouldn't be marrying the girls and having multiple wives.. (however in other countries, this is not really a 'BAD' thing) but they are punishing and abusing those kids by the way the 'State' thinks they should 'live'. There are other solutions than just taking them away from the mothers, and they obviously are not going to get a fair trial (another report states that they will not be giving the kids to the moms)?

  Is this justice or a witch hunt?

• April 20, 2008

  1:20 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  me2 writes:

  andi38, the boys will be better off than worked hard with all their money going to the church till they hit 16, then told to hit the road with an inadequate education, no money, and no family.

  Multiple wives does not mean multiple adult wives. These randy old men want the 14 year olds.

• April 20, 2008

  3:25 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  andi38 writes:

  me2, I haven't heard or seen any of these teens that are kicked out? I don't know that side of it so I can't say much, but that it is a different issue.

  There is no way that the road that they are going right now with "this is the only solution - to take ALL the kids away from their mothers" it is short-sighted and lacks creativity. If the females are victims, then why are they being punished again? The adult women deserve a chance to be heard and be with the children, period (all of them, boys and girls).

  It would also be a good insight to see just how many men are older and married to these underage girls, since as far as we can tell, we have no idea. What proof do they have that encompasses EVERYONE that lives there?? guilty before proven innocent? Oh, right they have someone in power who has a personal vendetta against them.

• April 20, 2008

  4:27 p.m.

  Suggest removal

  me2 writes:

  andi38, there were numerous stories about what they call "the lost boys" in the Post and News when Jessep (sp) was arrested. These children do not have a normal childhood in these complexes. The boys start construction work young, give most or all of their income to the church, and are kicked out for going to a movie, flirting with a girl, or asking too many questions. The old men do not want young men to compete for the young girls.

  This very much reminds me of Islam. Using religion to control and brainwash girls. They home school, naturally, these kids and teach them that the outside world is all evil, and they will lose their souls if they go outside, or even make friends outside.

  Local law enforcement often picks up these girls on the roads and returns them home.

  The first thing to find out is the age of the mothers when they were "married in spirit" that is what they call it, and the age of their first delivery. Also, where are the stillborn babies? Many of these women gave birth at home. What happens if a delivery goes wrong, they don`t take the moms to local hospitals when they can help it.

  Children who escape these places, say that all of their dads wives are called "mother" and children are punished if they develop too close a relationship with their natural mothers.

  Does all this sound to you like anything close to a normal childhood?

  In order to judge these cults, you must first stop thinking of them as a religion and feeling pity or sympathy for them. This is sexual slavery with brain washed victims who can not leave or they lose their children for good.

  None of this is about religion or the marriages of consenting, well educated adults.

  Because many of us hold religion and marriage sacred, people have been afraid to interfere with these cults.

  Look up "Tapestry of Polygamy" on Google and see the stories of the "wives" who lived in these cults.

• April 24, 2008

  5:01 a.m.

  Suggest removal

  CRWolf writes:

  If this was a white woman that called in and the result was the separation black children from their black parents and distributed them across the state of Texas, what would the media say?
  This is black on white child abuse. Is this a hate crime?