Has smoking ban hurt casinos?
Many think recent downturn in Colorado may stem from weather, gas prices, economy
By Joanne Kelley, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published April 2, 2008 at 12:05 a.m.
Have you stopped frequenting Colorado's casinos since the smoking ban took effect Jan. 1?
Photo by George Kochaniec Jr. / The Rocky
Slot attendant Elvinna Herman places a hold sticker Monday on a machine for a patron who left to go to the smoking patio at Ameristar Casino in Black Hawk.
Photo by George Kochaniec Jr. / The Rocky
James Comstock lights up Monday on the smoking patio at Ameristar Casino in Black Hawk. "I smoke 10 times less here now because of the smoking ban," Comstock said. That ban was extended to casinos in Colorado on Jan. 1.
The haze has yet to clear on whether a 3-month-old smoking ban is responsible for declining fortunes at the casinos in Colorado's three gaming towns.
Since the state extended an indoor smoking ban to its 40 casinos on Jan. 1, the gambling industry has reported a drop in business here and in the other gaming towns of Central City and Cripple Creek. But casino-goers and operators alike point to a variety of additional reasons for the downturn.
"We've had an impact from the smoking ban, but we know it's not just smoking," said Heather Leigh, spokeswoman for the Ameristar Casino in Black Hawk. "We know part of it is weather. We are 40 minutes from Denver, so it could be gas prices. And people have been talking about recession."
February statistics show casino revenue dropping to $57.9 million, down 10.1 percent compared with the same month last year. In January, proceeds fell to $56.7 million, off 3.6 percent from a year ago.
On a visit to Black Hawk last week, Colleen O'Hara took a break from playing the slot machines to light up on Ameristar's front patio.
"It's not going to prevent me from coming here, but I don't come as much as I used to," she said.
But the price of gas has been as much of a factor as anything else.
O'Hara said she burns though half a tank of gas on the trip from Littleton to Black Hawk. "That's $30 out of my pocket just to get here."
Just up the road in Central City, a silver-haired woman hooked up to an oxygen tank puffed on a cigarette as she sat on a bench on Main Street.
The casino towns have made it easier for smokers to step outside by passing local ordinances that require smokers to be only an inch away from a casino entrance instead of the 15 feet the state law requires.
But smokers also acknowledge that when they're outside smoking, they're not pumping money into the slots.
"The simple fact is . . . you have to leave the machine to have a cigarette," said Ameristar's Leigh.
Not surprisingly, nonsmokers have no regrets about the change. "The smoke was so thick you could cut it with a knife," said Linda Moore, who lives in Grand Junction and likes to visit the casinos in Black Hawk about once a month.
"If the casinos are upset, tell 'em to chill out. I quit coming here because I couldn't take it. Now I'm back because the smoke is gone."
In other markets across the nation, some casinos have reported declines in recent months as consumers cut back on some of their discretionary spending:
* In Nevada, home to the Las Vegas strip and other towns with far more gambling attractions than Colorado, business has suffered. Total revenues for Nevada's casinos fell almost 5 percent in January to $1.064 billion, according to the state's gaming division.
* New Jersey and Illinois also reported significant declines in the same month compared with a year ago, according to data collected by the American Gaming Association.
Colorado gaming regulators estimate it could take several months to determine the initial impact of the smoking ban. "It's difficult to quantify right now," said Don Burmania of the Colorado Division of Gaming. "It will take about six months (of data) to get a fair assessment."
Experts say it could take far longer.
Lexington, Ky.-based consultant Richard Thalheimer pored over several years of statistics to determine that prohibiting smoking in Delaware had been a blow to the "racinos" there.
"You have to adjust for all those factors and look at data over a long period of time," said Thalheimer, who specializes in the economics of the racing and gaming industry.
Even the Federal Reserve has joined the debate on the potential impact.
"Economic effects of smoke-free laws may be difficult to identify and interpret, but analysis suggests that at least some businesses do suffer costs," according to an article published in January by the St. Louis Fed.
For proponents of the ban, the biggest effect seems obvious.
"The impact has been that the casinos' employees have benefited tremendously by being able to go to work and not having to breathe secondhand smoke," said Stephanie Steinberg of Smoke-Free Gaming of Colorado, the grass-roots group that lobbied to extend the ban to casinos.
kelleyj@RockyMountainNews.com or 303-954-5068
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April 2, 2008
1:29 a.m.
Suggest removal
SmokeFreeGamingOfColorado writes:
NOTE: The argument that when a person steps outside to smoke and he is not gambling also applies when a person steps away to use the restroom, leaves to eat lunch or dinner in the restaurant or moves to a quieter location to take or place a cell phone call.
April 2, 2008
2:12 a.m.
Suggest removal
clyde writes:
A word of warning for the anti-smoking Nazis...
If a bunch of whiners can abridge the rights of the majority, it's only a matter of time before your ox gets gored. You may think you have won for the moment, but in the long run you have abridged the freedoms of everyone. If you don't like smoke, stay away. Otherwise, start your own smoke-free casinos, and see how they fare.
These do-gooder, control a$$holes, have fouled their own litterbox. I will personally spearhead a ban on whatever you find pleasurable. If you can't leaves others be, then you have become a target. Enjoy your war. You asked for it.
April 2, 2008
3:18 a.m.
Suggest removal
jmfslots writes:
The reported loss in revenue is only the tip of the iceberg. Not being seen are the Month to Month increases we have seen for years.
April 2, 2008
4:40 a.m.
Suggest removal
Pagen writes:
The gas prices and bad economy was here last year but yet the casinos enjoyed profits. The difference here is the smoking ban. And as far as "what's the difference between leaving your machine and going to eat or the bathroom?" Well you only go eat once usually at the casinos and the bathroom isn't every 1/2 hr or so. You are going to leave your machines a lot more times to smoke. After a while you aren't going to go back. This will show that it is the smoking ban. As far as the weather, I believe when the weather gets better so will the increase mainly because you won't have to go out side and freeze so you might go up more. But you still will get sick of going out side every time so you probably still won't go as much.
One more thing, when some of the smaller casinos go out of business, and they will, they can thank that witch Stephanie and her cronies and I hope it comes back on them 10 fold!!
April 2, 2008
5:36 a.m.
Suggest removal
generalsn1234567 writes:
Many Illinois casino workers no longer have to breathe SHS. Illinois casinos are laying off workers and cancelling expansion plans. Gamblers are just going across the river. If a casino across the river wants to expand, they can easly move an Illinois floating casino across the river. Chicago has one Indiana casino less than a half mile from its city limit, with several more minutes away. Colorado casinos are fortunate being far from the state line, as Colorado gamblers have NO CHOICE.
April 2, 2008
5:52 a.m.
Suggest removal
generalsn1234567 writes:
Once the weather turns nicer, people will be enjoying it for longer periods of time. The outside facilities will have to be as uninviting (no seating or sunshade) as possible to keep people returning inside to gamble, which will probasbly discourage them from returning. The only other solution is weather resistant machines, which I'm sure those who don't like seeing people enjoy anything will scream about.
April 2, 2008
6:54 a.m.
Suggest removal
dilligaf writes:
Thanks a lot Rocky. Just when it seemed the addict whining smokers were starting to except they can't puff their cancer sticks around people that care about their health you have to open the jar and let them back out. Oh and by the way Clyde you had better research before you put your foot in your mouth smokers are not in the majority. By a long shot.
April 2, 2008
7 a.m.
Suggest removal
DahmersCookbook writes:
Smoke Nazi (First post), Pagen is right. Once someone gets up to smoke they will be up from the machine for longer.
NOTE: Smoke Nazi is A blind self-serving jack@$$.
April 2, 2008
7:02 a.m.
Suggest removal
Jimminy writes:
Oh,this IS choice indeed.Anyone else remember the antis solemnly assuring us all that the smoking ban would increase business in the venues so impacted? Smoke-Free Colorado said nothing whatever about the impact that winter weather,or gas prices might have on casino revenue.Nope.They told us that what has taken place would not happen,but we're now being told that high gas prices and winter weather are to blame.Does anyone else remember high gas prices and winter weather in previous years? In the words of a now-deceased well known wife-batterer "See how they run,like pigs from a gun".
April 2, 2008
7:14 a.m.
Suggest removal
Jimminy writes:
And just to keep the antis honest,we should all make a mental note that the smoking ban is here to stay-for the present,anyway.Smoking was redefined from a rights issue to a health issue.Abortion is next on the list for re-definition as a health issue.Get some earplugs,folks,'cause there will then be some serious squealing.
April 2, 2008
7:30 a.m.
Suggest removal
Spencer writes:
Don't gamble, dont' smoke, don't care.
April 2, 2008
7:37 a.m.
Suggest removal
p_myers661 writes:
I foresee a ballot initiative exempting casinos and mom and pop bars in the near future. The nazis will scream and pound the ground, but there will be a choice of having a job and being around smoke or avoiding smoke and being unemployed. Right now a lot of bars are closed and some casinos will go out of business. There will be a substantial drop in tax revenue from the casinos. That will matter to the politicians who have a lot of votes to buy with that missing money. Get ready to exercise your right to vote. They will get ready to exercise (again) their right to lie and use false statistics supplied by junk science and downright fraudulent data selection.
What lies??? How about the predictions of increases in revenue for those businesses?
April 2, 2008
7:50 a.m.
Suggest removal
mojambo writes:
Why are the smokers so worried about casino revenue?
April 2, 2008
8:08 a.m.
Suggest removal
Ginger writes:
I think Jimminy lost me when he made a point of referring to John Lennon as a "well-known, deceased wife-batterer." What the heck does John Lennon have to do with a casino smoking ban?
April 2, 2008
8:23 a.m.
Suggest removal
mojambo writes:
So you've got it all figured out after 3 months?
Again, why are you so concerned about the revenues of casinos? And if they haven't screamed bloody murder about the ban, themselves deflecting to several other factors, then why are you?
April 2, 2008
8:29 a.m.
Suggest removal
MissSio writes:
If you are going to waste hundreds of dollars by shoving them into gambling machines, and complain about having to STOP WASTING it long enough to go GET CANCER, then more power to you. (maybe the casinos are telling you to try and save enough of your social security check to pay the rent this month.)
My personal thought on the matter is that as long as we can't light up over our beer, those gamblers shouldn't be able to light up over their "precious machines" either.
April 2, 2008
8:35 a.m.
Suggest removal
alcambell_9 writes:
When you don't defend the rights of others you invite the demise of your own. The Colorado Constitution, in cases of property rights impairment is unconstitutional. In Mill vs State department of Health,(1989) and JorgensonV City of Aurora, (1988) Both prohibt the government from claiming any sovereign Immunity in cases where the value or use of property has been damaged by the actions of government. Since the protection of property rights is a constitutional gurantee, the government must compensate for damages. The smoking ban impose by government has created neigborhood mom and pop the damages to the value their bars, taverns and casins and damaged the use of those properties. The legislature would do well with the taxpayers money to avoid being lible for damages by recinding the smoking ban, The losses so far Have been documented and exceed $30 million by DOR data. This smoking ban has destroyed not only the tax revenue from bars, taverns and casinos but also caused unemployment in a depreciating economy which increases the cost to the state for food stamps, aid to kids and wellfare. A law that does egreigious harm and is also unconstitutional should be erased from the law.
April 2, 2008
8:49 a.m.
Suggest removal
Fred writes:
Now you know the truth behind the proposed 5 dollar toll on I-70.
Pass sin taxes on the minority for “the kids”.
Ban activity in all public places.
Purchase of sin device decreases as freedoms erode.
New taxes that aren’t VOTED on replace lost revenue from “sin tax”.
Just wait until all highways are sold to private companies and we’re charged for using the roads we built and paid for. If the tax monies already collected for road maintenance hadn’t been methodically stolen for pet projects over the years we wouldn’t be in the predicament we’re in.
The shell game with out tax money HAS TO END.
The casino situation will only worsen the shell game. Where are they going to rob us next?
April 2, 2008
9:05 a.m.
Suggest removal
FU writes:
Smokers = lazy, smelly, dirty, out of shape, wrinkly, yellow teeth and bad breath having cancerbags.
Oh, and quit thowing your cig butts on the street! They don't just disappear.
April 2, 2008
9:10 a.m.
Suggest removal
dilligaf writes:
Can someone tell me how you don't have the right to smoke? You have the right to bare arms you just can't go walking into a bar with one and shooting. Can someone please tell me which bars here in Colorado that have gone out of business because of the ban? I keep hearing about all these bars that have closed but they don't say which ones. I know a lot of bars that are still doing fine. If there is bars that have closed chances are they were probably in trouble in the first place. A good business person can make adjustments in their business to adapt. It's called creativity. It's the American way. The law is here to stay. Live with it. And Colorado isn't the only one. There was a least 6 or 7 states that it was on their last ballot and everyone of them passed. Now I will admit this one should have gone to a vote but it didn't.
April 2, 2008
9:21 a.m.
Suggest removal
dilligaf writes:
FU:
My best friend quit 2 yrs ago and soon after he asked me "Did I smell that bad"? I had to be honest and say yes. They are addicts they don't know that they smell like a ashtray. And yes I agree those that have ashtrays in your cars use them. It's call littering Colorado isn't your own personnel ashtray.
April 2, 2008
9:24 a.m.
Suggest removal
American100 writes:
We went to the Riv for the first time since the ban. I love that cheap all you can eat crab leg buffett.
It was WONDERFUL not smelling all that gross smoke.
CLYDE- you said "If a bunch of whiners can abridge the rights of the majority, it's only a matter of time before your ox gets gored."
The majority gets screwed all the time in the US. Look at where we are with illegals, look at all the crap we have to listen to from every minority group out there, indians, gays (we need to tolerate or else) etc.
April 2, 2008
9:36 a.m.
Suggest removal
hdfresh writes:
Let me guess FU, you don't like smokers do you?
April 2, 2008
9:41 a.m.
Suggest removal
wow writes:
The casinos are losing revenue?? Really??
Told-ya-so.
This is what happens when Government is invited to poke its incompetant fingers in private business. Duh.
When there is an issue that the market can solve by creating alternatives for consumers, the market should be expected to do so. Legislation of this type is not only the lazy way out, but it hurts us all by removing choices.
There is still one "cigar bar" up the hill, as far as I know. That mom and pop casino ought to be going gang busters right about now.
Hope darlin Steffie is happy about all the healthy unemployed folks she helped.
April 2, 2008
9:45 a.m.
Suggest removal
mojambo writes:
so what caused the Vegas casinos to see an over 5% drop?
April 2, 2008
9:46 a.m.
Suggest removal
kathyM writes:
I can't poison myself AND throw my money away at the same time! Boo Hoo! I'm telling Mom!
April 2, 2008
9:49 a.m.
Suggest removal
Elwood writes:
bhaney01,
I beg to differ with you on how the smoke breaks decrease money gambled.
My wife plays two machines at a time, maximum bet, and she can get 3-4 pulls in a minute. Thats $3 x 3 pulls/min. x 2 machines. That equates to $18/min.
Now if she goes outside to take a smoke break for 5 minutes that is $90 the casino has lost out on. And no, we don't stay until the money is gone, but we leave after a certain amount of time. It is easy to see how the casinos are losing money on the smoking ban.
April 2, 2008
10:07 a.m.
Suggest removal
TheDenverB writes:
"My wife plays two machines at a time, maximum bet, and she can get 3-4 pulls in a minute. Thats $3 x 3 pulls/min. x 2 machines. That equates to $18/min.
Now if she goes outside to take a smoke break for 5 minutes that is $90 the casino has lost out on."
or $90 of your money your wife didn't blow.
April 2, 2008
10:10 a.m.
Suggest removal
McGowdog writes:
I don't know if the casinos are going to continue to thrive or not. Should they? Is that a good thing? Is watching little poor old ladies spend their hard earned retirement stash, inheritance, or God-forbid-Social Security- with the hopes of actually coming out ahead a good thing?
I mean, thank GOD gambling is there right? It all goes to the people of the State of Colorado right? Look at our wonderful roads! Look at our 319.00/gallon of 85 octane petro. Look at our 409.00/gallon for #2 Diesel (the fuel that brings you your roll of toilet paper).
Gambling is good for the State of Colorado. Right! It's just another TAX!!!!!!!!! Gambling is a SIN!!!!!!!!!! God I Love SIN!!!!!! So is smoking. So is drinking-if you do it right.
We were out in Cripple Creek about a month ago, sinning and having fun. It was cold and snowing a bit and windy as hell and I saw the smokers having to go outside and stand by these propane lamps. Some in the back towards the parking garages where covered with plexiglass. The poor folks looked like those rotisserie chickens.
You know, what compells someone to sit down in a chair and -you used to dump a quarter into the thing and pull a handle. Now you slip your credit card into the thing-or the 20.00 bill, or the piece of paper with 8.10 left on it, and watch it get down to $0.10.
Don't tell me you are a real gambler. You play Let It Ride or Omaha, or BlackJack, or Craps, or some other game of chance. The majority of casinos get their cash from the machines. And when you're sitting at the machine, it's nice to have a smoke and a drink. This is what these folk do during their breaks anyway.
The way the HVACs were set up, you rarely noticed the smoke in a casino anyway. Unless you were sitting next to a smoker and the smoke drifted right into you. I go camping a lot. And when I get home, take a shower and change my clothes-I notice that my camping clothes reek of smoke. Campfire smoke, but smoke nontheless.
If the casinos don't make their huge chunks of our cash, the BIG F&*%ING WAA!!!!!!!! I hope they fold.
You've heard people joke about "I did so bad up there last time, I think I'll just mail them the check". Why don't you just do that, and call it the State Tax Fund. I'm sure you'll get your moneys worth. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Thank you for smoking!
April 2, 2008
10:11 a.m.
Suggest removal
temurlan writes:
Does anybody care if the casino's profits are down? WAAAA!
Anyway, I smoke and I like the clean indoor air.
April 2, 2008
10:19 a.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
Mojambo is right; his point is that it doesn't matter if casino revenues are down. Either SHS is an unacceptable health hazard, or it isn't.
As for the reference to John Lennon as a wife batterer, if this had to do with Yoko Ono, then I think some kind of special dispensation may be merited.
April 2, 2008
10:29 a.m.
Suggest removal
dilligaf writes:
temurlan:
You sound like a considerate person not only for others but yourself. Thank you
April 2, 2008
10:52 a.m.
Suggest removal
Classof80 writes:
Listen to all the smokers whine and bitch about how they cant spend money fast enough to keep the casinos going.. I was at the Ameristar last Saturday and couldn't even find a parking spot so did give me this BS of how the smoking ban has hurt the casinos. NOT BUYING IT !!!!
And to those smokers who complain about the non smokers taking away their right. What about that in reverse as I have a right to enjoy the same thing and not smell of smoke !!!
April 2, 2008
11:03 a.m.
Suggest removal
CWW writes:
My (smoking) friends and I have to wait for the weather to get better so we can sit on the patio. We haven't spent money in a bar/restaurant all winter . . . .
April 2, 2008
11:06 a.m.
Suggest removal
dilligaf writes:
Classof80:
But the addicts will tell you to stay home if you don't like it. We are suppose to have the world stop so we can get off. We are not allowed to go out and enjoy ourselves. They have rights you know.
April 2, 2008
11:14 a.m.
Suggest removal
mmercier writes:
Smoking ban or not, what it comes down to is—consideration. A non-smoker can walk into any establishment, casino, bar, restaurant and not affect any other patron of the establishment. But a smoker walks into any establishment and lights up—that person affects everyone there. The smokers second hand smoke doesn’t just stay with the smoker…it goes everywhere. So this smoker has just now shared their habit with everyone. Now isn’t that forcing everyone to be a part of your addiction?
Why do smokers think it is okay to force everyone around them to partake in their habit of smoking? Their answer is if you don’t like it leave. Well once again, because the smoker feels their right to smoke is more important than a non-smokers right to clean air; we are supposed to just give in and leave. No way!
Just because you choose to smoke does not give you the right to force me to do the same. When are smokers going to realize that their gross habit affects everyone around them? If your smoke was kept to yourself it wouldn’t be an issue. But, it does not just stay with the smoker…it goes everywhere! You smokers can defend your right to smoke all you want, but it comes down to the fact that, as long as you are exhaling second hand smoke—it is going to bother someone else.
April 2, 2008
11:20 a.m.
Suggest removal
wow writes:
I have a hard time believing that some of you still don't see the problem with the Government stepping in to save you from "sinners".
If you don't like the way a business operates, be a consumer and make a choice...any choice as long as it belongs to you. Tell the owner how you feel. Speak up with your money. Open a business of your own, and get the same benefits of ownership that your peers have, (had). Involving Government was a lazy, and low, response to a problem that should have been solved by individual owners in the best interest of thier customers and employees. Special interest groups, Anti and Pro, are controlling you, even if you happen to agree with them now and then.
And Double Chubby Chuck--Keep your head down...they'll have your cheesburgers next, mark my words.
April 2, 2008
11:47 a.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
I don't like the government interfering with my right to have a beer or two while I'm riding in a car either. I'm not hurting anyone. If by chance some drunken driver does cause harm to someone else, let him/her pay the price, whether criminally, civilly or both, not the rest of us. We're just having a beer.
April 2, 2008
11:48 a.m.
Suggest removal
springfever writes:
Oh you poor smokers. Casinos losing revenue, what about people losing their life because of cigarettes and contributing to trashing our country with cigarette butts on the streets. Keep America Clean! Try the nicorette gum, it works. Guarantee!!!
April 2, 2008
11:57 a.m.
Suggest removal
KJindahouse writes:
Smokers quit your bickering. You're the very reason why I don't go to the casinos. I know that you would be the first ones complaining if someone went to the casinos without deorderant and emitted fowl stench. It's public decency! It's exercising some damn self-control. You quit your whinning...
April 2, 2008
12:55 p.m.
Suggest removal
Contempt_for_Texas writes:
Most of the people that go to those casinos are the people with the least to lose. They also have the least money for cigarettes. It is a win-win for them, even if they don't see it that way. I don't think legislating it is right, but the patrons are the real winner regardless.
April 2, 2008
1:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
Jimminy writes:
Ginger and Davies-looks like I was being a little too subtle with the Lennon quote,although congratulations on figuring out who I was referencing,because I mentioned no names.Okay,here's the point:the Left can confer sainthood on the worst kind of people as long as they say something that sounds good.Thus heroin-snorting 2 pack-a-day woman-punching John Lennon is adored by the non-smoking non-violent non-thinking non-bathing hippies of yesterday and today,one of whom opines on this thread that Yoko Ono(a woman)deserves a beating,for reasons not specified.
I do agree that Lennon could be depended upon to come up with some pretty good bons mots,one of which was "see how they run,like pigs from a gun".Which describes exactly the behavior of the antismokers-and the Rocky-at being caught in a lie.Again.
FU-So you don't like cigarette butts thrown from cars,do you.Next time I throw one I'll be thinking of your forum name.
April 2, 2008
2:13 p.m.
Suggest removal
mytwosense writes:
Advocates for outlawing smoking in hospitality businesses have long claimed that outlawing smoking will actually bring more business to bars, restaurants, casinos, etc. Not only have I see no evidence of this, it seems to be panning out the opposite.
I've talked to several wait staff and business owners at various establishments, and they all say the smoking ban really hit their business hard.
So now these people are making far less tips and less profits overall.
April 2, 2008
2:48 p.m.
Suggest removal
generalsn1234567 writes:
The way Illinois bars near the state line are keeping customers is by just ignoring the ban. The police and inspectors who would "report" (antis love that word LOL) the places have been going to these places after work for many years, including a few retired powerful Chicago politians. The places that are similar to "Cheers" where everyone knows your name are having no problems for 3 months now. The new customers who went to the smoke free bars can be counted on one hand and they were just passing through. I wonder where they all are. The big places downtown are kinda stuck. Now the diesel fumes are much more prevalent when the wind is right at the bars at Union Station. I think they shut down some of the ventilation systems downtown. With so many casino customers going across the river and borders, I don't see this experiment in Illinois as lasting too much longer.
April 2, 2008
3:26 p.m.
Suggest removal
esarem writes:
I recently went gambling for the first time since the smoking ban was put in place. The weird part; hurrying to get inside to get a breath of fresh air. You know what I'm talking about. The real problem with Colorado Casinos; the rediculous low stakes law makes Black Jack & Poker stupid and Craps imposible. If it has to be capped, at least make it $50 or $100 so there can be actual gaming.
April 2, 2008
4:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
MGD writes:
I don't agree with Government telling business owners they cannot allow smoking. Those property rights went out the window.
Speaking of out the window, I tend to "return" lost items to people including cigs dropped out of car windows. Yes, I'm that guy on the bike who returned your lost butt. If I've returned one to you recently, please sound off! I love the look of surprise on your face when that butt comes right back at you!
Seriously, when non-smokers have to walk through a bunch of cigarette butts it just makes us think of smokers as dirty, nasty people. Why should we care about your right to smoke when you care so little about our right to a clean sidewalk or fresh air?
April 2, 2008
4:26 p.m.
Suggest removal
snowsurfer writes:
Smoking kills and is a drain on life.
April 2, 2008
7:55 p.m.
Suggest removal
wow writes:
Old age kills and is a drain on life.
No elderly are allowed in my establishment.
There ya go, then.
April 2, 2008
8:01 p.m.
Suggest removal
wow writes:
MGD-
I agree with you 100%, no argument here. We have laws prohibiting littering, and fines imposed on those who voilate them. Cops can't be every where at all times, of course.
Smokers are not in general dirty nasty people. People who litter are. A chewed piece of gum on the sidewalk is no more lovely than a butt, and takes longer to disappear. All people caught littering even a little bit should be flogged.
April 2, 2008
8:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
Brain writes:
This smoking ban isn't about smokers; its about property rights.
wow is spot on!
April 2, 2008
8:25 p.m.
Suggest removal
Jimminy writes:
MGD-SUVs 1,cyclists 0.But seriously,folks,a little backing off on the hatred of smokers might elicit a little help with your litter problem.Heck,it might even lead towards making the roads safer for activist cyclists.
April 2, 2008
9:22 p.m.
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wow writes:
I paint little cyclists on my Escort door.
Just kidding. I love the little spandex clad rumps, just pedaling like mad, running lights and holding up traffic while they choke on my exhaust in an effort to live healthier. And my cyclist stencil broke ;)
April 2, 2008
9:54 p.m.
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JLVON writes:
It's not the smoking ban. It's the rights of small business. Read the constitution. Particularly the 1st., the 4th., and the 14th. amendments. All of which were written in bars and taverns full of smoke and ale.
For the individual who has seen no bars closed. See the owners of Cyndi's Lounge, Brewski's, Billy's Inn who was in business for forty years in the same family at the same location. Tell them they are poor businessmen to stupid to adapt. Go to stopthebans.com and see the full list of closers. All of whom were to stupid to adapt.
OSHA the watch dog for the employee and the work place enviorment did a seven year study and found no harmfull contaminates in second hand smoke. And won their case in court by the way.
No one cares until it's their rights that are being taken away. How could small businesses fight the Robert Woods Johnson Foundation.
That was the special interest group who funded the ban to the tune of 3.5 million dollars in Colorado alone in one year. In case you didn't know they are going after fat people now.
Hitler started the same way. First alcohol then tobacco. We know how that turned out.
Then there is the taxes. We tax the hell out of tobacco for childrens health care, then ban it. You should smoke more, it's for your kid's.
April 3, 2008
8:25 a.m.
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MGD writes:
WOW is correct, on an historical average people over 80 years old have a predicted death rate of 100%. That hasn't changed in human history. I think the overall death rate is very close to 100% as well.
Jimminy, I sort of doubt that smokers litter in response to the anti-smokers out there. I feel many smokers just don't care. Unfortunately, all it takes is maybe 5% of smokers to leave their butts everywhere to make a big mess. It's probably the same 5% who toss their butts as they walk in a building and then let out a long, slow, Marlboro Man exhale.
I think that if smokers were more cognizant of their actions there would be much less disgust by others. I don't smoke, can't stand the smell and think it's a waste of resources. I still don't think the Government had the right to tell bar owners they couldn't allow smoking. I just couldn't muster the energy to fight the ban though since I'm sick of inconsiderate smokers.
The same goes for bicyclists. Those guys that run lights are the ones you notice even theough they are in the minority. Although many of them will tell you that they have to skirt the rules to stay seen and not get imprinted on the front or side of your Escort. You only notice polite cyclists if they are entertaining you with their spandex clad backsides.....
April 4, 2008
12:21 a.m.
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Jimminy writes:
Well,I don't doubt that many a smoker just kinda smiles inwardly at leaving a little symbolic salute to the antis.In any event,the antismoking folks have set a precedent...In these parts,it's now been established that community health has higher priority than individual rights.That precedent will soon be used to outlaw abortion,since an abortion victim's health is so compromised that he or she always dies.
April 6, 2008
2:06 p.m.
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WJ229 writes:
I never minded smokers in casinos or bars (and I quit over 20 years ago)The reason I stopped going to Colorado casinos years ago is the $5 limit and lack of games. If Colorado is worried about casino revenues, then get rid of the $5 limit allow more games like craps and sports betting and stay open 24 hours. Until then,
I'll save up and go to Las Vegas every other year. The smokers will not bother me there either.
April 13, 2008
7:37 p.m.
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bethehorse writes:
Why isn't casino revenue up if it is smoke free? If non smokers are the majority and they got their way, why aren't they going to the casinos more often? They say they don't go because of the smoke. What is the excuse now? Let's hear from the smoke nazis now.
April 16, 2008
11:42 a.m.
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generalsn1234567 writes:
After 3 months, a lot of my local small bars in Illinois so got tired of waiting for all the new non smoking customers who were supposed to "flock" to the smoke free bars, that they now ignore the ban. So far, only one Illinois bar in a rural area got raided by local police for smoking. It's quicly becoming a joke in Chicago. Bar raids are usually grandstanding, so the news media is always present.
May 13, 2008
2:34 p.m.
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BMat writes:
A word of warning for the anti-smoking Nazis...
If a bunch of whiners can abridge the rights of the majority, it's only a matter of time before your ox gets gored. You may think you have won for the moment, but in the long run you have abridged the freedoms of everyone. If you don't like smoke, stay away. Otherwise, start your own smoke-free casinos, and see how they fare.
These do-gooder, control a$$holes, have fouled their own litterbox. I will personally spearhead a ban on whatever you find pleasurable. If you can't leaves others be, then you have become a target. Enjoy your war. You asked for it.
_______________
So when did smokers become the majority? And why is it that I have to smoke just b/c you do? I don't care if you sit next to me using heroin - at least you won't get any on me.
Why does the majority have to suffer your death cloud? Why don't we just get together and change the law? Ohhh, that's right we did! Damn this democracy!
November 8, 2008
7:18 p.m.
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Deew writes:
The wife and I used to go to Black Hawk every weekend before the ban. Now we go once a month.
Not only have we cut back on going to the casinos but we have cut back going out all together due to the smoking ban. We have cut back going out to eat from once a week to once every three months, and from going to our local bars from twice a month to once every 6 months.