A gunman's bloody trail: from hate mail to mass murder
By Alan Gathright, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published December 10, 2007 at 9:35 a.m.
Updated December 10, 2007 at 5:47 p.m.
Photo by Kevin Moloney, Pool photo
As many as 20 bullet holes riddle the entryway of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs today, one day after a gunman killed two church members and wounded three others before being fatally shot by a church security officer.
Photo by Linda McConnell, Special to the Rocky / Linda McConnell/ Special to the Rocky
An investigator checks out a home in 10900 block of East Berry Place in Centennial late Sunday night. ATF, Arapahoe County Sherrif's officials and Centennial Police officers searched the home at that location in connection with two church shootings earlier in the day.
- PDF: Search warrant for gunman's home
- Arvada investigators believe attacks linked
- Danger and death in Arvada
- No general alert sent after center shootings
- 'Last place' for a deadly attack
- Dan Griebenow has group rooting for his recovery
- Tiffany Johnson was known for her smile, her love of children
- Charlie Blanch involved with YWAM for 2 years
- Philip Crouse had undergone transformation
A 24-year-old man embittered after being kicked out of missionary school three years ago carried out Sunday's deadly rampages in Colorado Springs and Arvada, police said today.
Matthew J. Murray, who was killed by a New Life Church security guard during his second attack, had recently sent "hate mail" to the target of his first attack — Youth With A Mission training center in Arvada — according to a police document supporting a warrant to search the Murray family's home in Arapahoe County.
At a news conference late this afternoon, police said gun testing, the house search and interviews with Murray's family members and others confirmed that he was responsible for the shooting rampages.
"Within the past 30 minutes, testing has confirmed that the handgun found at the church in Colorado Springs is forensically linked to shell casings found at the crime scene in Arvada," Arvada Police Chief Don Wick said during the briefing at the Colorado Springs Police Department.
Police said Murray was armed with an assault rifle, two handguns and a backpack jammed with bullet clips carrying 1,000 rounds as well as smoke bombs.
"Based on information obtained during the course of the investigation, we believe that Matthew Murray is responsible for the crime," Wick said.
Police are investigating Murray's 2002 dismissal from the Youth With A Mission training center in Arvada, Wick said.
But court records obtained by the Rocky today said Murray was bitter over his explusion from the 12-week missionary training program.
"The common denominator with both locations of (the shootings), is a church-based group called 'Youth With A Mission' (Y-WAM)," Colorado Springs Detective Bradley Pratt wrote Sunday in a search warrant affidavit.
"It appears that the suspect had been kicked out of that program ... years prior, and during the past few weeks, had sent different forms of hate mail to the program, and/or its director," Pratt wrote.
Y-WAM issued a statement this afternoon saying Murray did not complete missionary training because program directors "felt that issues with his health made it inappropriate for him to do so."
Murray's ejection from the school was confirmed by Cheryl Morrison, whose husband, George Morrison, is pastor of the Faith Bible Chapel adjacent to Y-WAM in Arvada.
"I don't think that 'run-in' is the word, but they did have to dismiss him," Cheryl Morrison said. "It had to be something of significance, because they go the nth degree with people."
The search warrant affidavit shows that Murray assaulted New Life Church like a commando on a suicide mission.
As people were leaving the Colorado Springs megachurch just after 1 p.m. Sunday, the gunman clad in a black coat "deployed distraction devices, possibly in the form of homemade smoke grenades, and/or improvised explosive devices" in the parking lot and began spraying gunfire, the affidavit says.
The gunman killed Stephanie Works, 18, and Rachael Works, 16, outside the church. The girls' father, David Works, 51, was shot in the abdomen and groin area in the attack and remained hospitalized in fair condition.
But Murray's attack was halted after he entered the church foyer. A security guard shot the gunman dead.
Murray, son of prominent metro-area neurologist Ronald S. Murray, lived at a house south of Cherry Creek Reservoir that was first searched before the second shooting Sunday.
This evening, Murray's uncle, Phil Abeyta, read a statement from the family whom he described as devout Christians.
The uncle expressed "the magnitude of our grief for the victims and families of this tragedy."
"On behalf of our family and our son, we ask for forgiveness," said Abeyta, adding that the Murray family is fully cooperating with police investigators. "We cannot understand why this has happened. We ask for prayers for the victims and their families during this time of grief."
Police agencies first arrived at the Murray home in the 10900 block of East Berry Place before noon Sunday and searched until before dawn today, Arapahoe County Sheriff Grayson Robinson said.
Robinson confirmed that his agency's bomb squad also was dispatched to the home about 7:15 Sunday night. He said his agency was supporting Arvada and Colorado Springs police who were executing a search warrant at the house.
Several smoke bombs were found at the scene of the second shooting at New Life Church, Colorado Springs Police Chief Richard Myers said.
Robinson said deputies initially arrived at the home after the first shooting, which occurred at 12:30 a.m. Sunday at the Youth With a Mission center in Arvada, but before the second shooting occurred after 1 p.m. outside the Colorado Springs church.
Police were seen taking several boxes of items from the Murrays' home.
Murray's neighbors described Matthew as a recluse.
Robinson referred questions about the search and what was seized to Arvada and Colorado Springs police.
Ronald Murray's Lone Tree medical office was closed this morning.
"Dr. Murray's office is closed and he will not be available until further notice," a phone recording said.
If you are acquainted with Matthew J. Murray, or have photographs of him to share with the Rocky, please contact metro@rockymountainnews.com
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December 10, 2007
1:48 p.m.
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RUkiddingme writes:
Of course they're related. They were searching this man's home after the shootings in Arvada, then he winds up dead in the Colorado Springs shootings. What kind of reporting is this?
December 10, 2007
3:09 p.m.
Steph writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
December 10, 2007
3:28 p.m.
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Steph writes:
I didn't mean to say that the people killed were responsible or karmic. I just think that the christian right has pissed off so many people that they were an easy target for this guy to be angry at.
December 10, 2007
3:30 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
To think this kid's father and the skill the Lord blessed him with no doubt saved many. The sorrow he now must carry and the scorn of society after doing so much for so many. Twenty bucks says the people his kid shot/ killed will forgive him because God is the centerpiece of thier lives. Society however, is going to condemn him forever. This doctor didn't deserve this, no more than the victims of his son's heinous crime. It is truly a sad day when this doctor saved so many with a God given talent. Be glad it was God's people who were shot, the Lord's people will forgive even when society won't. Man, that's faith. Society's vengence is hell to carry.
December 10, 2007
3:44 p.m.
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an_artist writes:
steph,
seriously... no one deserves to get shot and killed, i don't care what organization, religion or whatever else you believe in or subscribe to. there is NO justification for this whatsoever. people are entitled to believe in and express their opinions freely without fear of retribution or punishment. this is the united states. you are insinuating that if christians would just shut up, they wouldn't get shot up while minding their own business at church. please. think before you write.
December 10, 2007
3:46 p.m.
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nellie writes:
I wonder why the boys were home schooled?
December 10, 2007
3:46 p.m.
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Alive writes:
Steph,
If the Christians got this for pissing people off, just think what the Muslims have coming! But perhaps they don't shove their religion down people's throat like them mean 'ol Christians. They just simply place it there after the beheading...
December 10, 2007
3:47 p.m.
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coloradoismyhome writes:
Payback? I agree with some of your previous comments but Steph why do you hate all Christians because of the actions of the far right? This was a tragedy that includes Christanity. Does it make you happy that these kids died? Not all Christians fit the mold you are using. Some of us even vote non-republican and (gasp!) disagree with the far right. You might try compassion instead.
December 10, 2007
3:49 p.m.
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Usually_Quiet writes:
I agree the Christian right has angered many people, but anger never makes it ok to turn a gun on innocent bystanders.
There are a lot of questions that remain unanswered. I agree w/RUkiddingme, there is a connection. Did anyone see the streaming press conference from the New Life Church last evening around 5:45pm? The pastor made a comment that intrigued me, "We followed the plan we had in place for this type of incident"... or something similiar. It sort of shook me up...a church where peace and harmony are paramount had a "shooter" plan.
Then I think in one of the many articles going around there was mention of "stepped up security" and the last time I was in church, granted it was a while back, plainclothes police officers did not carry guns. Heck the hospital I worked at only had a Barney Fife like guy for overnights.
Just some things to consider OR maybe before any of this happened someone could have reached this young man and prevented the whole thing.
December 10, 2007
3:51 p.m.
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Quagmate writes:
Killing people for what they beleive is inexcusable, unless they are trying to kill you. This is by definition a "hate" crime and to look at it like "they had it coming" is disturbing to read in these comments.
If the shooter had targeted gays or athiests or even Islamics, would anyone say it was because the victims had pissed so many people off? I doubt it.
December 10, 2007
3:58 p.m.
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Alive writes:
Nobody understands you do they Steph? All those grownups always spoilin' the fun. And now they fail to see why Christians are evil when you can see it so clearly.
Perhaps one day we will see the world for what it is, but for now us dumb 'ol righties just refuse see what's important in life. You know, stuff like a cute pair of shoes.
December 10, 2007
3:59 p.m.
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blacksho89 writes:
Steph, seriously:
Put your comments back in 1968 Birmingham:
"Them little girls got blowd up because them uppity (pick your epithets) is pissing people off".
Who else is it understandable to shoot in your world? Fat people? Vegetarians?
December 10, 2007
4 p.m.
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MICKIE writes:
STEPH,
GO HUG A TREE, YOU SEEM MORE CONCERNED WITH BASHING CHRISTIANS THAN WITH THE SADNESS OF LIFE LOST. GOD KNOWS YOUR HEART FEAR GOD NOT THOSE TRYING TO SPREAD THE WORD / WORKS THAT THESE YOUNG MISSIONARIES WERE TRYING TO DO. WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU GOT OUT OF YOUR ROOM WHERE YOUR COMPUTER IS AND HELPED OTHERS AS THEY WERE LEARNING TO DO?
December 10, 2007
4:07 p.m.
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GrayOwl writes:
In Colorado, as well as the 49 other states, everyone is entitled to practice the religion of his or her choice, or none at all. But no one is entitled to murder those who choose to practice a particular religion, or those who choose to practice none at all. Defense of a man who murdered because he hated a particular group? Well, in America, even that is a right. Though it also is a Wrong, in a sense of the word.
December 10, 2007
4:27 p.m.
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bankerrock writes:
I guess I do not understand where Steph's comment comes from...it clearly states in the article that the suspect in question was at one time expelled from a program employed by both religious institutions he targeted with his attacks. With that in mind, the debate over his view of Christianity and like or dislike of the religion seems to hold very little relevance. Some may even infer that the suspect was at one time interested in becoming a missionary.
My question of the entire incident pertains to the timing. Why did he do this now and not three years previous when he was booted from the porgram?
December 10, 2007
4:29 p.m.
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bankerrock writes:
Please excuse my typo in the last sentence (porgram for program).
December 10, 2007
4:37 p.m.
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Lorraine writes:
For those of us in the neighborhood, it was clear from the beginning that the shooter must have had some connection to the ministry. It's not in a location that a stranger could see it and know what it is while driving by.
I'm relieved that it's the same person and not a copycat crime. The fewer violent disturbed people in the area, the better and now I know that there's not a gunman running around the neighborhood.
I do not understand the anger towards Christians. They preach peace, not beheadings. And I'm a non-believer (I don't use 'atheist', that seems to be a religion of it's own). If you don't like what they say, don't listen. As for me, I'll be singing Christmas carols and enjoying the season.
This young man was obviously not doing well in his life and ended up focusing on the rejection from the ministry as the source of all his ills. No one can predict that an event from 3 years ago would come back and haunt them like that. If it was rational, we would all be able to understand.
My thoughts are with the victims and their families and the family of Matthew Murray. Bad things can happen to good people.
PS: nellie, I hope you're not implying that people who homeschool are deviants of some sort. They are just people who are dissatisfied with the lack of quality education in the public schools or people who don't approve of the liberal message in the schools. I'd homeschool in a heartbeat if I didn't have to work full-time.
December 10, 2007
4:38 p.m.
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SXC writes:
mindfulness perhaps? if those who knew this shooter were "aware"
of his feelings...............is it worth a shot( no pun intended) to try to understand that this guy may have felt abandoned. Louie, (from above) maybe the Dr was skilled as a Dr and not as a father...........
December 10, 2007
4:43 p.m.
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MikeZ writes:
I'm an atheist myself (or an agnostic leaning heavily in the atheist direction), but Steph clearly hates the religious right more than she hates murderous psychopaths. Such is the attitude of the modern left.
December 10, 2007
4:45 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
How could you try to justify this act with Christians forcing "Religion" on you? First of all the mission of a Christian is to share the Good News with a dying, decaying and lost world. They had already given their life therefor no one could take it away. They died with faith and belief in what they were doing and in an omnipotent and omniscient God. Not bashing others for wanting to make a difference. Perhaps you should seek out the reason why anyone sharing the magnificance of God's grace, would have to shove it down your throat in the first place. It is yours to accept or deny. It's called free will wich God gave you in the first place so it is'nt our calling to force you to beleive anything. Sharing because he says to love one another is the motivation.
December 10, 2007
5:09 p.m.
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Wolfgang writes:
This is unbelievable.
When the kid in Omaha shot up the mall, I didn't see anyone pointing the finger of blame at malls or at business. But when something happens in a church, suddenly it's the fault of churches and religion.
I'm not particularly religious, but I have nothing against religion either. It looks like some folks here are so rabidly anti-religion, they're just looking for any excuse to get angry and start bashing away.
It's no wonder churches are starting to have security.
December 10, 2007
5:32 p.m.
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Alive writes:
That's what their aging hippie professors teach these kids today. These social rejects from the sixties have finally found a way to spread their hate in a very efficient way. Directly into the brains of this lost generation.
The Christians are now the bad guys and murdering Muslim scum are the good guys. Criminals are just "misunderstood" and never growing up just like Peter Pan is considered honorable.
Welcome to this B science fiction movie brought to you by leftist whack jobs that never seem to brush their teeth.
Makes Soylent Green look like a walk in the park huh?
December 10, 2007
6:13 p.m.
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Que writes:
Godsouljah - Here is where you went off the tracks "first of all the mission of a Christian is to share the Good News with a dying, decaying and lost world." I don't want your "good news" shared with me. I don't want the moral decisions that stem from your "good news" imposed on me. What you see as "good news" to a dying, decaying a lost world is to me spouting and imposing (thanks to the Christian far right) your outdated and archaic believes in the supernatural/hocus pocus/magic on me.
But.. freedom of speech and freedom of religion are core principles of this nation of ours. Want to hear my "good news" about free will, living your life on and for your own moral code and how we're entering an age of enlightenment where we don't believe in archaic constructs inventing by people living in caves and used to oppress the masses? You know, one where you accept that there is no god (note the little g) and that you must live life by your own moral code - one that is often times stricter and better for society than the hypocrisy of the Christian right?
Didn't think so. Back to the matter at hand. No one deserves to suffer this tragedy - Christian right, Muslims or Atheists. To be targeted due to you religious beliefs (or lack thereof) is wrong... even if it is from one of your own flock. My heart goes out to these people.
December 10, 2007
6:53 p.m.
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GeneralDissaray writes:
Christians gone wild.Dont be afraid,Be very afraid.
December 10, 2007
7:01 p.m.
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GeneralDissaray writes:
all parties involved were christians
December 10, 2007
7:20 p.m.
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olsonmt writes:
Living by their own personal moral code... that's exactly what I would say these shooters are doing.
December 10, 2007
7:21 p.m.
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olsonmt writes:
By these shooters I mean New Life, Omaha, VT, and the sad list goes on and on.
December 10, 2007
7:47 p.m.
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Sixtysixdeuce writes:
"Posted by Usually_Quiet: Did anyone see the streaming press conference from the New Life Church last evening around 5:45pm? The pastor made a comment that intrigued me, "We followed the plan we had in place for this type of incident"... or something similiar. It sort of shook me up...a church where peace and harmony are paramount had a "shooter" plan."
New Life is a huge congregation, and if you care to do the research, they detail exactly why they have a security team. On that note, the security team is 100% volunteer, composed of memebers of the church. They are not hired professionals. Some of them have concealed weapon permits (CCW) and choose to carry. Had Jeanne Assam not chosen to be armed and chosen to put her own life on the line, many more likely would have been killed or wounded. She is a hero, people. She no doubt would have done the same for any of you if the shooter had targeted another location where you and her had both been.
It matters not that a church is a place of peace and worship; they are still vulnerable to the evil acts of violent people. Fortunately, because of Jeanne and others like her, New life was not a soft target like the mall in Omaha, NE.
Stop trying to make this about religion. This is about a very brave lady who protected people from a very disturbed and violent individual.
It also reinforces another point; when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Had there not been CIVILIANS carrying personal arms, this would have been a tradgedy of much greater magnitude. Take responsibility for your own personal safety, folks!
December 10, 2007
7:55 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Ms. Steph, so I bow my knee to God, and the life of my child is my payback? Wow, I never realized the price of my belief was so high. If a child is brutally murdered, doesn't all of society pay a price? Does it matter what belief a child holds in thier heart, is it still not a child worthy of the liberty of choice? I am forced everyday to accept others who oppose my belief, and now the ante is raised to the price of our children? Steph, what did we as christians ever do to you? Did we oppose your belief to such an extent you can't feel the pain of a child's death?
December 10, 2007
8:18 p.m.
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snowbelly writes:
lets stop with the boxing egos and get back to the subject.
Matt murray was a dylan and aaron worshipper who has gained infamy with the "im a goth who has been bruised by christians" crowd.These paranoid idiots have to have someone to hate and fear whether it's christians,muslims, jews, or communists or masons.These poor social failures always blame the victim.Matt Murray, the new poster boy for concealed carry.and yes i'll get a gun too.
December 10, 2007
8:23 p.m.
Alive writes:
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
December 10, 2007
8:26 p.m.
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RockyMtnMan writes:
All people take on the name of a certain group of people, or are classified by others as being part of a like-minded group, concerning religious or non-religious beliefs. We have to remember that what one does as an individual, or as a small sub-group of radicals, is not necessarily the teachings (or moral beliefs) of an entire group. My thoughts and prayers are with the families of those affected by this terrible act of selfishness.
December 10, 2007
9:05 p.m.
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Minnesota1950 writes:
Has anyone been able to read the search warrant for Murray's car? The link in the article contains a file with an extension of JOPG? Can anyone help me with this? It's a document so I doubt it is a JPEG?
Thanks in advance and Happy Holidays in spite of all these sad events.
Minnesota1950
December 10, 2007
11:28 p.m.
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ramblinrose writes:
Let's not pay attention to what Steph said or for that matter listen or give credit to any opinions (yes, including this one!). That is simply all they are, opinions. We can still remain respectful to her by allowing her an opinion without a brow beating. More importantly, let us hold focus and bring love, forgiveness and compassion whether Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindi or Atheist to all folks. But especially to those grieving families who lost loved ones. Ever had a family member murdered?! It is Murder! I guarantee you it is the day you feel all of your life simply leave your body and you wonder if it was you that actually died and not your loved one. That's before the actual pain comes! It is obvious lack of Tolerance is one of the motivating factors of the exhausting debate between left and right camps of thoughts but particularly for Matthew himself. Cutting people down, showing disrespect in fact supports his actions and gives strength to his behavior. Steph obviously feels mistreated so then we cut her down...seems that might have been the very path Matthew found himself on..."we got to let love rule!" Not shove our our brand of "love" or our opinions down others folks throat. Do I like what she said? no I found it a bit cruel...but God Bless America, where we still have Freedom of Speech!
December 10, 2007
11:34 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
"as we forgive those who trespass against us...", mere words or the power to do what society is unable to do? These people as victims, practicing a archiac hocus pocus belief in the supernatual, of a lower moral standard than the free will society they live in, steeped in hypocrisy, are going to forgive the killer of thier children, embrace and welcome the family of the killer, and do something society as a whole can't even fathom. What a foolish group of people they must be, to not only forgive but extend thier love to the grieving family of thier childrens killer. Lose your child in such a manner are you capable of this? How many of us can walk the walk?
December 11, 2007
12:41 a.m.
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analytixman writes:
This thread needs to get back on target of the issue at hand....
Nice shooting Jamie ASSAM! Thank who you want, you just saved the taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars defending and prosecuting this nut job.
Enough is enough. When the hunted are better armed and better shots than these mental cases who commit these hate crimes, maybe some copycat crimes will be avoided.
shoot first and ask questions later!
December 11, 2007
8:35 a.m.
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CrestwoodTexan writes:
"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me." Matthew 5:11
But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God- having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
2 Timothy 3:1-5
Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
Ephesians 4:32
December 11, 2007
12:55 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
That is the problem with todays society. Always trying to religify everything. I'm not speaking of religion I'm speaking of the Creator and Father of all mankind. Atheism is just basiclly saying you are too lazy and it's too hard to try and live by something bigger than your ignorant self. It's not for anyone to tell you how to live. And by the way My Good News is that God sees beyond your sin and shortcomings and still loves you, not because of who or what you are. But because of who HE is.. I could care less about far left or far right and all that political garbage. I'm talking about the hurt and decay that we see everyday allover the world. We will answer for our actions in the end. All I'm saying is that hating Christians is'nt going to get you anywhere for hate in itself is death. And besides what were they forcing on anyone? He came to ask them for a place to stay. Some of you are to smart for your own good.All I can do is pray for you. Because I'll answer for my own actions to my creator and if loving God is seen as bad to people who have no faith or belief at all. Then I know I'm on the right side. Jesus saves even when we don't deserve it. That's the Good News. Love conquers evil.
December 11, 2007
1:08 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
Que and generaldissaray have showed their ignorance on other issues on this site now. Such as rejoicing in the death of a 10 yr old girl.I'm passed the point of letting what you say affect me. I just really feel sorry for you guys because your opinions are always to disrespect others. It's obvious you must have a lot of hatred going on inside of you about a lot of things .Thus is the proof of the absence of THE ALMIGHTY FATHER in your life.
December 11, 2007
1:39 p.m.
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Mike Noe writes:
Spirited discussion on this topic is ongoing at RockyTalk Live.
Join in here:
http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/de...
December 11, 2007
1:55 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
I don't know about generaldissaray, but Que did make some pretty legitimate sense. Minus Que's religious belief (or lack thereof), he understand the senseless destruction of human life. Que grants you and I the right to believe as we choose, he actually defends it as a cornerstone of democracy. I can live with that. He is not ignorant, quite the contrary. I can attack his religious views, because I don't share them; but he recognizes my right to serve the Lord. That is honor, I have to respect that regardless of our differences. Calling him ignorant was wrong.
December 11, 2007
2:39 p.m.
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CrestwoodTexan writes:
My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires.
James 1:19-20
If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.
1 Peter 4:14
First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."
2 Peter 3:3-4
.....with the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:8-9
December 11, 2007
3 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
CrestwoodTexan, you are cool with me. It's hard to pick a fight with the word of God. Let me ask you, where's Crestwood? I was busted by the Ranger's as a kid in a little town called Van Horn; them boy's kicked me to sleep!
December 11, 2007
3:49 p.m.
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ONEman writes:
I've become aquainted with his and generals ignorance from a prior subject. Not because of what he said on here. Actually his last statement did surprise me a little. Did'nt think he had anything positive to bring to the table. I'll give him a little credit for at least being respectful on this matter.
December 11, 2007
4:47 p.m.
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CrestwoodTexan writes:
LOUIE:
I do not live in Crestwood, I serve my Lord at Crestwood.
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12
December 11, 2007
8:31 p.m.
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TheEdge writes:
I agree that this was a senseless tragedy and I feel for the families of these victims. I was puzzled by the many who commented that “Christians have never done anything”. Can they really believe they are above the mistakes and repercussions of this world? I do not seek to bash Christians, but, are we not all guilty of wrongdoing and imperfection? Even the Bible makes this ascertain. Christians should not become complacent in their self-esteem. Christians are often blind to the wrongs they commit because they assume they are “good people’ and routinely attend church. It would serve the Christian community well to examine their own sins on a weekly basis.
December 12, 2007
12:07 a.m.
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ONEman writes:
A true man of God knows that if he judges he puts himself in a place to be judged. Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord. Even the most righteous are but filthy rags before him. I don't try to push off my beliefs on others. But I have free speech also and I don't like when fools try and take a group of people and try and fit them all in a nice neat little box and say they are all the same.This is the same issue I had with these two narrow minded individuals before. Let people have the right to be who they feel they should be and don't judge unless you've walked in their shoes that goes for Christians also. Free speech applies to all, not just those who use it as a crutch to spread negativity and hate.So at the same time I'm not going to let you bash GOD or the people who serve him honorably.Especially when every Man in my family including myself served this country for 7 generations so you could have the right to speak your mind.I know where I stand as a man and what my true intentions are. The issue is that your mind is too shallow to appreciate something bigger that yourself. If there is no GOD why does everything this country holds dear acknowledge him. From the money you spend to the constitution you lean on. IN GOD WE TRUST. If you don't then why do you sit under our flag? One nation under who? GOD with liberty and justice for all. Love it or leave it.
December 12, 2007
8:13 a.m.
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CrestwoodTexan writes:
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves.
2 Corinthians 12:5a
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word has no place in our lives.
1 John 1:8-10
December 12, 2007
1:35 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
I want to express my gratitude to the contributors on these side sites for some very enlightening comments; most of all, my sincere thanks for the civilty shown. Rocky Talk Live is one of the most negative attack sites I've ever witnessed or read. Thank you so very much, I learned quite a bit on these little side sites!
December 12, 2007
1:43 p.m.
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LOUIE writes:
Minoe, thank you for the offer. These little side site are not only enlightening, fun, and the bantering quite tame, it is so much more civil. Rocky Talk Live is extremely negative. Here people disagree, argue, but it's done in a much more respectful manner. On that note, I want to thank those who contribute to these side sites, I not only enjoyed yiur comments, I learned things as well. Thank you so very much!
December 13, 2007
4:57 a.m.
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Friend writes:
Will all of you religious people just shut up if you can't stay on topic? I'm sure that there are religious chat rooms where you can banter that nonsense with eachother all day long. If you stop thumping your bible and reread the article, you will see that the ISSUE here is about a violent kid who murdered people and his family issuing an apology for the kid's actions. With all due respect to the family, who is feeling terribly guilty, sending Uncle Phil Abeyta out to make an apology for your failure to supervise your kid while he collected an arsenol of weapons at home is disingenuine and superficial at best. Just shut up. We don't want to hear it. You raised and harbored a murderer. Only the immediate family could have prevented this tragedy but they were too busy being a famous neurologist (the dad) and indulging in religious mumbo-jumbo bordering on cultism (the mom). These blind parents are criminally and civilly liable for these murders. Chances are that they knew about their kid's violent tendencies and intentions but rather than taking action they avoided confronting him or tried to pray it away. What idiots. I hope the victims' families nail these people in every possible way. We need to send a strong message to ALL parents that it is their responsibility to raise their kids and stop the bad apples from putting the rest of us at risk.
December 15, 2007
4:16 p.m.
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ErnestR writes:
Perhaps I missed it, but I did not see any mention in any news coverage that Matthew Murray, like Omaha Mall Shooter Robert Hawkins, Columbine's Eric Harris and virtually every other school/mall/church/college mass murderer had been taking antidepressants which would certainly be a relevant factor as to his state of mind and behavior. Antidepressants all have FDA-mandated Black Box labels now warning that they can cause suicide and violent actions.
Much of what Matthew Murray posted on the Internet has been taken off now. One site has collected as much of his postings as they could. It is located at
http://allspinzone.com/wp/2007/12/11/...
Posting under the name "nghtmrchld26" on 10/1/07 titled "Re: Drowning in despair..." Murray says in response to questions like "Have you seen a therapist?" "Have you tried medications?"
"Guess what? Believe it or not.....I'VE TRIED ALL THAT
People then usually assume that I only tried prozac (or some other drug) for two days and got upset that it didn't "work" and they say "oh well, you need to give it more that a couple of days to work"....I don't know how 8 months is only a few days...but maybe you f***ers who can only come up with lame ass answers need a good ass kicking. These lamers will also say "well maybe try a different therapist? or "just......keep trying"
So for eight months of Murray's life just before going on a killing spree, by his own words, he was getting counseling and taking "Prozac or some other drug" yet no mention of this in the press as far as I can see. This looks like a huge gaping hole in the coverage. I hear Fox News is doing a show this Sunday on this subject.