Eerie signs at girl's home
Slain girl's family shown embracing 'a gang lifestyle'
By Hector Gutierrez, Rocky Mountain News (Contact), Jeff Kass, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published November 29, 2007 at 11:20 p.m.
Updated November 30, 2007 at 2:38 p.m.
A toddler on Amanda Salas' MySpace page shows a child with a "Tha Boss" T-shirt, a gold chain and what appears to be a joint in the child's mouth. The T-shirt, chain and joint appear to be pasted onto the picture.
In a MySpace.com photo titled "Mr. Demon," Leo "Mickey" Cisneros points a gun at the camera. His daughter, Auralia Cisneros, was gunned down Monday night.
Photo by Chris Schneider / The Rocky
Paula Baca, her son, Philix, 3, left, and Tony Cisneros Jr., 3, pay their respects at a memorial for Auralia Cisneros, 10, who was slain Monday night. They are all cousins of Auralia's family.
Auralia Cisneros flashes the sign for Denver's west side with her mom behind her, while another photo of her reads "stayin gangsta."
The young girl's father brandishes what appears to be a semiautomatic handgun, and points the barrel at the camera and in the viewer's face. That caption reads, "Mr. Demon."
These photos from the MySpace page that belongs to Auralia's mother is rife with symbols of what has been called "a gang lifestyle."
They paint a partial picture of the Cisneros household, which has come under scrutiny since the 10-year-old girl was shot dead in her apartment Monday night.
Auralia was an elementary school child caught in a crossfire that may have been drug- or gang-related, police have said.
Two metro gang experts said Thursday the hand signs did not correspond to a specific gang, and they did not directly blame Auralia's parents. But the experts were troubled by the dangerous atmosphere that appeared to surround Auralia.
"Throwing (the sign) is claiming an area and embracing a gang lifestyle, and violence is a prominent part of that," said Francisco Gallardo, program director for the Gang Rescue and Support Project.
"You want to be sympathetic to the (family's) grief, but I think some of the grief and sorrow is maybe because of the activity and the lifestyle older people were living that caused this tragedy to happen," said the Rev. Leon Kelly, executive director of Open Door Youth Gang Alternatives.
Cisneros family members say the shootout was not gang- or drug- related.
But Auralia's mother, Amanda Salas, seemed aware of the brewing MySpace controversy. "It's OK, it's just people's opinions," she said in a brief phone conversation. "It's just a MySpace page."
'I think it's a prop gun'
Salas' handles on her MySpace page include "Mrsdemon303" and "Mizz 3xorcist."
She says she is a 28-year-old stay-at-home mom from "D- town" who does not drink. But on the space reserved for "Who I'd like to meet," she has placed a row of liquor bottles.
One posting on the MySpace page reads: "Haters get shot the f--- up and left for dead."
The message board section includes a few photos of Auralia, and one reads, "REST IN PEACE MY ANGEL I LOVE YOU!"
Some photos show Auralia dressed as a skeleton bride at Halloween, posing with her siblings.
But those are not the only photos. As Auralia flashes the west side sign, she is dressed in a glittery shirt that reads, "Baby Girl" and is wearing heavy makeup.
The Web page was accessible Thursday morning, but viewing was restricted by the afternoon.
Auralia's father, Leo John Cisneros, who goes by "Mickey," also has his own MySpace page. It is covered with marijuana leaves. He identifies himself as a 29- year-old Denver resident whose "occupation" is "street PHD." He says he is a scientologist who earns $75,000 to $100,000.
Cisneros has a history of minor offenses dating back to 1996, which include assault, disturbing the peace, making threats to person or property, destruction of private property, committing unlawful acts around West High School, and failing to appear for court hearings, according to Denver municipal court records.
Auralia's godmother, Roberta Dominguez, earlier said she took Auralia and her father into her home shortly after her birth because her dad was "trying to get back on his feet," which was around the time he was going through his legal problems.
Jessy Paiz, Auralia's cousin, said Cisneros did not smoke marijuana. And of the handgun, Paiz said: "I don't think that's even a real gun. I think it's a prop gun."
And of the hand signs Paiz added, "They (the family) do not actually go out gang-banging. That's where we're from (the west side)."
Auralia appears to have had her own MySpace page, although her age is listed as 16. She touts the name "Baby Girl" and lists her hometown as "Dope City."
She says she is a student who makes $30,000 to $45,000. "Auralia is at home," her page reads, and also carries the quote: "Hating me won't make you pretty."
Human services probe
Meantime, the Denver Department of Human Services has launched an investigation into the family, said Chris Mootz, the department's legal head.
Whenever a child fatality occurs, the human services department is notified. Human services workers then conduct an initial inquiry to assess whether any other children in a household would be exposed to any substantial risk of harm before deciding whether the parents can continue to care for the youngsters, Mootz said.
Auralia's siblings were inside the apartment at the time of the gunfire, according to family.
Mootz said the human services department has not taken custody of Auralia's siblings; however, he could not discuss whether they were returned to the parents or placed with other family members. Disturbing images posted on the Web by the victim's parents also would be considered as part of the investigation by human services, he said.
Before Monday night's tragedy, the human services department had not received any referrals about possible child-welfare issues at the family's home, he said.
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November 30, 2007
9:37 a.m.
Suggest removal
Dnvrntve writes:
Poor child. Shame on the parents for exposing Auralia to all of these negative elements and essentially putting her life in danger.
R.I.P. Auralia
November 30, 2007
9:38 a.m.
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cnguyen writes:
What a sad sad story...
November 30, 2007
9:58 a.m.
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I_Slay_The_Dragon writes:
To parapharse, Dnvrntve: Poor Child. Shame on a Country and
a Society that creates and fosters all of these negative elements.
Give a group of People, a stacked socio-economic deck.
Minimalize their vast contributions. Instutionalize, their
exclusion. Question, their right to exist in a Country, countless
numbers of them, died for. Demoralize, their very, Existence.
Feed their minds and souls, with purposely unattainable
Hopes and Dreams. Force them to merely Survive, and watch
others live.
Then ask, in hidden-glee, "WHAT is wrong with YOU People?!"
Meja, Fly, with Angels. And, forgive them. ALL.
November 30, 2007
10:07 a.m.
Suggest removal
Joanna writes:
These "parents" need to be sterilized, and the remaining children need to be taken away. IMMEDIATELY. They obviously have no idea how to actually parent a child. HOW DARE THEY EXPOSE THEIR CHILDREN TO THESE ELEMENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who dressed and makes up their 10 YEAR OLD in such a fashion? Do they also have a pix posted on CraigsList pimping out this poor little girl?
Many years ago, a few friends of mine had a child - a little boy. At the time, I said "poor kid, he doesn't stand a chance." Well, unfortunately, I was right. How I wish I had done something when there was still time for this kid.
Reap, meet Sow
November 30, 2007
10:10 a.m.
Suggest removal
mrtweed65 writes:
"Give a group of People, a stacked socio-economic deck.
Minimalize their vast contributions. Instutionalize, their
exclusion. "???
You are a fool! You don't think Asians arriving here from half way around the world aren't coming here with a "stacked deck" against them? Yet they and others like them THRIVE. This family had no positive VALUES...you idiot!!!!
Reading your email infuriates me because it is the "blame everyone else" mumbo jumbo that so many people like you love to spew! Fact is this family made a choice it was a bad choice, but they are responsible for the death of thier kid, wearing gang attire, carrying guns, doing drugs, etc.
I hate to sound cold, but the girl is in a better place. We purchased a home far away to the S.E. of Aurora to get away from people like these. What kind of "family" embraces the lowest of the low for values? This kind. Believe me, there are many more like this family; Ignorant, pathetic, sad and I dare say 'GHETTO"!
That poor little girl NEVER had a chance!
November 30, 2007
10:33 a.m.
Suggest removal
I_Slay_The_Dragon writes:
mrtweed...If the undeniable contributing root-causes, have brought
you so much anger, perhaps, Truth, has found you.
Other ethnic groups? Each distinct and unique, in their "American"
experience. Ironically, I've heard decorated Latino Vietnam
Veterans, ask a question slightly similiar, to yours.
I'm a fool? I've been called worse...since I was about five-years-old.
Only, in America.
November 30, 2007
10:59 a.m.
Suggest removal
sweetmo writes:
to Mr. Tweed, not to be rude, but violence happens anywhere, please don't ever think it 'can't happen in your neighborhood', the devil can go anywhere people take him.
November 30, 2007
11:30 a.m.
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timeandagain writes:
I_SLAY:
I keep reading your posts and I think I know what you are trying to say but you are so unintelligible that it is really difficult. You use commas in the oddest ways... Are you trying to be poetic? I just don't get it...
At any rate, if you are blaming society, quit. People make their own choices and - even for the poorest of folks - many of the photos that came off of their websites are unbelieveably disturbing. They demonstrate a pattern of bad choices on the part of these slobs. It finally caught up with their daughter and we are supposed to believe that it is someone else's fault. You are nuts!
November 30, 2007
11:33 a.m.
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mrtweed65 writes:
You are missing the point, and if you've been called worse since 5 years old, that explains your stance on this issue. I feel sorry for you.
It's all about the choices, stop making excuses for people who CHOOSE to make bad decisions.
"Only in America" can we have so many opportunities to create a better place for our children be it economically, spiritually, etc. and yet certain people idolize the lowest of the low, while others (eh hem slay the dragon)support them and give them feeble excuses to continue thier ways.
I realize there is violence "everywhere" I also realize after living in that part of town that I was sick of children my own kids ages (under 10) flipping adults off, while the "parents" threaten with thier pit bulls, break into homes, stay drunk on the corner, babies with no shoes and filled diapers, loud music from thier wheel-spinning circus mobiles, gold teeth wearin' thugs who have no idea what a belt is, etc. I am not exaggerating. The summers were much, much worse. People don't want to hear this, they'll site "racism" or whatever. The fact is these type of people embrace the "ghetto" lifestyle. Reading the article the results are obvious.
Why would I want to raise my kids around that?
November 30, 2007
11:43 a.m.
Suggest removal
joeblow writes:
A 'stacked socio-economic deck?" Does a stacked socio-economic deck preclude the use of common sense? Does a stacked deck mean societal norms be damned? Does it mean you paint a child like a dance-hall queen? Does it mean you teach gang signs to a pre-pubescent little girl? Does it mean playing the fool and keeping weapons and drugs in a home and inviting in an element that shouldn't be there---around your children?!!!
I am saddened by the unecessary and unfortunate death of this child. But, to ascribe it to a stacked deck and refusal to think that personal behavior plays no role in this matter is not only naive, it is basic stupidity. This child's sad death was preordained by inexcusably irresponsible parenting.
The child had no say-so in the negative nurturing her parents cursed her with. There are simply too many poor families(white and minority) who don't resort to lowest common denominator parenting and, instead, make their best effort to instill positive and societally responsible values to use the 'stacked-deck' defense.
Anyone who gives this horrendously dysfunctional family a pass or excuse in this matter is being as irresponsible as the parents of a child who will never grow up.
One can only hope that the pain of this loss has some positive result in the way the other siblings grow....but it is hard to imagine any change in this demon-seed factory.
I am sorry for the pain this family will endure. But had these two parents been responsible, caring and loving, they'd be sending their little girl to school today instead of planning her funeral.
November 30, 2007
11:45 a.m.
Suggest removal
sweetmo writes:
Believe me you don't have to tell me about what the hood looks like, I am very aware. But have you ever stopped to think these people don't have good parents like yourself to guide them. I realize that not everyone is fortunate as others, but I feel it is my responsibility to reach out to kids. Sometimes all they know is to flip someone off because no one ever taught them different. What ever happened to 'it takes a village to raise a child'. So if a kid flips you off try smiling back at them or waving at them. Or even a simple hello. I took my son to a store in Southeast Aurora and my four year old son (african american) said hi to a lady in the store a simple 'hello' and she gave him the look of death like he just stole something from her. I kindly said to her, "he only wants to say hello and wish you a good day' and she gave me the same look. He said hello to a guy in the 'hood' and the guy said 'what's up little homie' and my son Smiled!!!!
November 30, 2007
11:50 a.m.
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sweetmo writes:
I agree with joeblow, these parents need to take FULL responsibility for their actions, they need STRONG PARENTAL GUIDANCE and most importantly need to seek God. HE provides all the tools needed for parenting. I hope parents learn a lesson from this and those of us that are parents I hope we continue to learn about our impact on our children and other childrens lives. I teach my kids to love, respect and the power of God's love, but I don't stop with my own kids....I speak to young parents and help them find resources.....
November 30, 2007
12:03 p.m.
Suggest removal
Finding_Forever writes:
A 10 year old CHILD was murdered. Who cares what area she lived in, or what her dumb parents did? The fact still remains that a CHILDS life was taken way before it was her time, and instead of taking time to truly think about this horrible tragedy, and finding ways to try and prevent such a thing from happening again, we have people pointing fingers and spreading more hate. Having a "Wheel-spinning circus mobile" or being a "gold teeth wearin' thug," are personal choices just like being a Lexus driving family man is. When is society going to stop being so judgemental, stop pointing fingers, and start making moves? And i dont mean moving away from the problem. Its all so silly to me. A beautiful girl is gone. She'll never experience prom and she'll never get the chance to grow old and gain wisdom. Can we just mourn her the right way, and pray for justice? I wonder what kind of story the media would run, and what kind of comments there would be if the situation was the same, only the victim was a 10 year old caucasion kid from Highland Ranch?
November 30, 2007
12:04 p.m.
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aspenbear21 writes:
you need to get a clue.punk
November 30, 2007
12:12 p.m.
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I_Slay_The_Dragon writes:
FindingForever and SweetMo, you two, outta be elected.
My work here, is done.
November 30, 2007
12:27 p.m.
jdaddy5499 writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
November 30, 2007
12:46 p.m.
Suggest removal
I_Slay_The_Dragon writes:
Addendum: To all who insist I'm "blaming society", buy
a really big book called a dictionary, look-up
the words "undeniable", "contributing",
"root", and "cause(s)".
Timeandagain "I just don't get it" is the second
most accurate statement, made here today.
Perhaps, jdaddy said, what most of you REALLY mean.
November 30, 2007
1:16 p.m.
Suggest removal
HarWil writes:
Kid's don't grow up dressing like streetwalkers, flashing gang signs and Tech9's, or posing with a blunt hanging from their mouth. No people, that's what is called learned behavior. Taught by the sub-human garbage that brought this poor child into her "stayin' gangsta" world. And then there's the thugs that actually perpetrated this horrific crime...Do you think that the victim and these gangbangers might just have a little something in common? The equation is simple: Lifestyle = Deathstyle. This tragedy is so senseless and such a waste. But are we really surprised?
November 30, 2007
1:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
scottmo writes:
Based on that fine vocabulary Slay must live next door to these people. Blame society for someone being a poor parent.
Raise a kid in this way and you can plan on them being dead or in jail before they are out of their teens. These parents have much of the responsibility for the little girls death even though they didn't pull the trigger. The little boy will be next unless someone takes him away to a CARING family.
Maybe the family was just living life like their ancestors. That's another common excuse for failure.
November 30, 2007
1:39 p.m.
Suggest removal
Rocco3454 writes:
I agree with Mr Tweed. These people have been coddled, stroked and given special rights, passes and privileges for 30 years and have done nothing with any of it. All we've done is create a bunch of whiners and excuse-makers; shame on us, too!
November 30, 2007
1:56 p.m.
Suggest removal
DenverMom80031 writes:
Please let this child rest in peace!
My condolence goes out to the friends and family of this child.
No matter the stituation a child has been killed, blaming the family won't bring her back.
Please let the family have peace!
November 30, 2007
2:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
DenverMom80031 writes:
"let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"
Let the family mourn for their child.
November 30, 2007
2:38 p.m.
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scottmo writes:
It's one thing to sin.
It's another to flagrantly expose your children (who depend on you for life) to a lifestyle that gets them killed.
November 30, 2007
2:47 p.m.
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DenverMom80031 writes:
It is not up to us to judge them.
November 30, 2007
2:52 p.m.
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scottmo writes:
Sure it is. That's why they have this forum.
November 30, 2007
2:52 p.m.
Suggest removal
HarWil writes:
"blaming the family won't bring her back"..."let the family have peace". Let she who is without sense, stop writing trite & meaningless platitudes! Is there a proper time to comment on this? Should open discourse include how we can prevent this in the future? Or should we just not talk about it? Beyond the criminal investigation of this tragedy (finding and prosecuting the killers) is it within your mental grasp that this household also needs to be investigated? Or should we just change the forum to this discuss this weekends Bronco game? Wake up, DenverMom!
November 30, 2007
4:29 p.m.
Suggest removal
Diff writes:
The parents should be tried for child neglect and endangerment resulting in death, and sent to prison for life!
Was this family ever in the Social services system concerning the children? if not it is a shame and if they were.. there also needs to be an investigation as to why this was not caught and the children taken away!
November 30, 2007
4:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
scout writes:
Society is not to blame.
This family is garbage, and thier actions caused this tragedy. They should rot in jail with the gunman. I don't fell sorry for them in the least. It's only too bad that they were entrusted with the care of this child and FAILED COMPLEATLY!
November 30, 2007
5:08 p.m.
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Alive writes:
Some kings and queens huh? Pure scum.
November 30, 2007
5:39 p.m.
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Ramm writes:
Promoting this type of behavior at home to validate yourself is not the best use of a parent's time. I would reason that the little girl might have picked up on at least some of the "gansta" mood, music, and lifestyle even if it was play-time make-believe. My kids have play-time and pretend to be tough too. And if no one gets hurt then so what. Right?
So another person [child] becomes another stat and brings grief to her family and friends. I know the constant promotion of the gansta stuff by [pick whoever comes to mind]keeps it edgy and fun. You know, "we live in the 'hood or the barrio crap.
Of course "let the family grieve". No one will able to stop that. No one is that powerful as to even try. But the truth is self-evident. Maybe one less family will try to glamorize this lifestyle.
Parents ARE an influence on kids. In return kids will do almost anything to make the parent's proud of them and to show me how much they can be like their parents. So who knows
Two last comments: 1. It seems that an Anglo cannot post a tiny part of his comments in Spanish because my previous post has been removed. Thats all-right I just repeated it in English. I guess that I am not supposed to be un p.c. or something. How inane.
2. This little one might have ignored the bad/immature behavior of her parents and turned out good. I dunno but I did o.k. I guess and I grew up in much more extreme circumstances than what I read that she did.
November 30, 2007
6:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
teacher5000 writes:
I teach in an inner city high school. I have a student who grew up in a similar family. Her father was killed by a gang in L.A.. She was going the same way until she got preganant and her mother dumped her and her siblings for her sex offender boyfriend. You know what she decided to do? Make something of her life, she is taking advantage of the FREE education she is offered, relying on the foster parents she has and talking to judges about how to improve the situation for kids like her. She has taken a "stacked deck" and turned it into something! These parents could have done the same thing, but the did not! For that they don't deserve sympathy or excuses. Life is not fair, but people make choices! To say they have no choices is a slap in the face to every hard working person out there who overcame this crap and decided to get out.
One more thing the article talked about the problems her father had at West High School. I bet he had classmates who studied hard, got good jobs and took care of their kids. If they could do it why couldn't he. I guess he is just weak! That bullet hit the wrong person.
November 30, 2007
6:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
Journeystarr writes:
Just because some girl throws up a stupid gang sign in a picture on Myspace doesn't mean that she's "gangsta". They live on the West Side of Denver, their stupid sign shouldn't mean jack in terms of gang affiliation. Gang bangers like Auralia' parets are posers & wannabe gangsters. The pic of the father with the Uzi is fake, or at least I heard the gun was. The DPD once again decided that it was a "gang related shooting" even though the only evidence of gang acitivty in the whole story are a couple of staged Myspace pictures. Get over it, media. PLEASE for the sake of Auralia stop overhyping this & making the family into a bunch of stupid gangsters. You are making an example out of Auralia, just let her rest in peace & let her family cope & move on. Auralia isn't the only victim here; we all suffer when an innocent, unaffiliated, beautiful, hopeful youngster like her is gunned down through no fault of her own.
& to add, what would an innocent 10 year old know about thug life, or gangsters in general? nothing.
November 30, 2007
6:43 p.m.
Suggest removal
Journeystarr writes:
Umm, Joanna, the family was NOT gangster & knee jerk comments like yours aren't going to win over anyone on this board. Did you even bother to read this story or all the other 10,000 previous stories relating to this poor girl? let her RIP already & let her family deal with their sudden loss. Without the idiot public & media making a spectacle of it.
November 30, 2007
6:55 p.m.
Suggest removal
Alive writes:
Would her "family" show show respect if any of us "rich white folks" suffered a loss? Nope. They hate everything about us. So right back at ya. They should be in jail for exposing that child to such insanity.
November 30, 2007
8:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
teacher5000 writes:
hakj
Your right people do sometimes take on a fake persona on the web. But when you are answering the door with a loaded gun and exchanging gun fire, you have crossed a line! When you lie to the police about the circumstances surrounding your daughter's death, you have crossed a line. When you bring your kids into your "fantasy world" and dress them up like little gang bangers, you have crossed a line. These parents had no jobs, guns and drugs in the house and they were actively teaching their kids that this was OK. This was not a "secret fantasy" they were living out. Do you think that baby asked them to photoshop a joint in her mouth? Little girls like to play with make-up, does that mean the mother should complete the ensemble by putting on her gang attire and throwing up gang signs. Is she teaching her daughter to pretend like she is something she is not? Perhaps, but since nothing good comes out of gang banging why would any responsible mother want to teach her daughter that?
Kids experiment, parents are supposed to teach the difference between right and wrong! Go ahead have your on-line fantasies. But then get a job and raise your kids in a safe environment.
These people are BAD parents. The dad never finished high school (check his my space if you do not believe me), has been in trouble with the law and was too lazy to get a job and take care of his family (oh I'm sorry he is a recored producer-waiting for his big break, another fantasy). The mother was also a "stay at home mom", that's great if you have the money to do it. If you don't get off your butt and get a job like the rest of us(yes I am a working single mother)!
I feel terrible for this little girl, and even worse for her siblings. I work with these kids everyday and have for the past ten years. Making excuses for them helps NO ONE!
Since it is my tax dollars that have been supporting this family while they sat around and made their "fake" on-line personas, I don't feel guilty about judgeing them!
Maybe the parents are really gang members, maybe they are wanna be's, does it really matter? They got their daughter killed. I just hope it opens some eyes in this city.
November 30, 2007
9:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
Journeystarr writes:
The parents were NOT gangsters, no matter what the stupid media tries to portray. You guys believe everything mainstream media tells you? sheep.
November 30, 2007
10:32 p.m.
Suggest removal
ajm2007 writes:
I have never lived in any of these parts of Denver but have several friends who have and unfortunately this lifestyle is a reality. The people who live in these scary parts of town have a choice but sometimes no way to get out. How are they going to move? I am not excusing anything that they did but none of you know these people and how they were raising their kids. Plus the important thing is that they lost their child and they deserve some respect and privacy while they grieve their child. Even if they were/are bad parents, they still lost their child. It's sad that there is all of this controversy masking the loss of an innocent child.
Auralia~ rest in peace sweetheart.
December 1, 2007
8:46 a.m.
Suggest removal
joeblow writes:
The person who posts here as Rocco is a certifiable moron. Now, Rocco, stop drooling into your cup and tell us---tell the freaking world---what 'special rights' this family has been coddled with?
By your thinking, 'special rights' aren't such a good thing. You get 'em and you end up with a murdered child!
The only 'special rights' this family had are the ones you enjoy---the right to be stupid! Oh, yes. You also, apparently, have the right to be a bigot!
Get your own life in order, Rocco. That, in itself, should keep you busy for the next, oh, hundred years!
And for 'Journey'. If this family wasn't playing on the wrong side, then tell us why a nearly thirty-year old 'family' man is posing for pictures with a real or fake automatic pistol, teaching his child to throw signs, putting a joint in his baby's mouth and warning the world that 'snitches get stitches'?
Journey, if you're ignoring all that, you're missing the big picture....and a whole lot more. Oh, please assure us that you aren't using that you aren't using this family for parenting tips.
December 1, 2007
9:35 a.m.
Suggest removal
I_Slay_The_Dragon writes:
At least yesterday, the ignorant hate-spewing was minimal.
Based on the latest posts, Denver is rife with "Perfect
Parents" who enjoy pointing their "perfect" fingers.
I wonder amidst all this "perfection", is there just a little
compassion, a little love, for the family of a murdered child?
Ironically, maybe a "gangsta" named Tony Montana was right:
"...You need people like me, so you can point your _____ fingers
and say "that's the bad guy"...so...what does that make you
Good? You're not good. You just know how to HIDE...how to LIE"
December 1, 2007
11:38 a.m.
Suggest removal
teacher5000 writes:
Well said Joeblow, as for I SLay the Dragon I don't see anyone claiming to be perfect. But when you sit on your butt instead of getting a job you invite the response you get from the people who are supporting you. I have no problem with people getting help from the state while they are getting back on their feet or going to school to increase their earning potentional (perhaps so they can move out of the neighboorhood or work together to improve it). To to make it a way of life-I have a problem with that. I have made mistakes as a parent, but my mistakes have never invited an armed gunman to my door nor do I answer my door with an semi-automatic gun. And no I do not live in the suburbs!
As for Journeystar, you might be right they may not be the gang members they claim to be (check out dad's myspace), but wanna be's can be more dangerous than real gang members because they have something to prove. Do you REALLY think this is an example of good parenting and they are completely blameless in their daughter's death?
December 1, 2007
8:52 p.m.
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hm writes:
Absolutely Teacher 5000--we owe these parents nothing but we do owe their other children (how many more have they had?) a chance to get out since it appears our hard-earned tax money funded those pregnancies/births as well. They lived on what? WIC? welfare? For i am assuming the parents are not retired having made their millions already--makes me sick. This is not society's fault, it is 100% the parent's fault. And the fault of our government-you all like the new cultural values you are on the receiving end of Denver residents? Are sanctuary cities/states great or what... poor little girl...poor CO residents of the lawful sort...my poor kids, this is the new culture they will grow up with.
December 2, 2007
3:15 p.m.
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JM writes:
Gangs are alive and well! Do you really think that these low life's are going to admit they are in a gang? No. I think they are scum / trash and need their other children taken away now! I think that some of the people on here want to see them as "poor parents greiving for their child".....bullsh_t!!! They don't give a damn about that child and obviously never did! They are more worried about saving their own ass and getting back at the other gang that pulled the trigger. I think the community is who will be grieving for this child!
December 2, 2007
4 p.m.
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teacher5000 writes:
hakj
Read the paper, this family is under investigation by HUD becasue the father was not supposed to be living the house! He is a felon and the payments were going to the girl's mother(payments you and I are making)!
How much does it take to be a stay at home mom? Well one of you has to have a job, or you could get housing assistance and welfare, then lie about who the money is supporting. If you want to support this family go for it, I would like to see my tax dollars spent on people who are trying to improve themsevles. Frankly I already have 2 kids to support. If I was married I could stay home or my husband could BECASUE I HAVE A JOB. Your wife stays home BECAUSE YOU HAVE A JOB!
Your right high school drop outs can be successul and people should follow their dreams. But when you have kids you have to put them first that means GETTING A JOB and following your dreams on whatever time you have left! I put myself through college and grad school, because I wanted what was best for my kids. By your standards I should have sat back, collected welfare, and waited for my "success" to happen. I could have partied, taken pictures of myself and my kids holding up guns and gang signs, that would have SOOOOO much easier. I guess we are just different.
According to relatives they were not dealing, but there were drugs in the house (get your facts straight), if they were not working who paid for those drugs? They also claimed their daughter was killed in a drive by, until police discovered the shots were fired inside the house.
So let's see:
They lied to Hud and the police, but we should believe everything else they say.
As for your brother's picture you made a big point that the cigar was unlit, why not light it? Because that would be irresponsible. Does he have any pictures of himself pointing a weapon a the camera. How about his myspace is it decorated with pot leaves. Does he follow the motto that "snitches get stiches"? Has he taught his son to throw up the west side sign? Did he write "stayin gangsta" under the picture. If you answered yes than he is probably an irresponsible parent, because those things can get a kid in trouble.
I have an idea how about if I come to your house with a van full of gang bangers and you can tell them to carry on, becasue they have the RIGHT to live anyway they want. You can also take your $45,ooo a year and pay their bills. Just don't cry if someone gets hurt.
Personally, I would like to devote my time and energy to helping these kids get OUT-not helping them make excuses and justify what they are doing!
One more quesiton, if dad does make it big do you think he will pay you or I back for the money we spend providing food and shelter for his family, while he was finding himself?
We obviously live in VERY different worlds and frankly your world scares me!
December 2, 2007
4:10 p.m.
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teacher5000 writes:
hajk
One more thing. You keep saying according to whom. My information is comeing from published interviews with the police and the housing authority. Do you really think they are the liars and this pristine family is telling the god's honest truth (except when they get caught and have to amend their stories)? I also have over 10 years of experience working with kids in similar situations and their familes. Do you do anything besides stick your head in the sand? I would also like to point out that on average people with more educaiton make more money and thus are better able to support their families (check the U.S. department of labor statistics if you do not believe me). One more question would you allow your kids to play with a kids from a family like this. I would and I have, because I believe kids need a chance, not your silly excuses! Get your head out of the sand!
December 2, 2007
4:27 p.m.
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teacher5000 writes:
Just one more thing hajk becasue your ignorance has really got me steamed. I am a landlord and I sometimes get women coming to look at my place who are getting section 8. I have been asked multiple times if I will allow thier boyfriends to live there and I will keep it a secret from the housing authority. I have NEVER allowed it. With two adults one of them can work (sort of like your family). Also, ask your brother how he will react if his son drinks a 5th of scotch and kills himself or someone else in a car accident. Will you all be laughing then? Will that be cute? What will you say when you look back at that picture. I hope your ignorance does not extend to not teaching your kids to drink responsibly. Teaching your kids to embrace a gangster lifestyle will not lead to anything GOOD and it is not cute.
December 2, 2007
4:59 p.m.
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Alive writes:
When I see people defend these sociopaths and their lifestyle, I realize that we have a lot of work to do.
As a society, we have a really big mess to clean up. And we need to do it now.
This glorification of gang culture is a serious threat to the future of the human race. Numbering in the millions, these products of modern times, often lament the "haters" they encounter and almost wear as a badge of honor just how "hated" they are. They display immense pride in the drugs they use, the weapons they own, and the cash money that comes with the sale or theft of both.
On social networking websites, such as MySpace, one will often encounter images displaying large amounts of cash, numerous weapons, and an array threatening and violent icons that are intended to create fear in anyone who disagrees with them.
There is a complete rejection of "white" culture, which to them is represented by personal responsibility, education and kindness. They see these things as weakness, and in no uncertain terms reject anyone who displays these traits, no matter what ethnicity they happen to be.
Fueled by greedy hucksters that produce and sell the assorted paraphernalia that this "lifestyle" thrives on, the gang culture flourishes almost everywhere. A trip to any flea market reveals an endless array of cheap gang and hip hop oriented material that is consumed to the tune of millions of dollars a year. One can easily find Scar Face posters, various "bling", bandannas, music, weapons, clothing, and other imagery all designed to perpetuate and celebrate violence, destruction, and hopelessness. References to "Live hard and die young." abound.
To end this apocolyptic madness those who profit from the production and sale of this garbage should be "encouraged" to find other means of income. We start by learning about the problem and demanding of our "leaders" to eradicate it.
If this sickness is allowed to spread unabated as it has been, the social problems of 2030 will be of an unimanginable magnitude.
The message is this: Unless we make it unpopular and unpleasant to choose to adopt this "lifestyle", we will find ourselves in an ugly, dangerous and depressing world.
Only the philosophy of cooperation, coupled with a rejection of lawlessness can overcome this insane reaction to our complex technological world.
December 2, 2007
5:14 p.m.
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Alive writes:
hakj
Those pictures are anything but funny. I suggest you have the issues if you find humor in a 10 year old flashing gang signs.
December 2, 2007
5:37 p.m.
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teacher5000 writes:
hakj
What will it take? A picture is worth a thousand words, have you seen the pictures? You did not answer any of my questions, you just accuse everyone of lying (except this family) and if you beleive this family than dad sports and semi-automatic weapon and is in a gang (or at least that is what he wanted people to think until his daughter was killed, then it was all just a joke).
Newspapers can be dishonest, so can PEOPLE. No I do not know this family, but I have worked with kids from far worse. Beleive me the parents will lie to anyone to cover thier tracks! We need to focus on the kids!!!!! If we are ever going to stop gang violence we need to confront the problem! My hope is that this girls death will get some conversations started (that is why I have spent more time than usual reading posts and stories about this story), but that will NEVER happen if people keep blaming society and claiming this poor family is being railroaded.
I am glad you are doing some good work for your community, but I believe you are WAY off base on this one! I really do not think this is a giant "conspiracy" to railroad this family. I do believe he was living in the house illeagally and I do believe that they tried to cover their tracks by saying the shots came from outside. I also beleive it is not ok to indoctrinate your kid into gang culture (perhaps the media doctored that photo but that little girl was throwing up Westside signs and published a photo on her myspace that said "stayin gangsta").
If you are truly someone who cares about kids then join those of us who deal with stuff on a daily basis in starting a conversation that might do some good, instead using this to promote your meida conspiracy agenda (just for the record I do not believe EVERYTHING I read, but if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck).
I also stick by my assertion that parents have a responsibility to work and raise their kids in a safe environment! According to blogs written by the father's cousin, he was all about his music. That would be fine if he could make a living at it. Good luck to you and your family!
December 2, 2007
5:51 p.m.
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teacher5000 writes:
hajk
I never said that picture would be the cause, I asked if it would be funny? I have a daughter the same age as Auralia and we live in a neighborhood with a history of gang violence, I have been very open with her, but I would NEVER glorify it. She was on a soccer team where the coach (a high school student) had the kids crossing their arms and saying "what's up gansta", becasue she thought it was cute. I put a stop to it because it is NOT cute. It gets people hurt and killed.
That was my point! Teach your kids right from wrong and push them in the direction you want them to go. Don't get upset if you push them toward gangs and people get get offended!
December 2, 2007
9:49 p.m.
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teacher5000 writes:
hakj
I have no problem with him pursuing his dream as a record producer. My problem is that he was living in subsidized houseing that he was not supposed to be in when he was doing. Again, when you have kids you should get a job and support them, I can't believe you want to argue with me about that.
I never said a college degree is the only way to make money, I said people with more education make more money-indisputable fact (I am talking over all, there are always individual exceptions). Perhaps this father could have gotten some education and made a good living as an electrician or plumber while he pursued his music. I never said he had to go to college. I just said I do not want to pay for someones bills, so they can NOT work. THere are lots of examples of people who made it agianst the odds, you know what most of them were HARD workers, they did not sit around in state subsidized housing waiting for their breaks to come to them.
As for the pics-PLEASE, nothing good comes from being in a gang and it should not be glorified. Why would you argue about that! I agree it is context, but agian, why would you allow it? If you really wanted you kids to break the cycle why would you allow it, let alone participate in it.
I hope this starts some much needed discussion, perhaps it will be a wake up call for her parents and a year from now they will be reaching out to other parents. That can be Aurailia's legacy!
December 3, 2007
5:58 a.m.
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ChristineG writes:
What amazes me is that some of you can actually find a way to excuse the behavior and actions of these "parents", and I use the term VERY loosely.
However, here is something to ponder. Reports state that there was "an exchange of gunfire". Could it be possible that maybe the gunfire coming from INSIDE the house killed that child? Could it be possible that maybe the "assailant/assailants" that killed that child was her own parent?
Let me just say, a semi-automatic weapon like the one shown in the MYSPACE photo is not generally what one keeps for home protection, as was stated by the father as to why there was a weapon in the house.
Better this child died now than six or eight or ten years from now, because trust me, living the life she was living she would have as it is inevitable.
December 3, 2007
9:23 a.m.
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concernedcowoman writes:
I too came from a home where I was mentally and physically abused (but not sexually, thank god). The only thing I learned even from that young age that poor girl was is NOT TO BE like my father. So to say she might have been doomed to grow up like them is wrong. Not all go the way their parents went. Unfortunately her parents actions caused her death. That could have been me, but thank God , it wasn't. Rest in peace, little one, you are safe with God now.
December 3, 2007
5:43 p.m.
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teacher5000 writes:
Does it matter if the gun was real or a prop? What about the quote in his website something along the lines of "Demon is coming to get your, bullets will fly, board up your windows" read Tina Griego, this was posted on his website. What about "haters get F----- and left for dead" from the mother's website.
Accoring to section 8 he was not supposed to be living in the house, he did not work, but was looking for work. Mom did not work. Who do you think was providing the rest of the support for this family?
Yes there were drugs in the house. The family confirmed it.
Your sequence of events is interesting since this was origionally reported as a drive by! You want me to believe that the gunman walked in and intentionally shot the girl. Does that make sense?
He had a history of arrests, but those were not his fault. Again you are taking the families word as gossipal and questining everyone else. He had trouble finding work becasue of the tattos on his face (sounds like more poor judgement)!
Read Tina Griego's article. They might have been in a gang, they might not have, but the GLORIFIED the lifestyle that is a problem Please tell me one good thing that has ever come out of gang banging.
I would also like to point out that your opinion is at odds with the local "gang experts" and yes I have talked to several of them!
I still think you are off base on this one!
December 9, 2007
12:05 p.m.
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StandUp writes:
The police said this week that the fatal shot in the head came from HER DAD's GUN.
He should be arrested for murder