Sunday booze becomes law
Ritter signs bill despite outcry from grocers
By Roger Fillion, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published April 14, 2008 at 12:07 p.m.
With the Sunday booze bill passed, would you go the next step and pass a bill allowing liquor sales in grocery stores?
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Photo by Dennis Schroeder / The Rocky
Tom Curcio, owner of Happy Canyon Wine & Spirits, stocks shelves on Monday. Soon he'll be able to sell on Sunday.
Colorado officially joined the ranks of nearly three dozen other states where consumers can walk into a liquor store on Sunday and buy booze.
At the Capitol Monday, Gov. Bill Ritter signed into law a bill that allows liquor stores to open Sundays - in effect, scrapping a 75-year-old law that banned the practice.
Colorado becomes the 35th state to allow Sunday liquor sales, although consumers will have to wait until July to do so. The state has banned Sunday booze sales since the repeal of Prohibition in 1933.
"The ban on Sunday sales was an antiquated law that long ago outlived its usefulness or relevance," Ritter said in a statement.
The new law takes effect July 1. The first Sunday on which sales can occur will be July 6. The law is voluntary for liquor store owners, although many have said they plan to open.
The new law came about after liquor store owners dropped their long-standing opposition to Sunday sales.
They did so to help kill a bill that would have allowed grocery and convenience stores to sell full-strength beer and wine.
Grocers and convenience store operators had urged Ritter to veto the Sunday sales bill, saying it would give liquor stores a seven-day-a-week "monopoly" over the sale of full-strength beer.
Ritter didn't heed that call.
"We didn't think that it made for an unlevel commercial playing field," Ritter told reporters after the bill-signing.
Grocery and convenience-store owners renewed their call Monday for legislation that would allow them to sell full-strength beer, saying their sales of 3.2 percent alcohol beer will suffer once liquor stores open Sundays.
Ritter declined to take a stand on the that issue.
"We'll wait and see if that comes forward," he said.
fillionr@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-2467
IN HIS OWN WORDS
Tom Curcio, owner Happy Canyon Wine & Spirits, on the new Sunday sales law:
"We're definitely going to be opening on Sundays. We're going to have limited hours, probably from noon to 6 p.m.
We've gotten a favorable response from our clientele about this law passing. They're happy that we're going to be there on Sundays. It will satisfy the convenience question for them.
We'll be able to handle it with existing staff. We'll rotate our schedules. In the past, I've worked part of Sunday anyway, catching up on errands I was supposed to run. There's always a little something to do.
The staff is looking forward to it as a key selling day. Obviously, we're going to do more business."
Sunday liquor sales Q&A
* What does the new law do?
It allows liquor stores to open Sundays.
* When does it take effect?
July 1. The first Sunday when the sales can occur will be July 6.
* Do liquor stores have to open on Sundays?
No. The law is voluntary for liquor store owners. But many have said they plan to open Sundays, perhaps with shorter hours.
* What's the status of the bill to allow grocery and convenience stores to sell full-strength beer and wine?
Lawmakers killed that bill amid strong opposition from liquor store owners.
* Are grocery and convenience stores seeking other laws?
They've been trying - without success - to get lawmakers to introduce a bill late this session allowing them to sell full- strength beer. Grocers and convenience store operators also are threatening a ballot initiative on the issue.
Other 'blue' laws
Colorado currently bars auto dealers from selling cars on Sundays. Gov. Bill Ritter was asked about changing that after he signed the Sunday liquor bill.
"That's a good question. Again, that hasn't come to me," he said. "But it is something that I suspect that this bill may give rise to."
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April 14, 2008
12:56 p.m.
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Ztliano writes:
YEY, I'm getting trashed then going to Church on Sundays!
April 14, 2008
1:12 p.m.
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timeandagain writes:
Now they need to let grocery stores sell booze and liquor stores sell convenience food items and we will be in the 21st Century!
April 14, 2008
1:23 p.m.
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FlyfishDude52 writes:
I was under the impression that some things are sacred, like Sunday.
I still believe that. Too bad the rest of you amoral folks and aclu'ers can't seem to see why we had such laws to begin with.
April 14, 2008
1:23 p.m.
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adtypeanddesign writes:
Just watch the mom-and-pop liquor stores go out of business as a result of this new law and then you have more empty storefronts. Sunday is the only day off most of them can enjoy. Unfortunately, the big box liquor stores will be the only winners as a result.
April 14, 2008
1:36 p.m.
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Shaupeen writes:
One more archaic law gone. Good riddance. That's a little bit less control for the church, and a little bit more personal choice for me. What's next?
April 14, 2008
1:39 p.m.
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CaptainObvious writes:
Why is Sunday sacred Flyfish? And while you're "bettering" us with such knowledge, please further explain "why we had such laws to begin with [sic]?"
April 14, 2008
1:47 p.m.
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robertzimmerman writes:
Hey FlyfishDude52
That's the great thing about living in America, isn't it? You can hold Sunday sacred, and I don't have to.
April 14, 2008
1:53 p.m.
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Spencer writes:
No fly fishing on Sundays LOL. If you still want to live somewhere that holds certain days of the week sacred, you could move to Iran.
April 14, 2008
1:55 p.m.
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jahsa003 writes:
Freedom OF religion also includes Freedom FROM religion. There should be no law with religious basis other than the laws protecting that freedom.
No one will make you buy alcohol on Sunday if you are religious, just as after July 1, no law will stop one from buying alcohol if they are not.
April 14, 2008
1:59 p.m.
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mtnrunner2 writes:
>Too bad the rest of you amoral folks and aclu'ers can't seem to see why we had such laws to begin with.
What is amoral is someone thinking they have the right to interfere with my right to buy products from others at whatever time, place and cost we both see fit.
Bravo, Ritter, legislators, and Colorado, for finally gettting rid of this ridiculous restriction!
April 14, 2008
2:10 p.m.
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jmfslots writes:
The liquor stores were crying the blues over grocers and others selling liquor- saying it would take business away from them. Now they will be open on Sunday and take sales away from convenience stores and grocers- They think that is fine. Colorado needs to get with the current lifestyle and current century. Allow grocery stores, convenience stores and big box retailers to sell liquor, wine and full strength beer also. Why even have 3.2 beer? Liquor stores have a monopoly and that is not right.
April 14, 2008
2:14 p.m.
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MattGuyver_007 writes:
Regardless, it's refreshing to see our legislatures do something other than tax and spend.
I'm going with the idea that FlyFishDude is kidding. If not, there's an Amish colony that could use a good carpenter.
April 14, 2008
2:25 p.m.
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ruckus writes:
Great! no more sneaking back into line for holy communion, was kinda getting sick of wine.
April 14, 2008
2:28 p.m.
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Herme writes:
Thank you Dan2 for pointing out that liquor stores do not have to open on Sundays, they now can if they so choose. As for adding an employee or employees, they will have to abide workers comp laws which may cause a monetary problem for some. Quite possibly adding to the price of booze for us. But I don't care, no more late Saturday night runs for this guy! By the way, what is the legal hour that they may open? Hope it's before the first football game!
April 14, 2008
3:19 p.m.
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MrBrightSide writes:
"Just watch the mom-and-pop liquor stores go out of business as a result of this new law and then you have more empty storefronts. Sunday is the only day off most of them can enjoy. Unfortunately, the big box liquor stores will be the only winners as a result."
I've been outsourced and lost my job a result, had companies sell out to competition just after hiring me, and watched our manufacturing base go overseas looking for the 'cheap solution', so I'm okay with that.
It's all choices, that's what I've been told. Take your turn on our ever changing socio-economic merry go round. There ARE NO guarantees. Corporations rule the land. Why should mom-and-pop liquor stores have it any different?
April 14, 2008
3:53 p.m.
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Kered writes:
jahas003 is absolutley correct on this one!
April 14, 2008
4:33 p.m.
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davies writes:
mtnrunner2: "What is amoral is someone thinking they have the right to interfere with my right to buy products from others at whatever time, place and cost we both see fit."
Stolen goods? Drugs? Sex? Underage sex? Human organs? Babies? Rocket propelled grenades? Anthrax? You can buy 'em all for the right price. There are limits don't you think?
April 14, 2008
5:30 p.m.
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happymike44 writes:
Well lets see why should someone control what I can do with my sunday.Also why make it illegal to buy beer on sunday it is just ridiculous.I mean I do not need a bunch of religious do gooders telling me what to do.I don't rob rape and steal,so what is a beer going to hurt.I am happy to see a group of sensible people who decided that,they will allow people to make up their own mind and take accountabilty for your own actions.So this is just my opinion but tell me what you think.
April 14, 2008
6:13 p.m.
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dtsdct5 writes:
stolen goods, drugs, underage sex, sex , human organs, babies and all that other stuff are available to you and I anytime we see fit to go buy them. It is the whole concept you are trying to bash that you just supported. We can go buy these things but we chose not to. We are the ones that choose the limits that are set. We decide not to go buy drugs, or stolen goods, or sex so why can we not decide if we want to go buy beer or wine on Sunday? This is not a hard concept, in Arizona the law says the residents can buy beer and such on Sunday and believe to or not the church parking lots are still full, the cities do not come to a complete stop and all the people have learned to co-exist. We all have different views on all topics, this one is no different.
April 14, 2008
7:04 p.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
"olorado needs to get with the current lifestyle and current century. Allow grocery stores, convenience stores and big box retailers to sell liquor, wine and full strength beer also."
that wasn't the deal, really. we would have essentially given grocery stores and walmart the ability to become chain liquor stores in this state if we allow them to sell booze.
liquor stores, on the other hand, can not chain out. giving grocery/convenience the right to sell WOULD have been a GREATLY unfair advantage to independent liquor stores.
i agree we should get with the times, but to do that we need to make sure liquor stores would be able to chain. of course, that would TRULY kill the mom and pop stores, as very few places could compete with the bulk buying that an argonaut liquors could put up.
April 14, 2008
10:40 p.m.
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platoro79 writes:
bhaney01 tells it like is!! Thanks u said what I was thinking.
April 15, 2008
1:35 a.m.
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angryman1n writes:
Outstanding... now i can pregame, got to church, then roll right into football w/o missing a beat!
Communion is a great sustainer.
Al-Co-Hall (deer-deer-deer-do) Al-Co-Hall!
April 15, 2008
3:18 a.m.
Suggest removal
wolfie writes:
how about this? take liquor sales out of grocery stores and leave it to a liquor store. since you have to be 21 to buy it , keep it separated from the grocery store which anyone can use, including minors. selling liquor would then be given to less people apt to make a mistake of selling to minors.
April 15, 2008
3:58 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
I love a stiff drink; one day each week belonged unto God...give it back! America was always under God...
April 15, 2008
8:28 a.m.
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Kslayer writes:
Hey, FlyFishDude, I'm with you man. This is America, We have freedoms, and I guess if you want to get drunk on Sunday, then thats your choice. It's just kind of sad I guess. It was just nice to know that maybe just maybe there was a kid or two out there that didn't have to see mom or dad, maybe both getting hammered on the patio Sunday because they didn't make it to the Liquor store Saturday night.
Now, I'm sure I will get torn to pieces by most of you saying that Parents could go to the bar anyway to get drunk, but I like to think the Sunday ban stopped a few people from drinking the whole weekend. I guess this is what Freedom is all about! So, Congrats to the State for scoring more Tax money, and Congrats to the liquor store Owners for more sales. Most of all, Congrats to the Drunks! Cheers to you, Here is to many hang over mondays!
April 15, 2008
8:55 a.m.
Suggest removal
mtnrunner2 writes:
>Stolen goods? Drugs? Sex? Underage sex? Human organs? Babies? Rocket propelled grenades? Anthrax? You can buy 'em all for the right price. There are limits don't you think?
The principle should be whether or not a transaction is between consenting adults and abstains from any form of violence and fraud. This rules out stolen goods, military weapons, children/people, and germs.
The government has absolutely no right to prevent the buying and selling of alcohol on a certain day of the week. I am an adult, can buy it on every other day, and it does not involve violence against anyone, so both the liquor shop and I should be able to engage in this transaction free from interference whenever we like. It’s nobody’s business but ours.
See: Rand, Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal.
April 15, 2008
8:59 a.m.
Suggest removal
MGD writes:
I doubt that there will be a drastic increase in weekly sales but I'm sure liquor sales in the second half of Saturday will level off or drop. No need for people to race to the store on Saturday evening to stock up for Sunday.
I don't think there is anything in the bible that says Sunday should be alcohol-free. I think the same rules apply all week. Keeping Sunday holy means something different to some people I guess but it was generally an admonishment against working for profit. Just my opinion. You can still keep it holy in any way you choose but since wine was ubiquitous as a drink in biblical days, I would guess Jesus drank it on Sunday. I'm just guessing here and I'm not out to offend anyone.
April 15, 2008
9:05 a.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
Yeah! More drunks! That will move Colorado "into the 21st century"! Party time for the increase in drunks on the streets! That's how we Democrats define "progress"!
The funniest line that Ritter used to excuse this payout to the special intests that gave him campaign donations and demanded he return the favor.... " I don't believe this will increase the level of alcohol consumption."
Lesson for the low IQ crowd.... INCREASING the availability of a substance increases the likelihood of use of the substance. Just ask Starbucks and Walmart if increasing the number of their stores across the planet had the result of INCREASING or DECREASING the sales of their products? Increased availability = increased use.
Any moron knows the reason that if Starbucks and Walmart had just ONE store on the planet, they would have a microscopic fraction of the sales they have today.
How stupid (or drunk) do you need to be to fail to understand that basic common sense logic? Ritter must have been drunk when he dreamed up that excuse for paying off his special interest buddies.
April 15, 2008
9:10 a.m.
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holekeeper writes:
hey hey now Ritter is not "making Deals" is he. sounds like more plea bargans, Now he will make an automatic plea bargan for DUI's given in sunday to jay walking. Can we take his man card away now?
April 15, 2008
10:13 a.m.
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MGD writes:
RickG
If Sunday liquor sales caused an increase of 10% I would be shocked. The example you use does not apply unless you are thinking that hundreds of new liquor stores are going into business now.
The stores that exist have sold liquor 6 days a week. I can't find a link to support this with numbers but based on my experience in liquor stores, I would say that Fridays and Saturdays are the biggest days in terms of sales. Many people drink on those days since they often don't have to work the morning after. Sunday sales would probably have numbers similar to other days of the week where people have to work the next day. Also, Saturday sales may drop a bit because people will have the option of Sunday.
Most people have a limited budget for things like liquor so I don't see the dramatic increase some people fear.
The point of contention that I have is that this is a special-interest piece of legislation. Why bother to do this and not allow grocery stores to sell liquor.
Anyone who wants lower prices on their booze should petition the CO legislature to allow grocery store sales. That would increase competition and lower prices in a hurry.
Maybe we could even get some two-buck Chuck in Colorado!
Just don't pull a Melo...
April 15, 2008
10:37 a.m.
Suggest removal
holekeeper writes:
MGD,
you have just made the best point in this posting. I hate to do this but I agree with every word.
April 15, 2008
10:53 a.m.
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sam80241 writes:
Having the Kingsooper and Safeway sell liquors will hurt all independent small liquor store. They will sell the products at a lose to kill the liquor stores owner, They can do that because
1- They can afford it.
2- They can spread the lose all over there big store.
if they allow the liquor store to sell milk, magazine, video etc... the problem is that we have no space to do that nor we can match the pricing the big chain can offered . so its a losing propostion for us.
I own a liquor store, We have estimated that if the law passes which will allow chain market to carry wine and beer there will be between 45-55 % closer of small liquor stores in colorado.
with that in mind think about the immediate impact and the chain reaction toward bankruptcy cases that the tax payer ha to pay for those small business loan that has been guarantees by tax payer. not to include the employment lose, not to include the foreclosures ,
when Kingsoooper and safeway control the market how can you have a choice of fair pricing
THIS BILL IS ANTI SMALL BUSINESS WE KEEP MONEY , EMPLOYMENT'S IN COLORADO IF YOU LIKE YOU MONEY TO GO TO SOME CEO IN ANOTHER STATE TO SAVE A BUCK THEN VOTE FOR IT
April 15, 2008
11:10 a.m.
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sam80241 writes:
its your choice enjoy walmart controlling the whole USA with there Chinese backup.
April 15, 2008
11:15 a.m.
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TheDenverB writes:
"The funniest line that Ritter used to excuse this payout to the special intests that gave him campaign donations and demanded he return the favor."
you CLEARLY have no idea what you are discussing here.
April 15, 2008
11:18 a.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
mgd:
"The point of contention that I have is that this is a special-interest piece of legislation. Why bother to do this and not allow grocery stores to sell liquor."
again,
we would have essentially given grocery stores and walmart the ability to become chain liquor stores in this state if we allow them to sell booze.
liquor stores, on the other hand, can not chain out by law. giving grocery/convenience the right to sell WOULD have been a GREATLY unfair advantage to independent liquor stores.
April 15, 2008
11:22 a.m.
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holekeeper writes:
I didnt want it because now you bacically force the mom and pop storey to open on sunday. Most of the little stores are run by the owners and now thier only day off will go away. I want grocery stores to sell I just would like a level playing field. Wal-mart, king soopers and the such has enough employees that everybody gets time off to spend else where, not the mom and pop stores. Sell in the grocery stores where the price is lower, but lets give mom and pop a day off. and sam80241 and I know I am going to catch hell for this one, but I dont care. I care about the price I pay, I have been to the other states that sell on sunday and I have seen lots of little stores. Ill give you a day off, but I wont give you a free pass, you own the buisness you have to find a way to maximise profits, its consumer choice. I mean when you buy a car do you want the best price for you or do you talk them up in price so the salesperson gets a better commision? please !!!!!
April 15, 2008
11:44 a.m.
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sam80241 writes:
Holekeeper:
Sorry people like you who are responsible for the job lose in the usa , To save a buck all our jobs is lost to china ,Mexico Etc.... , I do not shop at wall mart no sams club because I'm for good wages i don't pay minimum wage for my employee's , So enjoy your trickle down economics the richer walmart the richer you are.
April 15, 2008
11:49 a.m.
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dilligaf writes:
I see it this way. Maybe this will encourage more people to stay home and drink on Sunday rather than go to bars and drive home drunk.
April 15, 2008
11:55 a.m.
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redwhiteandBLUE writes:
That will put 'the Sunday bootlegger out of business" LOL
April 15, 2008
12:20 p.m.
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sam80241 writes:
yes working at wall mart can keep my house sure they offer great health insurance and great paying job(maybe so if move to china),as far benefit that will be gone in a couple of years keep dreaming and might as well learn chinese in the mean time
April 15, 2008
12:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
Bagel writes:
This is a post from a while back, but the rationale continually irks me.
Posted by LOUIE on April 15, 2008 at 3:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"I love a stiff drink; one day each week belonged unto God...give it back! America was always under God..."
First, many of the founding fathers were not religious. Jefferson, the father of the Declaration, considered much of the Bible to be lies.
Secondly, the phrase "Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 under Eisenhower. That's pretty far from America being "always under God"
April 15, 2008
12:48 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
mtnrunner2: Your 8:55 comments indicate that you think I am opposed to Sunday liquor sales, but this is not the case. I just thought your statement that no one should "interfere with my right to buy products from others at whatever time, place and cost we both see fit" needed some qualification as to the types of products.
I am in favor of the change. I won't really buy more liquor as a result, but it may save me from having to make a special trip sometimes on Saturdays if I want something to drink for Sunday. Regardless of what others think, now I can just stop at the liquor store on my way home from church once in awhile.
April 15, 2008
1:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
holekeeper writes:
sam80241
First wal-mart pays more than the minimum wage, Not a lot but it is more, and how much do the mom and pop stores pay thier employees, cant be much more than minimum wage its a dumb arguement. secont to your rant, companies are moving to other countries because they can improve profit. This is a money making buisness. Im sorry but we asked for it. we cry that people are losing thier jobs but do nothing but raise taxes so they do move. Its not trickle down, but basic economics. Just like smaller stores not paying much more than minimum wage.
Second
Dan2
I understnad the law but how many are going to be forced to stay open just to stay competitive? almost all. you know it and I know it. I never said they had to open by law I just want compitition. I am sorry you mis-understood my wording I will try to work on that.
I am in agreement with dilligaf and RickyLee.
you have always been able to buy booze on sundays just not in a store all bars are open. Just like you cant buy from a store after midnight but can drink in a bar untill 2am. Plus all the smart drinkers bought enough beer for sunday on saturday. Please someone yell at me because I like to spend my hard earned dollar how I want to spend it. walmart is not the devil, They are smart buisness people, by the way dems....Hillary was a wal-mart lawyer for years in little rock go you better start liking wal-mart if she get elected to pres. because if you dont think she owes them favors you cant cry about chenny and halliburton any more.
April 15, 2008
1:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
Bagel writes:
As far as grocers selling booze, they'll never be able to offer the variety that a dedicated liquor store offers. The Sam's Club in Louisville has liquor, but it's a pitiful selection. Sure, if I'm in there I'll pick up a bottle of Jack, but anyone who likes variety in their beer (and Colorado likes their microbrews) will realize they still have to go somewhere else too.
April 15, 2008
1:18 p.m.
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Bagel writes:
holekeeper
as far your political commentary, why do people always think that voting for a particular party means blind allegiance to its leaders? Since we realistically only have two parties I'm going to vote for the lesser of two evils and still complain when that candidate is awful. Too many people think shutting up is the only way to be loyal.
April 15, 2008
1:19 p.m.
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holekeeper writes:
good point Bagel, I had not even thought of that point thank you.
April 15, 2008
1:30 p.m.
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holekeeper writes:
With the Democrats blind alleigance seems to be the word. If you disagree with even one thing they stand for you are called names. I have delt with this for a while now working in Boulder. I was simply making a point about wal-mart since I chose to beleive something and was basically called a jerk for thinking the way I do. I am willing to listen to other people and even have had to agree with people I dont want to. I have been found to be wrong and even posted as much. I will not however stand by and listen to people say that Bush started to war because his family was in the oil buisness, and Halliburton got the Iraq contracts so Chenny could make money then have somebody tell me Wal-mart is bad and i am wrong for how I feel and not point out something. I think all three canidated suck. I think Bill Ritter sucks, I dont agree with about 50% of what bush puts out. I am not blind but I am sick of prople saying I am stupid for how I feel.
April 15, 2008
1:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
sam writes:
Seriously! I haven't read all of the comments, but some seem to be suggesting that people who go to church on Sundays don't drink alcohol. Or that if we are allowed to buy alcohol on Sundays we will start consuming alcohol on Sundays, because up until this point we haven't. The argument is so hypocritical! People take communion and drink wine on Sunday, every Sunday, sometimes many times on a Sunday. The priest is drinking it at every mass, oh, but it's OK because it symbolizes the blood of Christ, but IT'S STILL ALCOHOL! I bet some of those priests are very happy that they can now stop by the liquor store to enjoy a few brewskies while they watch the game. And they deserve it! By the way, I never knew that Eisenhower added the "under God" to the Pledge and I'm totally offended! I'm just as spiritual as the next guy, but the United States of America and the men who wrote the Constitution made it a point to guarantee a separation of church and state. Maybe there are some legitimate reasons why having liquor sold on Sundays is a bad idea, but none of those reasons should involve religion. I don't believe in "god" or that Jesus is my savior (get ready for a bunch of people to tell me I'm going to hell, and I'll see you there) and would you believe that I'm not going to race to the liquor store every Sunday and get hammered and bash religion! You can actually not be a Christian and still lead a healthy life free of drugs and alcohol. I have a life to!
April 15, 2008
1:39 p.m.
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Bagel writes:
Good for you holekeeper, but my post wasn't party specific. I think a good majority of both Pubs and Dems have a problem with that blind allegiance.
April 15, 2008
1:43 p.m.
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holekeeper writes:
Dan2,
Thank you and yes I do understand your point. I will probibly be proven wrong but as of now that is how I feel. I wasnt really intrested in this whole thing until I observed what people were writing and became frustrated. I honestly have not looked into this much or really cared because I had my drinking days years ago and dont do It much anymore. Then it bacame a political thing and I was trapped because I am hot headed. Thank you dan2 you have managed to calm me down with your kind words. I can now go and see how my fantisy baseball team is doing.
April 15, 2008
1:49 p.m.
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Bagel writes:
Dan2, while it's possible what you said regarding the pledge is true, I've definitely read Ike had the bill sponsored as a result of a sermon about Lincoln's Gettysburg address.
April 15, 2008
2:10 p.m.
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holekeeper writes:
Dan2
I am really making people mad in the melo room!
April 15, 2008
2:15 p.m.
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sam writes:
The fact that "IN GOD WE TRUST" being all caps was meant to prevent the public from identifying with a specific god did not prevent me from identifying a specific god, so I guess it doesn't work. IN GOD WE TRUST shoudln't be on our money anyway. We all use this money, and yet we don't all believe in god. It's just another example of specific people in the government putting their belief system onto everyone else. I'm not "anti-god," I think people have an absolute right to their beliefs. Someone else earlier had mentioned that the freedom OF religion is as important as the freedom FROM religion and I think they're right. And now we're not talking about Sunday liquor sales anymore. Anyway, thanks for the new info, because I didn't know that either. I consider myself a pretty smart gal who keeps updated with news and cultural events and such, and I had no idea about either of those facts, so I wonder how other people are supposed to know the meanings of certain things. Why would anyone have a reason to investigate? We take for grantite that some things "just are." I guess I would've never thought to find out when "under god" was added to the constitution, because I thought it was always there, even though I was made to say it every morning in school from kindergarten to high school. No teacher ever thought to teach me the history behind the pledge. And the mint never thought to ensure that I understand the meaning behind phrases and symbols on my money. I think it's time to do a little questioning in other areas. Thanks again!
April 15, 2008
2:31 p.m.
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Bagel writes:
I think this is a really unimportant thing to be arguing about, but hey, I've got time.
I tried to look that up in the Thomas library, but after ten minutes I gave up. Do you have a link?
I couldn't find anywhere on the net anyone disputing that Ike got the ball rolling on the legislation. I did read that the Knights of Columbus had previously lobbied for such legislation unsuccessfully. The turning point was the sermon Ike attended.
April 15, 2008
2:39 p.m.
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holekeeper writes:
Hey what about the booze people. I want people yelling, and mad and calling names, and all of that this getting along and talking and auctally listining is boring. I dont want to get my facts straight i want UFC fighting with weapons!!!! Just joking. I am glad to see this everyone and I am glad to say I was part of it I am happy. I know that sounds dumb but I am
April 15, 2008
4:05 p.m.
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BKindel writes:
This thread has generated a lot more heat than light.
My personal take is that government has no legitimate interest in regulating which days which products are sold. Government DOES have a legitimate interest in preventing employers from unreasonably trampling on their employee's rights to worship with their faith communities on their respective Sabbath days (Sunday or otherwise).
As for the bill just passed to allow Sunday liquor sales, I'm in favor. I'm also in favor of eliminating the 3.2 beer restriction on supermarkets and convenience stores, but that's a different bill that should not have been conflated with this one.
April 15, 2008
4:07 p.m.
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NewSanit writes:
Forget that Sunday is a day of rest and to worship.But then most people that want to drink, get drunk and then drive are not the ones who are at church on Sunday. This will be just one more day that they can get drunk and then go and kill someone in their killing machine. All in the name of FREEDOM. The freedom to drink, then drive and kill we are all so very civilized.
April 15, 2008
4:54 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Bagel, I believe Jefferson makes mention of God a couple of times in the Declaration.
April 15, 2008
5:37 p.m.
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sam80241 writes:
Holekeeper:
We are not controlling the market you can still go to total beverage or daveco and buy at lower prices from them, or from many of the liquor stores which they are on every corner. let assume that all liquor store goes out of business such as many of the mom and pop video store when blockbuster arrived to the market and competed with all small store renting for 99C , how much the rent now at BB $4.79 and please do not tell me about netflix. if only krogers and safeway they are left to sell booze. how are you suppose to get the best price. what if one of them leave the market like albertson. then what. what if wall mart owns everything how are you going to get the best price?
The main different between you and me that i care about other people i care about job lose people loosing there house Etc..... all you care is about you .
April 15, 2008
6:27 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
It seems society has incorporated the biblical 9 commandments into our laws, why not all 10? Also, correct me if I am wrong, but weren't some of our founding fathers masons? Why is it assumed the separation of church and state is often conscrued to mean our founding fathers were Godless in thier private beliefs? One day given to God; whether Jew or Gentile, whether the Sabbath day or Sunday, some of us bow to God, many don't. Jefferson stated "..to assume among the powers of the earth the seperate and equal station to which the laws of nature and natures God entitle them.." , ".. endowed by thier creator with certain inalienable rights...". I believe he capitalized God. Bagel, why would Jefferson make reference to God in the Declaration of Independance if he possessed no belief in God? Lastly, I believe many of the early immigrants from Europe came here to avoid religious persecutions. Jamestown was surely religious. America always recognized God, thus under God. I understand President Eisenhower and it's addition to the pledge, yet His presence was always mentioned. Hey, I am a minority opinion on this informal blog for sure, once I believe this opinion I've expressed was in the majority. Does congress still open with prayer, where is the separation when our leaders bow thier heads before affairs of state? I say give one day a week to God...
April 15, 2008
7:50 p.m.
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Bagel writes:
I think if you reread my comment I say that Jefferson thought most of the Bible was lies. Are you aware there is something called the Jefferson Bible, in which he excises all mention of supernaturalism leaves only basic morality.
Jefferson was religious in the Deism sense, which is why he specifically used terminology such as "nature's God". There is a huge difference between that and jumping to conclusions about 'holding the sabbath sacred'.
April 16, 2008
5:46 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
I am aware of the Jeffersonian Bible; my comment was more directed to your statement concerning the broad assumption many of the founding fathers were not religious. I beg to differ.
April 16, 2008
7:15 a.m.
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LOUIE writes:
If Jefferson wrote a bible on the Lord in his perspective, would it not suffice to say Jefferson had deeply religious concerns? We all have differing viewpoints on God, I don't many whose belief doesn't incorporate His laws in thier everyday life. I am not one schooled well enough, nor do I live according to His law; my knee however bows to His presence. Like the thief who hung alongside on his own conviction, what have I lost in hour of my death to bow to God? In layman terms, if I am wrong what have I lost? If I never acknowledged His divinity, I am destined to lose. I do believe when patriots met in America's early years, it was often in churches. We were always under God. The church was the gathering place in early America; the townhall if you will. Ever see a town without a church? Don't forsake what belongs to God, His hand guided our nation to greatness, look at the nations who persecuted His power. What happened to the Soviet Union, a nation of long history? Where is Nazi Germany? What's happening in China? Why is Isreal outnumbered on all sides by her enemies, and still prevails? America, I pray, never loses it's faith in God. I am by the life I lead not qualified to honor God, but I will confess His presence much as Jefferson did in America's Declaration of Independence. I can give one day to God...
April 16, 2008
9:14 a.m.
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BirdonaWire writes:
You give your one day to God. Is that enough? I still argue that liquor sales should be banned once a week. Wednesday.
You don't HAVE to buy booze, you don't HAVE to sell booze, you HAVE the option.
I'll honor "God" on Sunday not by going to a church, but by reveling in his creation, (this is God's country afterall), possibly sipping a glass of wine (that I may have purchased that day!). I won't get drunk because I have to work the next morning and I hate feeling hungover. I won't drive intoxicated.
Sober Wednesdays for Morality!!!!!
April 16, 2008
9:18 a.m.
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BirdonaWire writes:
Oh, and wouldn't allowing Sunday sales theoretically keep more drunks OFF the roads by keeping them out of bars and at home?
April 16, 2008
9:25 a.m.
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MGD writes:
TheDenverB,
Interesting, I didn't know there was a law preventing liquor stores from operating as a chain. I guess for King Soopers to sell alcochol would mean that another odd law would be changed.
April 16, 2008
11:14 a.m.
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Bagel writes:
Louie, the problem with your rationale is that 'religious' and 'christian' do not meet the same thing. Jefferson particular was clearly against the concept of christianity. His bible takes out all mention of interventionist gods, miracles, etc...
Washington would walk out of church so he didn't have to take communion, which is commonly what the non-believers who still went to church would do.
But I'm not going to convince you of anything, since you don't want to hear it.
April 16, 2008
11:58 a.m.
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JB writes:
Jeeze Sam-
You again. You do NOT care about people. You care about YOU and your bottom line and YOUR income...you are the one who only cares about yourself. Please stop with the insincere claims that you care about everyone.
The simple fact is that the current law stifles FAIR competition. Period. If you look at other states, the small liquor stores DID NOT go out of business just because the grocery chains started to sell liquor -- even in the states where they sell ALL liquor.
You need to deal with the fact that consumers will not tolerate subsidizing your business much longer. Reappealing the remaining Blue Law WILL be on the ballot soon for voters to decide AND, I promise, it will pass.
April 16, 2008
6:17 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Bagel, I had to step away. I appreciate your comments, and yes your right, you didn't convince me. I respect your opinion. We all have a choice, we make them everyday. I get up every morning at 2 AM, drink a 40 ouncer and pump iron. I still set aside one day to honor God. It's legal now, enjoy. Charles_B, what an eloquent insult, as far as the prize I'll pass on the ass candy, thanks anyway.
April 17, 2008
9:50 a.m.
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sam80241 writes:
JB
have you bought your wine yet you cheeeeepo