'I will never surrender in Iraq,' McCain tells crowd at DU
By Alan Gathright, Rocky Mountain News (Contact), David Montero, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published May 27, 2008 at 7:48 a.m.
Updated May 27, 2008 at 3:09 p.m.
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Photo by Barry Gutierrez © The Rocky
Sen. John McCain delivers a speech at the Cable Center on the University of Denver campus today.
Photo by Alan Gathright, The Rocky
Adam Goetz brought girlfriend Sabrina Misenar to hear McCain.
Photo by Alan Gathright, The Rocky
Iraq vet. Garett Reppenhagen holds up banner he unfurled during McCain speech.
Photo by Barry Gutierrez © The Rocky
People take their seats next to the stage where Sen. John McCain was about to speak at the Cable Center on the University of Denver campus today.
Photo by Alan Gathright, The Rocky
Candy Lewis, of Denver, waves a Hillary Clinton sign. Peter Calabria, of Albany, NY, also backs Clinton.
Photo by Barry Gutierrez © The Rocky
The scene outside the Cable Center as people arrive to listen to Sen. John McCain speak today on the DU campus.
Photo by Barry Gutierrez © The Rocky
People arrive to listen to Sen. John McCain speak at the Cable Center on the University of Denver campus today.
Photo by Alan Gathright, The Rocky
Eva Henry, mother of U.S. soldier, protests McCain appearance.
Photo by Alan Gathright, The Rocky
McCain supporters Sue Sharkey, left, of Windsor, and Gayle Richey, of Fort Collins.
Within 10 minutes of Sen. John McCain’s speech on foreign policy at the University of Denver he was interrupted by several protesters four separate times –- each chanting “end this war” repeatedly until they were removed.
The crowd quickly drowned them out by chanting “John McCain. John McCain, John McCain.”
McCain responded each time, drawing a standing ovation when he said, “By the way, I will never surrender in Iraq. Our American troops will come home with victory and with honor.”
The Republican nominee for president also chastised the protesters, telling them that they are interfering with others’ rights to free speech.
His speech was heavy on the issue of nuclear weapons –- even joking at one point that he’d like to “get back to Jack Kennedy for a second” after a protester chanted while he was quoting the Democrat President about the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
McCain’s visit to Colorado – his third this year – is a sign that the senator sees the state and its nine electoral votes as key to winning the general election in November. He is also attending a fundraiser in Aurora later to try and get some financial traction in a state that he lost badly to Mitt Romney in the February caucus.
About 400 were gathered at the Cable Center to listen to McCain’s views on opening up talks with China on nuclear proliferation and worries about nations like North Korea, Syria and Iran.
“President Ahmadinejad has threatened to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and represents a threat to every country in the region,” McCain said. “One we cannot ignore or minimize.”
The speech also called on the global community to fight nuclear proliferation while using civilian nuclear power to reduce dependence on foreign oil.
“I would support international guarantees of nuclear fuel supply to countries that renounce enrichment and reprocessing, as well as the establishment of multinational nuclear enrichment centers in which they can participate,” he said. “Nations that seek nuclear fuel for legitimate civilian purposes will be able to acquire what they need under international supervision.”
McCain’s visit highlights the fight for the West this election. His likely rival for the presidency, Sen. Barack Obama, will be in Thornton Wednesday for a town hall meeting and both were in New Mexico for Memorial Day.
But McCain has a fight on his hands for the largest voting bloc in Colorado – independent voters like Mike Coulter.
The retired U.S. Navy petty officer stood outside the Cable Center in a drizzle and could barely stymie his outrage over McCain’s failure to support a Democratic plan for expanding educational benefits under the GI Bill. McCain is supporting a less-costly alternative.
The 55-year-old retired air traffic controller said he served during the Vietnam War and was a beneficiary of the GI Bill.
“I grew up poor in Detroit and there was no way I could afford college,” Coulter said. “Without it, I probably would be working a factory job that no longer exists.”
Coulter is the kind of voter McCain will need to capture in November, however :a registered independent who voted for George Bush Sr. and voted for John Kerry in 2004.
The speech drew some of Colorado’s big-name Republicans -– including Bob Schaffer, candidate for U.S. Senate and former congressman Bob Beauprez.
Colorado Democratic Chair Pat Waak is expected to offer a rebuttal to McCain’s visit shortly.
--David Montero
-----
The Rocky's Alan Gathright and John Boogert were blogging live before, during and after McCain's appearance at DU. Here are their dispatches as they were filed:
11:45 a.m. Stephen Sanko, 29, a new CU medical school graduate, got up early on his vacation to hear McCain speak.
"I've always told myself that if John McCain ran for president, I'd support him," said Sanko.
"I was impressed," Sanko said, with McCain's call for global nuclear disarmament and boosting international funding to halt the spread of nuclear weaponry.
"I thought his message was very optimistic," he added.
Sanko is a young Republican seeking change.
"I come from a Republican family, " he said. "But I've had questions about previous Republican administrations, to be honest."
"I've always felt like McCain is the kind of gentleman who can reach across the aisle" to accomplish things, he added.
Sanko expressed disappointment with politicians from both parties, pointing to his growing debt from state tuition hikes and funding cuts for a community clinic for the homeless where he and fellow med students volunteered.
"This is a very exciting election year. I think there are a lot of young folks who are excited by other candidates," he said, "and I'll have my ears open as well."
11:30 a.m. A former Army sniper who served in Iraq expressed his disillusionment by unfurling an anti-war banner during McCain's speech.
"I felt I was sent to war on fraudulent causes," Garett Reppenhagen, 32, said after he was ushered out of the Cable Center.
"There weren't any weapons of mass destruction. There were no ties to 9/11," he said.
"While I was in Iraq, I just realized that the Iraqis viewed us not as a peacekeeping mission, but as as occupiers and invaders," said the ex-soldier, who served a year in the war zone between 2004 and 2005. "I think the occupation is hurting our national security."
He expressed frustration that both political parties are ignoring the people's will when it comes to ending the war and supporting troops who return home to poor health services at home.
"The majority of Americans want the troops out of that war," he said. "I think the Democrats and Republicans use veterans and soldiers to legitimize their campaigns."
"Even a veteran who's served honorably like John McCain...ranks very poorly on voting to help improve adequate benefits for veterans when the come home."
11:18 a.m. Adam Goetz brought his girlfriend, Sabrina Misenar, an undecided voter, to hear McCain. What did she think?
"I was actually impressed with him in the way he carries himself," said Misenar, 29, of Aurora.
She liked the way McCain handled protesters who unfurled antiwar banners during the speech.
She praised the senator for speaking up for the critics' right to free speech.
Misenar also respected McCain's stand that he won't support legislation he disagrees with -- even if it means taking a politically unpopular stance.
"We need that in a leader. Someone who is going to stand behind their decisions," she said. "He said once he makes a decision as far as sending troops somewhere, he's going to support them 100 percent.
"I'm not crazy about either of the other two candidates," she said, referring to Obama and Clinton. "Too much mudslinging going on."
Goetz, 26, said he's admired McCain's straight-talking reputation ever since he saw him speak during the 2000 campaign.
Goetz said McCain would make "a truthful president. He sticks to his guns."
10:39 a.m. After approximately 30 minutes, McCain concludes his speech and his shaking hands as he departs amid symphonic and marching band music. More sights, scenes and excerpts from his appearance to come shortly.
10:32 a.m. "The civilized nations of the world must act as one," in facing the threat of nuclear proliferation, McCain says.
10:27 a.m. McCain says he wants to work with Russia and China on arms and other issues.
10:24 a.m. "We must continue to deploy a safe and reliable nuclear deterrent. I will seek to reduce the size of our nuclear arsenal to the lowest possible number," McCain says.
10:22 a.m. "Many believe all we need to do to end the nuclear program of hostile governments" is to sit down and talk or use military action, McCain says. "While the use of force may be necessary, it can only be as a last resort." More protesters are escorted out. McCain supporters in the crowd are losing patience with the protesters, whose numbers are dwindling rapidly.
p>10:19 a.m. More protesters yell out anti-war slogans, and are dismissed. The crowd yells "sit down!" McCain again laughs off the disturbance, and declares, "I will never surrender in Iraq!"
10:17 a.m. Two more protesters, shouting "end this war," are escorted from the room, drowned out by the crowd's chants of "John McCain!" McCain laughs off the disturbance, says he's used to such behavior, and emphasizes America's freedom of speech. Then he returns to his speech.
10:15 a.m. "America must be a good citizen of the world, leading the way to address the issue of global warming," McCain says.
10:14 a.m. A protester with a large sign is escorted from the back of the room.
10:12 a.m. McCain takes stage and thanks the crowd for the warm welcome.
10:09 a.m. Former U.S. Sen. and CU President Hank Brown is introducing McCain. He touts McCain's independence. "Foreign policy is more important than partisanship," Brown says of McCain. "He fights for what he sees is right."
10:08 a.m. John McCain arrives outside the Cable Center in a black SUV about 10:03 a.m.. The crowd eagerly awaits inside. Trumpet music signals the program is about to begin. Dignitaries are being introduced. John McCain takes the stage to loud applause.
9:48 a.m. Ruth Calabria was handing out fliers declaring "Don't burn down Denver if Obama isn't nominated."
It was a reference to radio host Rush Limbaugh's controversial warning that contentious liberals might riot during the Democratic National Convention in Denver.
The Albany, N.Y., woman and her husband, Peter, said they were Obama supporters until they decided he was too wishy-washy to be an effective president.
"He's not tough enough to beat McCain," said Calabria, a peace activist who is staying in Denver through the August convention.
"He has not stuck to his guns," she said of Obama, adding that he can't make up his mind whether to wear an American flag lapel pin. "He just says what he thinks everyone wants to hear.
"I think Hillary has gone through the wringer, and she's tough enough and she'll be actually able to do something as president.
"We would be for McCain except for the war issue." she said.
9:20 a.m. Eva Henry, the mother of an Army soldier, donned a camouflage-green field jacket to protest McCain's appearance.
The Thornton mom said a McCain candidacy would be "another four years of Bush."
"I think we're going to continue to be in the war and continue to lose lives," said Henry, whose 28-year-old son, Maurice Henry, is an 11-year veteran who has not been deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan.
"The longer they're in the war, the greater the likelihood that my son will end up going," she added.
9:10 a.m. Sue Sharkey wanted to see John McCain so badly that she left her tornado-damaged town of Windsor at 6:15 a.m. to get to the DU campus.
While Sharkey said she originally supported Mitt Romney's candidacy, she added, "I believe in John McCain's integrity."
"I may not always agree with him, but I definitely trust him," she said.
Sharkey said she wanted to hear McCain speak on foreign policy first-hand.
"I certainly agree with his stand on the war in Iraq," she said.
Her friend, Gayle Richey, of Fort Collins, said McCain has the battle-tested foreign policy experience to be the commander in chief.
"That's the most important thing. If we don't have someone strong on that, then the rest of it doesn't matter," Richey said.
"I trust that he will keep us safe," she said.
Several other groups, ranging from veterans critical of McCain's stand on veterans issues to Hillary Clinton supporters, huddled on a brisk morning outside the Cable Center at DU.
Jim Hudson, leader of Colorado Veterans for America, said, "We respect McCain's service to the country, but we vehemently disagree with his fiscal conservatism, which is so extreme that he would not support his fellow veterans' health care needs."
Hudson said McCain voted against budget increases for veterans health care programs four times between 2004 and 2007.
"As our veterans return from Iraq with amputations, disfiguring burns and traumatic brain injuries, they need quality medical care," Hudson said.
7:48 a.m. Arizona Sen. John McCain, the likely GOP presidential nominee, is expected to address foreign policy issues during his 10 a.m. speech today at the Cable Center at the University of Denver.
The event is open to the public. Doors opened at 8 a.m. at the Cable Center, 2200 Buchtel Blvd.
Members of the left-leaning group Veterans for Progress are planning to protest outside Cable Center, demanding Sen. John McCain explain “his consistent votes against programs to help our country's veterans,” according to their press release.
They criticized McCain for skipping a vote to expand the GI Bill last week and said he has voted to cut veterans' health care funding at least 29 times, including 19 votes that came after the invasion of Iraq.
During a Memorial Day speech, McCain defended his opposition to the Democratic-sponsored GI bill, which passed overwhelmingly.
McCain said he was against the bill because it would give the same benefit to everyone regardless of how many times he or she has enlisted. He said he feared that would depress reenlistments by those wanting to attend college after only a few years in uniform, draining needed troops for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. McCain said the bill he favored would have increased scholarships based on length of service.
The GI bill debate has stoked intense clashes between McCain and Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic presidential hopeful.
Obama spent much of last week criticizing McCain over the college aid bill, part of a strategy to link the Republican -- who favors staying the course in Iraq -- to the Bush administration.
Obama told veterans while campaigning in Puerto Rico on Saturday: "I don't understand why John McCain would side with George Bush and oppose our plan to make college more affordable for our veterans. George Bush and John McCain may think our plan is too generous. I could not disagree more."
McCain fired back Monday: "I take a back seat to no one in my affection, respect and devotion to veterans."
Obama comes to Denver Wednesday to hold a town-hall meeting at the Mapleton Expeditionary School of the Arts, 8990 York St., Thornton. The event is by invitation only.
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May 27, 2008
8:36 a.m.
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DenverDan writes:
Say no to Bush 3.
May 27, 2008
8:57 a.m.
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dakar writes:
McCain has been one of Bush's biggest rivals in the past 8 years. The difference between McCain and Obama is that McCain has actually accomplished a lot in his career and Obama hasn't done squat.
As far a 100 years, the US has bases in Germany, Japan and S.Korea for the past 60 years or so. Would you call those 60 year wars?
May 27, 2008
9:03 a.m.
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Nugget writes:
Now that F. Castro along with Hamas has basically endored Obama, I hope that the citizens of the Western United States are not deceived by Obama. If so, watch out folks, you may get what you wish for.
May 27, 2008
9:25 a.m.
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gr8fun4me writes:
Who cares! I wouldn't vote for any Republicans this year because they have screwed up the whole country! They have lost their way of what the party used to stand for. It used to be less government, less taxes. Now it is more government and more taxes. Taxes are hidden in the huge deficit that they have run up.
May 27, 2008
9:36 a.m.
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HOOK writes:
gr8fun4me, so are you saying you are voting dem? If so, tell me how "O" or HILL are going to change anything, or are we supposed to just "believe" in the magic of "O"? Both the dems and repubs have "screwed up the whole country!" If your going to assign blame, at least face the reality, they both stink. I hope your not going to feed me a line of the same old trash about how the big "O" is the next great coming of you know how, I cant say the name anymore because its probably illegal or considered profane. I really look forward to just how much more expensive, oooops, I mean "greater it’s going to be when "O" sets up shop.
May 27, 2008
9:51 a.m.
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HOOK writes:
Ok freethought, or lack there of, did I say I like Bush or Mcwhat??? Ahhh no I didn’t numb-brainwashed, I said they all stink, why not think before your freethought gets to your fingertips! Your name and the crap you write seem to contradict one another, oxymoron!
May 27, 2008
10:03 a.m.
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HOOK writes:
Oh, and nosofreethought when it applies to other than self entitled elitists like yourself, I sure would like to know how the great "O", breath of fresh air he is and all is going to change anything. Or are you just going to spew out the same old brainwashed nonsense and just expect me to believe in the magic? You say the last 8 years have been an embarrassment, how about the last 16 years, or is your one-way thought memory foggy for that far back to remember.
May 27, 2008
10:12 a.m.
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logical1 writes:
freethought, why don't you so some research before you minimize McCain's vietnam experience. He spent 5 1/2 years in captivity, with multiple offers to be released because of his father's status as a US Admiral, but refused to be let go until all POW's captured before him were released first. He withstood severe beatings, torture, etc, and you have the gall to make light of his heroics: "How does one becoming captured by the enemy account for one being a hero?"
You don't have to like his politics, but questioning his character and patriotism seems a little ridiculous.
May 27, 2008
10:26 a.m.
Suggest removal
HOOK writes:
Remember before the WAR? Corruption? Lying? Deceit? Dishonesty? Unethical practices and toe-tapping?
No, I don’t, because it has usually been that way, with a few exceptions. You are implying that this has all been only since George Shrub has been in office, where have you been???
And no, I am not trying to hurt your feelings, but I will not tolerate the line of junk you trying to feed me either, guess I am not supposed to have my own "freethought" in your socialist free speech only applies to you world (just an observation).
May 27, 2008
10:51 a.m.
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HOOK writes:
Yeah right, you keep telling yourself that Big_D, we can talk about it at in the food line when it all falls apart! Wow you are so humorous; looks like you missed your chance at a career as a comedian!
May 27, 2008
11:13 a.m.
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HOOK writes:
Froward69, you gotta be kidding me, are you high? Or just ignorant? Where in here did I say anything in support of Mcwho? Why don’t you try reading above, or on other blogs and finding where I have supported Mcwhatever before you attack me. Obviously you just looked at the last few sentences before blowing off your rhetoric, and you are the one who's asking if I'm high? I am critical of both sides, if you would think before you type you might make better conclusions. What a, never mind, just do your homework before you come trying to furiously slam me next time, your really not making yourself look the common sense type.
May 27, 2008
11:16 a.m.
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Michael writes:
"So for the past thirty years any Democrat President has done a better job than any Republican President. And after Bush anybody stands a good chance of being better, except McCain." - Big_D
In the past 40 YEARS there have been only 2 Democrat Presidents; Carter and Clinton. I lived through both. Carter was an unmitigated disaster and ranks as one of the worst presidents of the 20th century. Clinton was OK. He could have done so much as he is one of the best "pure" politicians ever. Had he been able to control his personal demons and appetites he could have done great things. 12 years of Dems vs. 28 years of GOP control of the WH since 1968. Thank God for that. Even 12 years was TOO much.
May 27, 2008
11:18 a.m.
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HOOK writes:
Seriously, where in the &&*& did I say anything about considering McCain??? Where do come up with this junk Froward69? You really need help, why not try looking before you leap, go back to earning your underwater basket weaving degree.
May 27, 2008
11:28 a.m.
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Michael writes:
Hey freethought - Yes I do. I thank God for every GOP president since I have been an American, and the ones that came before. I have heard those idle threats before from the left - 68, 72, 80, 84, 88, 00, and 04. You lost each time. And all those times the guy you threw up was a flaming liberal, but Obama is even worse. But you keep going further to the left though. Gob bless ya for that!!!!
May 27, 2008
11:31 a.m.
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leatherneck writes:
I just heard that some of you Libs have already interupted McCain several times with your crying. It's great that you have the freedom of speech that our Military gives you. Except when you use it to infringe on the freedom of speech of others.
Please save the Crying for this Summer.
May 27, 2008
11:31 a.m.
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HOOK writes:
Where you at backazzwards69??? Stumbling all over yourself trying to recover from all of your mishaps. Here is a little suggestion; next time at least make an attempt to be accurate in your nonsense and it won’t take so long to recover!
May 27, 2008
11:36 a.m.
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notknowitall writes:
I fail to understand how any sane person in the United States would want to vote for McCain when all he seems to stand for is another 4 years of Bush? We need change! Just imagine what all the money we have spent in Irag (and are going to still spend) would have done to improve conditions here?
But, if you still want to remain in the status quo, go ahead and vote for McCain - you will then deserve to allow the U.S. to go straight to H#%*.
May 27, 2008
11:37 a.m.
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rg writes:
McCain and I are the same age and served on Aircraft Carriers; I don't have the vigor to change the status quo. Last week I saw McCain disembarking with an aid's hand clasping McCain's upper arm and it won't be long before Mc and Me need walkers. Mc's "horseplay" on the Forrestal resulted in a bomb exploding that took the lives of 134 sailors and injured many. http://www.n-n-a.com/recreational/pto...
McCain now has as his spiritual advisors Rev. Hague and Parsley who blame Hurricane Katrina and 9/11 on American sin bringing god’s wrath and denounce Catholicism in sinister terms in which I, an ex Catholic concur and they argue that Hitler was sent by god so the Jews would find their own nation, ad nausea. Ends: Jesus Christ sent Bush into Iraq and McCain’s brand of snake oil is the same as the Bush brand: Whatever the baby jew transmogrified into an anti-Semitic Christian God says must prevail under Bush and McCain. Richard Grimes, deicide.
Deicide Corner: The Jesus Christ weasels and others will abrogate the topic (McCain) and opine on the comment. rg “The dull pray; the geniuses are light mockers.” -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
May 27, 2008
11:54 a.m.
Suggest removal
freedomfighter1 writes:
VOTE LIBERTARIAN! It seems to me that the bipartisan parties only balance us back and forth from domestic to foreign, from liberal to conservative. Each 4-8 year period some are happy and some are upset. Remember the more goverment involvement that we allow, the more need for more goverment. Example: mid 1900's brought welfare and that system and those relying upon it have become even more pervasive. Remember the goverment was created to protect our rights, liberties, lives and property. Anymore involvement than this only spells more disaster and hardship.
May 27, 2008
12:10 p.m.
Suggest removal
P_Denver writes:
"Change" is not enough. It needs to be POSITIVE change.
McCain has not yet said exactly what he would do. "Never surrender" is silly. Surrender to who? Defeat who? Pull out and let the factions decide. They will, eventually, anyway.
Obama has not said yet exactly what he will do. "Change" what? "Open dialog" with who? For what purpose? What will he ask for/demand or offer/recommend? We don't know yet.
"Let's hope" is NOT an action plan. The candidates will focus on each other and on issues as soon as the silliness of the primaries are concluded.
May 27, 2008
12:50 p.m.
Suggest removal
Michael writes:
freethought - Back to that "stolen election" refrain again, huh?? So sad. I am sure you were perfectly happy with the Florida Supreme Court re-writing the rules so Gore could have as many recounts as it took to make him win. Sorry the USSC stepped in to screw that all up for you. Maybe you should start praying and thanking a "fairy tale" of your own if you want to have more then 2 presidents in 40 years??? Just a thought.
May 27, 2008
12:51 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
I'm tired of all this arguing! I'm tired of having "so called foes" (to quote freethought). ELECT OBAMA FOR A CHANGE!
When Obama is president, and one of our so-called foes starts acting up, Obama is going to call them on it. He'll fly right over to their country for a little 'face time'; he'll give that naughty leader a stern sideways look and say "who needs a hug?". HE MAY EVEN GIVE THEM A NOOGIE AND A TICKLING until they cry "uncle!", and then they can pose on the balcony with arms draped on each other's shoulders, smiling and waving for the cameras.
McCain? He's too suspicious of our so-called enemies. What a nut case!
May 27, 2008
1:01 p.m.
Suggest removal
DenverDan writes:
I dont think he knows what day it is.
May 27, 2008
1:04 p.m.
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chuckyg writes:
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
May 27, 2008
1:05 p.m.
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davies writes:
Heckfire yes, we gots to lead the peeps based on them there approval ratings!
May 27, 2008
1:28 p.m.
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davies writes:
Good one freethought: "McCain the coward." Whereas Obama won't surrender unless his approval ratings go down I guess?
May 27, 2008
1:38 p.m.
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fiesty writes:
Don't know about you all, but I think all three of the major candidates are terrible. Obama is wishy washy, Hillary wants the taxpayers to pay for illegal immigrants, and McCain voted for Patriot Act legislation that contains unconstitutional clauses. I'm trying to find some independent candidates that are decent and actually stand a chance.
Freethought- you ought to be ashamed of yourself. Becoming a POW doesn't mean someone failed at their objective, and how dare you minimize or insult it?? I might not like McCain, but have to respect the fact that he withstood years of captivitiy honorably.
May 27, 2008
1:41 p.m.
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HOOK writes:
The "O" for f"o"ur more years of President Carter, and hey, I know you guys want to nuke and kill us Americans, but can we just talk? Obama seems to talk the I’ve got a plan for change, believe in my change, but I’m not going to tell you how talk.
P.S. Nowhere in here does it say anything about me pushing for the other side either, just thought I'd get that out in the not so fine print before someone starts attacking me about a stance I haven’t taken.
May 27, 2008
1:49 p.m.
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davies writes:
HOOK: C,mon, take a stand you pansy. Don't be a cowardly surrenderer like McCain.
May 27, 2008
1:51 p.m.
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dilligaf writes:
McSame who said anything about surrender? We already reached our objective. We took out Saddam. Now it's time to turn the country over to it's own people to run. TIME TO COME HOME. That is not surrendering. We have already won. Saddam and his WMD's are gone. He is no longer a threat to our nation. Remember that is why we were told we where going. Not to nation build.
May 27, 2008
2 p.m.
Suggest removal
davies writes:
dilligaf: Try to remember that is exactly the rationale we had when we turned our backs on Afghanistan after the Soviets were defeated; we left it to the tribal lords and the Taliban. So heck yes, let's do it again and see if it works better this time.
May 27, 2008
2 p.m.
Suggest removal
HOOK writes:
davies, who you calling pansy, my stand is that I can’t "stand" any of these three. Did I hurt your poor little feelings by questioning the great leader on the temple of the circle of "O"? Oh boo woo who, no one is supposed to question the great "O"ne are we.
Wow, another brain surgeon, or should I say "brainwashed" surgeon who can’t find one articulate way to explain or describe how their great "leader" is going to do anything. Come on davies, if this is the best you got; you are boring me (yawn)!
May 27, 2008
2:04 p.m.
Suggest removal
jonnyrotten writes:
Pretty disgusting comment Freethought. I'm not a McCain supporter, but as a veteran I feel your "surrender" comment in reference to a POW paints a pretty clear picture of your charater.
May 27, 2008
2:04 p.m.
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davies writes:
HOOK: I was trying to be ironic. It was intended to be a poke at freethought. My bad.
May 27, 2008
2:14 p.m.
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HOOK writes:
OK davies, if that is truly the case then unlike some (most) of our politicians it is not below me to apologize.
May 27, 2008
2:26 p.m.
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davies writes:
History is such a downer sometimes. Why not just make a movie about the way things SHOULD be?
May 27, 2008
2:34 p.m.
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dilligaf writes:
davies,
No No!!!!!! Your not getting away with that crap. It was Ronald Reagan(GOP)that set up the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. So look to this American hero for that bunch.
May 27, 2008
2:39 p.m.
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davies writes:
dilligaffe: The word I used was "we". I don't know where you got "you democrats" out of that. The point is (pay attention now) that after intervening, it was a MISTAKE to turn our backs, walk away, and hope they would work things out for the best.
I can see why HOOK gets a little frustrated...
May 27, 2008
2:41 p.m.
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davies writes:
Freethought: Yes, I see your point; martyrs are heroic. There are some folks in Saudi Arablia that may be interested in chatting with you.
May 27, 2008
2:45 p.m.
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dilligaf writes:
And by the way davies are you for nation building? And if so where do we go next? There are several countries that are in need of this. I just hope we have enough troops and money. It will take a bunch. Besides when your hero Bush said we going to launch an attack on Iraq I missed the part about nation building. I just heard we were going after WMD's. Boy how the story changes for you guys when things don't work as planned.
May 27, 2008
2:52 p.m.
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mojambo writes:
Refusing to punch his ticket was heroic.
Becoming a POW is bad luck.
And, when other options exist - becoming a martyr is just plain stupid.
May 27, 2008
3 p.m.
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eagleye writes:
Freethought: Regarding McCain's "surrender": He was flying his twenty-third bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi. McCain fractured both arms and a leg, and then nearly drowned when he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake in Hanoi. After he regained consciousness, a mob attacked him, crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt, and bayoneted him; he was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Lo Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton."
Regarding his hero status as a POW: In mid-1968, McCain's father was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater, and McCain was offered early release. The North Vietnamese wanted a worldwide propaganda coup by appearing merciful, and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially. McCain turned down the offer of repatriation; he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.
None of this necessarily qualifies him to serve as president. Disagree with his politics all you like. But to question his heroism and bravery in Viet Nam is ridiculous.
May 27, 2008
3:28 p.m.
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davies writes:
freethought puts it in reverse and floors it!
May 27, 2008
3:32 p.m.
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davies writes:
dilligaffe: Yes, given the situation in Iraq, our responsibilities there, and the alternative, I am "for" nation-building in Iraq. That's a "yes".
May 27, 2008
3:57 p.m.
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jonnyrotten writes:
freethought. Here's a free thought for you. try actually reading your posts before you post them.
you had no idea that it was an "us against them" war. As opposed to some other kind of war?
Saddam not "Suddam" (as typos appear to be important to you)
May 27, 2008
4:01 p.m.
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davies writes:
I'll give you this freethought: not too many people take a poke at my spelling. I even went back over some of your posts to see if I could pay you back; to no avail.
As for equating McCain's Vietnam POW experience heroism with that of the suicide bomber (your words: "but wouldn't a martyr be of "heroic" nature also"): I think you are amoral. A good speller maybe, but that's about it.
May 27, 2008
4:10 p.m.
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jonnyrotten writes:
Great post eagleye. If I got called out like that, I would hope I had the guts to admit I put my foot in my mouth and apologize.
May 27, 2008
4:39 p.m.
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MattGuyver_007 writes:
"Heroic" tends to be which side you view it from. An American martyr would be heroic to us and "amoral" to an enemy."
BS. Give me one just ONE comparison of an American Martyr to what they view as a Martyr.
Those b@stards strap explosives on their women and children and send them into public places to kill other innocent women and children and dance and sing LAALOOLOOLOOOLOOOLOOOLOO in the name of Islam.
Americans never have and never will call that behavior Heroic!
May 27, 2008
4:41 p.m.
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davies writes:
"Amoral" means incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong. I think it applies, freethought.
May 27, 2008
4:51 p.m.
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DenverDan writes:
GO Obama our next Pres.
May 27, 2008
4:59 p.m.
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MattGuyver_007 writes:
Wow, you didn't just type that freethought.
I have no response except to say that you're a J@ckass. I'm breaking my own rule to never fire off any personal attacks but I just can't help it this time.
May 27, 2008
4:59 p.m.
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davies writes:
We call that "immoral", freethought. You are hopeless.
May 27, 2008
5:55 p.m.
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GetReal writes:
freethought-
It's precious that you waited until Memorial Day was over to bash a vet, tortured POW, and true American hero.
May you rot in hell you POS.
May 27, 2008
6:48 p.m.
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kevin3 writes:
McCain looks like the fearless leader our country needs, hopefully as fearless as Bush. With enough luck, we will elect McCain and he can start WWIII (long overdue)! Or at the least he can completely alienate our country from the rest of the world (yippy)! Or maybe something even more exciting...become a third world nation!
May 28, 2008
12:08 a.m.
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Chadley25 writes:
Glad to see he plans on coaching from George Bush's playbook.
That should make him just that much easier to defeat in November.
John McCain, ladies and gentlemen. George Bush's third term.
May 28, 2008
8:17 a.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
"Glad to see he plans on coaching from George Bush's playbook. That should make him just that much easier to defeat in November."
That's the exact same prediction made in 2000 and 2004.
May 28, 2008
10:04 a.m.
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jvb writes:
Vietnam/Iraq: Are they equal in fiasco? Aren't both war of choice and not necessity? Isn't it the politicians that should be tortured? W. Bush's loyal press secretary going back to serving Bush in Texas couldn't keep quiet any longer. Bush may be the world's most evil human.
May 28, 2008
10:36 a.m.
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rickg19611 writes:
Chuckie....
Still feeling the sting of having Bush defeat you in 2000 and 2004? Of course, those hilarious predictions by Dimwitocrats in 2000 and 2004 that they would win turned out to be wrong... as most Democrat predictions always turn out....
May 28, 2008
3:11 p.m.
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soccermom writes:
I used to really admire John McCain, but after the Bush guys did a number on him he hugged Bush. It was a terrible moment. I just can't help wondering what else he would do to please that crowd. Yes, the Bush Administration has created more than a few Democrats.
The gorilla in the room that everyone is ignoring is the Supreme Court and who will this candidate choose for those justices. He has already said that he admires Bush's picks, so, I guess it just might be a case of Bush 3.